Interesting thread and some decent advice. I hate boardwalks,drop-offs and steep downhill stuff,but I do ride 'em. That boarwalk at cannock does my head in,i've rode off the edge of it twice(uninjured).
Stuff that I have "bottled" in a group ride,I will return to later and ride it on my own. Don't know why it works,but it does.
If you don't like SPDs,get rid(I like 'em and use nowt else).Try to stay relaxed on the bike and enjoy yourself.
Good luck.

I'm local-ish to Sherwood Pines and Cannock Chase. I think I'll try to get to Sherwood more often – I think it's a lot 'flowier' than Cannock – and there are no planks!! 😉

The 'Downhill' sections at Sherwood Pines are quite good for practicing your skills on drops etc.

Have to say I strongly disagree – that's going into it with a very negative attitude – expecting to fail and is exactly what the OP is having trouble with. She is equating riding with falling and getting hurt.

that's the whole point. You WILL FAIL at some point. YOU WILL FALL OFF, and the sooner you accept it, do it, and learn to deal with it, the better. If it all goes wrong, what's better? Crash, go down with the bike and hurt yourself on it, or chuck it the other way and just have the floor to deal with?

If you'd ever ridden BMX, you'd know what I mean!

Flats, hardtail, lots of practice. It works.

All taken on board – thanks again 🙂

I must admit, when I tried 'the plank' again at Cannock, I was ready for it and bailed the bike when I crashed. I was far less bruised than the first time. Although I've found getting off and walking over it has been working for me since… 😉

Getting off and walking is good. Sometimes it's good to try and push yourself to see what you can ride, but if you're really not that happy riding it, then don't, as you will tense up and possibly fall off. I'm sure I would never have ridden that plank on my first mtb ride.

I was a reasonably confident rider, but I broke my arm at Sherwood Pines back in June, I did my first off road riding since then the other evening and I was incredibly nervous, so much so that I really didn't enjoy myself.

Without wishing to sound like the old fogey that I really am, I seriously regret not going on skills courses when I started out. I honestly believe it would have made a huge difference to my confidence.

Now I just pootle round, hanging on for dear life … except for this evening when I got up close and personal with the ground and broke my bloomin' carbon brake lever 👿

A positive mental attitude helps so perhaps ditch the negative thoughts?

I can see why! Good for you for getting back on the bike, I hope it gets better for you

Ooh dear! At least it's your brake lever and not you that's broken! Bike bits can be replaced 🙂

I know my mental attitude is half the problem, I'm very strong minded – unfortunately my brain seems to use it for evil instead of good!

I am trying to have a more positive attitude, that's why I'm determined to make myself keep going out there – hopefully I'll win out in the end!

P.s. Is it weird that my next bike is going to be a fixed hack bike for commuting/pootling around town?!

Am I mad, or do we think it will help my bike skills/confidence ❓

There are several of us on here that shout "RUBBISH" at those macho idiots who say you have to learn to fall off and enjoy it.

RUBBISH I cry!

Falling off means you failed – smooth clean ride without falling is a success. Don't push yourself too hard – you won't enjoy it. Don't think you have to try to keep up with the experienced lads – you don't. The key thing is not speed or scars or how fast you go – they key thing is to enjoy it.

For sure to progress is good and the first time you ride a section you have previously found impossible is great – but build up slowly. Don't be suckered by macho bullshine

(and yes – I am still slowly progressing my riding even at my age (48) and without falling off – it hurts and knocks your confidence)

I do try not to fall off wherever possible 😉

I can see where people are coming from with the whole 'be ready for it and bail the bike' thing, but I'm not planning to voluntarily hit the deck anytime soon. It hurts! And I like my skin, it keeps everything inside!

I did have a stationary crash outside the Leisure Centre

Seriously, go into a bike shop and ask for multi-release cleats. The stationary crashes won't happen with multi release cleats – especially if you slacken off the tension on your pedals a turn.

good post, my wife has the same trouble.

She started off on flats, and was fine, but since she has moved to spds, has become really nervy.
She is now padded up (after several painful falls, which has left behind some scars), but is still nervy, and I think (personally) that the point comes down to when she is riding slow almost stationary (uphill over rocks sort of thing) that she starts to panic about not being able to release her foot.

Two things.

Firstly. If she was wearing flats, she would be able to ride it, so it's a confidence thing with the spds (and that takes time)

Secondly. I think she (my wife) needs to learn to Track stand (once baby is born she'll be back out on the bike), so when she comes to lights, rocks, roots or anything that will stop her, she can control the bike, and if necessary, release and put her foot down without panicking.

Most important thing, is to have fun, and enjoy being out there.

Curly girl – don't worry too much about the pedals thing, thats a side issue, it's confidence, technique and fitness, you need to build up.

I look at stuff now that I used to find terrifying 7/8 years ago when I started biking, and don't even blink.

And, if anybody hasn't said it, speed really is your friend and the faster you go the more you float over stuff, but again that is confidence and as you get that both will come at once.

Stick in !

CG not had time to read through every post but it looks there is a lot of useful advice. When you say you have tried skills courses that did not help.. was any of these at Coed Llandegla, if not ask them, they also run women only rides that might provide both the incentive, lack of pressure and helpful advice that will see you crest your fear.. http://www.coedllandelga.com 01978 751656

remember it is all about gravity, everything drops down and it helps you, your bike will go down anything you throw it off, all we try to do is ensure there remains a modicum of directional control and style, whilst to everyone else it might look like we are about to have a nasty crash:)

I was pretty scared when I started riding a couple of years back – my first proper off road ride was an 'easy' loop of the peaks with Suicide Break, Winnie Tor and the biggest boulders I had ever (at that time) seen. Scared the bejebus outta me, but it didn't take too long until I became pretty fearless and started throwing myself down most stuff. Crashing was all part of the fun and I was always falling off in spectacular style.

However, since getting injured last year it has sent me backwards in terms of confidence and I'm in a similar place to you where I am seeing the 'worst potential outcome' and I have an acute fear of falling on some trails. I'm still forcing myself to ride the scary stuff, but I'm also having hypnotherapy to deal with the fear issues of crashing again (partly because they affect my job as well as cycling). I'll let you know if it works – changing the way you think may be the key to changing the way you ride. It's definitely easy to fall into a nasty pattern of negative thinking, but so hard to drag yourself back out of it! 🙂

I'm hoping that soon I'll be at that lovely point of being able to throw myself down everything again and fall off as regularly as I used to.

Accept that falling off is part of riding and you'll get more comfortable less tense and ride better (you don't enjoy falling but makes successful attempts so much better)
Leaving bike at home or selling it if you ride less stuff is not falling off but not really a success!

BUT, you need to learn in the first place to control/unweight the bike properly without having your feet attached to the pedals, you shouldn't feel out of control with flats its all because your not controlling the bike properly, don't blame the pedals

Do not and never have understood this statement

What feenster says

Have been riding for over 20yrs.

I ride with guys who are probably way more skilfull than me re jumping/bunnyhoping/wheelying etc BUT they all fall off more than I do and are generally a lot slower than me anyway. If I am behind and they start all this wheelying/bunnyhoping I just end up blasting past them. Looks good but is way slower. ime ofcourse….I am more a wheels on the ground type of rider. Learn to control the bike first, jumping is only for those that want to, not a must do. I am in the dont/wont/cant category.

Trekster, i wasn't having a go, i'm just trying to get through how to be a skillful mtb'er the basics of bike control need to be learned first without the aid of clipless pedals and suspension.

Yes if you are just manualing/bunnyhopping/jumping down a trail for no reason then of course it will be slower 🙄 (good fun tho!).
BUT to descend in a smooth and fast manner on any half technical trail all these skills need to be employed.

So during your riding you've never had to; get your front wheel up? roll off the end of a log? drop off a small rock (even as small as a few inch)? ride over some wet roots? ride through a rock garden? gotten some air, even accidentally?
All these stem from the basic skills of manuals, bunnyhops, unweighting and jumping, fact.
I don't understand how people say they can ride downhill fast if they can't utilise these basics, unless of course its on a smooth non tech trail. Also trackstands are nice to practice as they teach you balance.

Now clipless pedals lull you into thinking you are controlling the bike correctly, the unweighting should come from a down back and up movement on the pedals, not a straight pull up and bending of the knees as most spd users do.
To bunnyhop once the front wheel is in the air the height gained comes from the extending and pushing down of the arms (in effect creating a pivot point) then the unweighting of the rear as described above. When descending a tech trail this may only have to get the wheels a couple of inches off the ground, but it is, i would say, one of the most vital skills in riding downhill.

Maybe you should try riding with some faster riders on more challenging terrain and then you may start to understand the previous statement i made.

I also don't understand why it's of any relevance how long you've been riding either.
I've been riding 14 years, xc (yes with spd's 😯 ), DH , 26 " wheel trials and even had a dabble with a road bike for a bit.
Doesn't mean anything tho, i'm still willing to learn off people wether they've been riding for 6 months or 30 years.

All the best and hope to see you out on the trails sometime.

🙂

I really don't agree with ditching the spd's once you've already mastered them, as they are one of the biggest hurdles to overcome.

Also, so don't agree with the post knee opp advice from one poster regarding spd's.

I did write a detailed explanation to both the above, as I have experience (positive) of both, but STW shonky forum crapped out when I hit 'Send Post' and I haven't the patience right now to re-write it all again – maybe later if there is still interest in the thread.

Pete

Falling off means you failed – smooth clean ride without falling is a success.

TJ – But you will fail. YOU WILL FALL OFF NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY NOT TO.
Success could be riding really hard (For you) making some mistakes and learning for them. You can WALK round the trail with your bike and still trip over a root, FFS! If you go for every ride expecting it to be perfect and with no crashing, you'll soon give up. It's not macho, it just a fact. If you wanna learn, no matter how small the obstacle may be in the eyes of others then you've GOT TO step out of your own personal comfort zone (Like a wet root or a 6in step – If you've never done it, it's scary. You might crash), and that means getting it wrong sometimes. There's no getting away from it!
😀

The first ride I took MrsPP on had a fairly flat sandy lane on it, used by horses. She couldn't deal with the bike sliding around in the sand and nearly fell off several times, because she was fighting it, worried about falling off, and ended up a bag of nerves. She still doesn't like sandy trails, but she can ride them now and it's no drama. To me it was nothing, but she had to step out of her comfort zone. If you don't, you won't learn.
😀

PP –

Some of the posters on this thread were saying things like "learn to enjoy crashing" And " if you are not crashing your not trying" Utter tripe that is.

A fall is always a failure. Its months if not years since I had anything more than a low speed topple off the tandem. *touches wood* Still ride some black stuff occasionally tho and still slowly progressing

Falling off means you failed – smooth clean ride without falling is a success. Don't push yourself too hard – you won't enjoy it. Don't think you have to try to keep up with the experienced lads – you don't. The key thing is not speed or scars or how fast you go – they key thing is to enjoy it.

For sure to progress is good and the first time you ride a section you have previously found impossible is great – but build up slowly. Don't be suckered by macho bullshine

Well said!

Also, so don't agree with the post knee opp advice from one poster regarding spd's.

it was me that mentioned the SPD knee op 🙂

Haven't read all posts but responding to your original, I can sympathise as I'm currently lacking confidence myself in my riding. It does become a vicious circle where you back off because of lack of confidence, which causes you to hit corners/descents too slowly which actually makes them more difficult. For me my lack of fitness is part of the problem. When I'm fit and strong (particularly core strength) then it gives me confidence to really go for it. Not really thought about this before as I usually take it for granted, but if you can do a few gym sessions per week will really help – its something I intend to do over the winter as I come back from injury. Good luck 🙂

Tandem.
Crashing is definitely NOT failing, it is part and parcel of what we do, and yes it is a by product of trying hard, pushing yourself, and not just bumbling along well within your comfort zone…

Failing to me would be going out on the on the bike day after day and not improving, not pushing yourself, if your happy doing that then carry on.

At least if you have crashed it means you've had a damn good go at it, and as i said before, sometimes it hurts sometimes it doesn't.
I've currently been off the bike and off work for 2.5 months due to injury and the surgeon says I won't be able to ride full on dh until december, but hey thats the price we pay for what we do.

I love mountainbiking in all forms and the feeling of being alive you get when pushing it 100%, it must be the best legal high there is 😀 nobody else feel like this?
And as PP said, step out your comfort zone or you won't learn anything.

Also it's nothing to do with 'macho bullshine' either, hell i'm scared of spiders, not very macho is it 😆

Jackal – you miss the point.

You have just missed a whole summer riding from injury. I have never injured myself *touch wood*

I still push myself and go out of my comfort zone – just in small steps. I have seen several newbies push too hard and not enjoy themselves – being scared, falling and hurting yourself is no fun.

Crashing is always a fail – what else is it? You don't set out to crash do you

There is absolutly no need to be crashing all the time – you are simply pushing too hard if you are. Step back a bit from the edge and enjoy. Push yourself and stretch the limits but do it in small steps.

I still am progressing slowly – getting better all the time. I have no desire to hurt myself or miss a summers riding thru injury. In the last three years I have learnt to jump and have ridden some real black stuff and a DH course. I still don't like falling, I still don't fall very often, I still have never been injured in 30+ yrs off offroad biking

All this stuff about crashing being part of what we do is two things – macho bullshine and numpties making excuses for their incompetence and over eagerness.

Get real – remember who the OP is – a nervy woman not a wannabee DH racer

Falling off means you failed – smooth clean ride without falling is a success. Don't push yourself too hard – you won't enjoy it. Don't think you have to try to keep up with the experienced lads – you don't. The key thing is not speed or scars or how fast you go – they key thing is to enjoy it.

For sure to progress is good and the first time you ride a section you have previously found impossible is great – but build up slowly. Don't be suckered by macho bullshine

Well said!

Also, so don't agree with the post knee opp advice from one poster regarding spd's.

it was me that mentioned the SPD knee op 🙂

To expand a bit, I think the advice I was given was specific because of the exact nature of the injuries that I sustained. I trust the advice that the surgeon and his physio gave me, because of their experience with mountain biking/wintersports/footy/rugby knee and ankle injuries (& they've succesfully treated some of the real big names in the DH world).

I do still use SPD's on longer rides if they're on smooth & technically easy terrain, just because I find the rotational 'float' of SPD's is a bit easier on the knees. However, now I've built the mileage up, I can easily ride with flats for 3 or 4 hours without a hint of knee trouble.

The surgeon and his registrar groaned & laughed when I said how I'd injured me knee (crashed bike, went over bars and bounced down a rock chute whilst one foot still attached to SPD), it was a bit like 'oh, not another one'. Now, I'm not blaming the SPD for causing the crash – that was my own stupid fault for going way too fast and riding out of my technical limits – TBH, even if I had been on flats, I would have still picked up several injuries. However, it seems highly likely that I wouldn't have torn the ligaments and cartlidges that I did, because my foot wouldn't have been attached to a 27lb 'windmill'.

I'm gonna get flamed here, but I really do think SPD's let you get away with poor technique. If you're a racer who wants to extract as much power as poss. by being able to pull up on your pedals, fair enough. Personally, I think a lot of the SPD v Flats thing comes down to macho BS and snobbery..y'know…like a badge to mark you out as a 'serious' mountain biker. OK, you do feel instantly 'at one' with the bike, but once you get the knack of using flats, you'll be amazed at how locked onto the bike you can feel (& if I can learn the technique, anyone can!).

I've done the 'Beast of Hope Cross' descent a few times on flats without a hint of bouncing off the pedals – and because they force you to distribute your weight properly, then if/when you do use SPDs, your riding technique and grip will be miles better.

I know some of the routes that you mentioned you've ridden and, blimey, they are a bit strong for a beginner – so might explain the confidence dent. Sherwood Pines is ace for beginner friendly stuff – and me & my wife go there regularly – and if you know where to look there are some great little 'sessionable' sections – bit nicer than just bashing away on the red route with the World & his dog!

If you ever want to meet up with us, just drop me a PM. (we tend to go early on Sat mornings)

I agree bowglie – starting on SPD's let me ride like sh*te for a year….it was only once I changed to flats I began to really understand the importance of body and heel positioning, going with the bike and picking lines.

Still don't always get it right mind you, but flats have no doubt improved my riding no end, even though at the start I really missed the security of being clipped in to the bike.

Tandem.
Erm no i think you have missed the point somewhat.
Crashing is part and parcel of mountainbiking as are injuries, get over it.

Everytime we get on a bike we are taking a risk, being ignorant of this fact, and pussy footing around pretending your not going to at some point overstep the mark, as you are, is ridiculous.

Me, as well as several others on here were trying to point this out to the OP, not get some nonsensical reply from people such as yourself saying that this is 'RUBBISH' or 'macho bullshine'. Maybe you should be the one to 'get real'.
Excuses for numpties and incompetence? Hmm i do actually take offence to that comment, are you trying to make up for your incompetence then because you don't push it enough?

Not being afraid of crashing loosens you up on the bike, makes you more confident and enables you to enjoy riding more, fact. Nothing to do with being a 'wannabee DH racer' 😆

Hence the reason crashing is NOT failing, it is all part of riding 2 wheels off road.

TBH i don't crash alot, but when i do i don't get up and think 'damn i failed', i think 'hmm that smarted a little, what went wrong there' and then learn from it. Its called progression.

And yes your right i did miss a summers (if you can call it that) riding and 2 weeks in whistler and spending 3 weeks in hospital laid flat out is definitely not fun.
But as i said its the real risk we pay for what we do, of course we don't crash on purpose or have any desire to hurt ourselves.

All the best.

Sorry Jackal – you have proved my point. 8 months out injured is success is it?

You are right that fear of crashing and therefore tensing up is not helpfull but you are 100% wrong – crashing is not " part and parcel of mountainbiking as are injuries."

Take offense all you want. I have been riding since before you were born I bet. I push it as much as I want – as I said riding real black ( laggan) on occasion and jumpoing – even on the tandem.

I simply don't like getting hurt. I have zero desire to emulate you.

MNountainbiking is a broad church and there is room for all – but to tell a nervy newbie that they need to nbe crashing to be rinding properly is simply wrong.

Curly_Girl, just to pick up on what you were saying about imagining the worst case scenario, it doesn't have to be that way. Visualising yourself doing things successfully is a really important part of mountain biking and life in general.

From what you're saying it seems like you have a bit of riding under your belt, some amusing war stories and are fast getting to the stage where your average trail centre or XC route will present you with few problems.

If you're nervous about trying something for the first time, there's no shame in stopping and checking it out, or walking a section first. You can even lower your bike over a drop-off to check whether your chainrings will clear the lip. Assess stuff but from a positive viewpoint, e.g. "my front wheel only needs to drop a couple of inches and then I'll be rolling it" or "I can ride along a piece of singletrack this width without going off the edge, so why am I worrying about this boardwalk?".

As other people have said, don't be afraid of crashing – the more relaxed you are, the better you're able to manage the situation (e.g. by jumping off the bike instead of going down with the ship!) and the less likely you are to hurt yourself.

You need to listen to the rational part of your mind, the one that's just seen your riding buddies succesfully clean something that you're scared of doing, and tell yourself "If they can do it, why not me?". 🙂

Quite an experienced rider myself, When I tried spd's I wouldn't leave the fireroads!

Just ride what you can and enjoy it. Try different rides/ solo/ group etc to see where your preferences lie. Do not be dishearted if you don't enjoy an aspect. Just try something else you feel comfortable with.

Erm tandem at what point did i say she SHOULD be crashing?
You shouldn't 'aim' to crash, it's just at some point you will and be prepared for it.

I'm sorry but yes get used to crashing, embrace it, laugh about it, sometimes it hurts sometimes it doesn't!

That is what i said in my first post, and i'll stand by that and say that is good advice, because when it does go wrong she'll realise its not just herself that it happens to, realise its not that serious, and get on with it without denting her confidence too much.

How long you have ridden for is irrelevant, so has 'i have been riding before you were born i bet', grow up 🙄

I've been riding and racing 'proper' mtb for 14 years, everything from xc to dh to trials. So you've been riding for over twice as long as i have, does that make you 2x a better rider than me? somehow i very much doubt it, as i said years riding is irrelevant.

Carry on bumbling for the next 30 years along in your little 'comfort zone' protected bubble pretending that your 'pushing it' down your 'black run', but please DO NOT try and tell somebody new to the sport that they are not going to crash, the sooner they get used to that fact the better and more confident thay will become.

I will of been out of riding for 3 months, full on dh 6 months, no its not a success but definitely NOT a failure, i'll learn from it and come out of it a better stronger rider, all of that OT and no use to this thread.

Tandem, if you can't say something in relation to the OP then don't say anything.

All i have to say on the matter.
😀

Re: crashing. I guess peoples attitudes to crashing is largely down to perspective. Those of us who are self-employed and/or don't have the luxury of paid sick leave, have mortagages, family/business commitments are bound to have a different perspective to, say, a 20 year old student or a sponsored pro DH rider.

Although one could argue that taking the odd tumble is inevitable, there's obviously a lot of difference between a slow speed tumble and a higher speed 'off'. Suppose it's one of those things that you've got to be realistic MIGHT happen, but you can do a lot of things (as lots of people have suggested) to minimise the risk off coming off in the first place.

Anyway, if you've got a fairly stressful job, the last thing you might want to do at the weekend is push yourself mentally riding a bike! If you just want to 'bumble' around enjoying yourself, so what, there's no crime in that. The more time you spend on your bike, the better you'll get at riding it – wouldn't worry about all this 'pushing yourself' lark, just enjoy yourself.

Jackal – we are slightly at cross purposes here.

However there is no need for you to be so offensive or defensive. I simply disagree with you and think that your attitude to crashing is wrong – you think mine is. Its a broad church.

I do not stay "bumbling for the next 30 years along in your little 'comfort zone' protected bubble pretending that your 'pushing it' down your 'black run'," ridden laggan black '/ airs rock have you? right out of my comfort zone I was there 🙂 Same with carn mor ban.

And I did not say to the OP that she is not going to crash – just not to push herself as hard as some folk were advising her. Crashing simply means you got it wrong – you can push yourself and your limits without crashing.

you can do a lot of things (as lots of people have suggested) to minimise the risk off coming off in the first place.

Like sitting at home on the sofa. 😉

Tandem.

I think maybe you were the one whom started the 'offensive', basically you stated 'i'm a numpty and i was making excuses for my incompetence and over eagerness'.
No excuses or incompetence here i'm afraid, maybe a little over eagerness, but hey, we all get a little over excited from time to time eh.

I simply disagree with you and think that your attitude to crashing is wrong – you think mine is. Its a broad church.

Yep, true, hugs all round 😉
Its all bikes and all enjoyment.

😀

Hey Jackal & TJ, settle, you're going to scare the OP 😉

You're both differenet kinds of riders coming at it from different places, neither right, neither wrong, one is on the edge, the other is in the comfort zone.

Forgive me for saying, but I think you both represent the polar extremes of mountainbikers, which I guess is good, cos it will let the OP see where she sits on that scale.

Enjoying riding is success not enjoying it is fail, different riders need different things to get their buzz.

But I do think that TJ's attitude and approach is much closer to where the OP is coming from, and is going to insipre her and give her confidence more that Jackals – talking about hospitalisation is just NOT what this girl needs to hear.

bowglie, how tight do you/did you have your spd's!?

My first experience was buying a bike fitted with spd's from my cr@p LBS (I won't mention the name, it does have the worst reputation in the SE). The pedals were set up so tight, and the cleats weren't even the same brand as the pedals! Anyway, I crashed and literally couldn't realease my foot, I had to remove my shoes with them still atchached to the bike, and by hand wrench them round until they released. Needless to say I hated spd's from then on. It took nearly five years to return after trying, Time, and other pedals almost giving up, until I went back to spd's once again. This time using Shimano, with the multi-release cleats, and the tension backed off as far as possible. And the cleats set correctly for my knee ailments, hey presto – I love em, no knee probs at all. Of course, once I wore out the multi cleats, I bought standard one's and all's been great for the last five years. I have to buy shoes with no insole bias though, and I set the cleats at the same slight angle with every new pair of shoes. It took five years of trial and error to get there – I wouldn't go back to flats.

CurlyGurl,

I think you might have brushed past a possible way forward in one of your earlier posts!

Why not have a few drinks before/during each ride?

Pre-ride drinks are a bit more socially acceptable if you go riding after lunch, but if not, you always can slip a little of what you fancy in the Camelbak – a nice bottle of Sauvignon Blanc perhaps? Or maybe some Gin and Juice?

A quick slurp before the tricky bits, and *ping* "Friday Night" CurlyGurl comes out to help you through!