Insult the punters. Poor modding.

Sigh!!!

Argumentive as ever that’s why I was so excited to see you.

No. My point was there’s always two side to a story and still is.

Insult the punters. Poor modding.

🙄

You’re on a roll Drac 🙂

Just don’t like the double standards.

If it’s not ok to speculate. And you are going to pull people up on it.

Probably best not to wait a few hours, and then start speculating yourself.

And also, if you are going to criticise people for being argumentative.
It’s probably better if you don’t ignore a valid point so you can jump straight to deliberately antagonising the “punter” who made it.

Drac – Moderator
Look everyone Neal has arrived

😆

You owe me one spilled pint

I’ve edited the post now (so this will make no sense).

That’s okay Cougar it’ll just fit in well with 99% of all other posts so we’re both safe 🙂

What’s occurring? Any chance of a summary?

Some bloke said

And them some other folks said

And basically someone is away with the fairies

But also someone else is on WGAS bro co

So Trousergate

And some photons got entangled or untangled

allthepies – Member
Insult the punters. Poor modding.

nealglover – Member
deliberately antagonising the “punter” who made it.

P is for Punter

What’s occurring? Any chance of a summary?

Sure.

To Kill a Mockingbird takes place in Alabama during the Depression, and is narrated by the main character, a little girl named Jean Louise “Scout” Finch. Her father, Atticus Finch, is a lawyer with high moral standards. Scout, her brother Jem, and their friend Dill are intrigued by the local rumors about a man named Boo Radley, who lives in their neighborhood but never leaves his house. Legend has it that he once stabbed his father in the leg with a pair of scissors, and he is made out to be a kind of monster. Dill is from Mississippi but spends his summer in Maycomb at a house near the Finch’s.

The children are curious to know more about Boo, and during one summer create a mini-drama they enact daily, which tells the events of his life as they know them. Slowly, the children begin moving closer to the Radley house, which is said to be haunted. They try leaving notes for Boo on his windowsill with a fishing pole, but are caught by Atticus, who firmly reprimands them for making fun of a sad man’s life. Next, the children try sneaking over to the house at night and looking through its windows. Boo’s brother, Nathan Radley, who lives in the house, thinks he hears a prowler and fires his gun. The children run away, but Jem loses his pants in a fence. When he returns in the middle of the night to get them back, they have been neatly folded and the tear from the fence roughly sewn up.

Other mysterious things happen to the Finch children. A certain tree near the Radley house has a hole in which little presents are often left for them, such as pennies, chewing gum, and soap carved figures of a little boy and girl who bear a striking resemblance to Scout and Jem. The children don’t know where these gifts are coming from, and when they go to leave a note for the mystery giver, they find that Boo’s brother has plugged up the hole with cement. The next winter brings unexpected cold and snow, and Miss Maudie’s house catches on fire. While Jem and Scout, shivering, watch the blaze from near the Radley house, someone puts a blanket around Scout without her realizing it. Not until she returns home and Atticus asks her where the blanket came from does she realize that Boo Radley must have put it around her while she was entranced by watching Miss Maudie, her favorite neighbor, and her burning house.

Atticus decides to take on a case involving a black man named Tom Robinson who has been accused of raping a very poor white girl named Mayella Ewell, a member of the notorious Ewell family, who belong to the layer of Maycomb society that people refer to as “trash.” The Finch family faces harsh criticism in the heavily racist Maycomb because of Atticus’s decision to defend Tom. But, Atticus insists on going through with the case because his conscience could not let him do otherwise. He knows Tom is innocent, and also that he has almost no chance at being acquitted, because the white jury will never believe a black man over a white woman. Despite this, Atticus wants to reveal the truth to his fellow townspeople, expose their bigotry, and encourage them to imagine the possibility of racial equality.

Because Atticus is defending a black man, Scout and Jem find themselves whispered at and taunted, and have trouble keeping their tempers. At a family Christmas gathering, Scout beats up her cloying relative Francis when he accuses Atticus of ruining the family name by being a “****-lover”. Jem cuts off the tops of an old neighbor’s flower bushes after she derides Atticus, and as punishment, has to read out loud to her every day. Jem does not realize until after she dies that he is helping her break her morphine addiction. When revealing this to Jem and Scout, Atticus holds this old woman up as an example of true courage: the will to keep fighting even when you know you can’t win.

The time for the trial draws closer, and Atticus’s sister Alexandra comes to stay with the family. She is proper and old-fashioned and wants to shape Scout into the model of the Southern feminine ideal, much to Scout’s resentment. Dill runs away from his home, where his mother and new father don’t seem interested in him, and stays in Maycomb for the summer of Tom’s trial. The night before the trial, Tom is moved into the county jail, and Atticus, fearing a possible lynching, stands guard outside the jail door all night. Jem is concerned about him, and the three children sneak into town to find him. A group of men arrive ready to cause some violence to Tom, and threaten Atticus in the process. At first Jem, Scout and Dill stand aside, but when she senses true danger, Scout runs out and begins to speak to one of the men, the father of one of her classmates in school. Her innocence brings the crowd out of their mob mentality, and they leave.

The trial pits the evidence of the white Ewell family against Tom’s evidence. According to the Ewells, Mayella asked Tom to do some work for her while her father was out, and Tom came into their house and forcibly beat and raped Mayella until her father appeared and scared him away. Tom’s version is that Mayella invited him inside, then threw her arms around him and began to kiss him. Tom tried to push her away. When Bob Ewell arrived, he flew into a rage and beat her, while Tom ran away in fright. According to the sheriff’s testimony, Mayella’s bruises were on the right side of her face, which means she was most likely punched with a left hand. Tom Robinson’s left arm is useless due to an old accident, whereas Mr. Ewell leads with his left. Given the evidence of reasonable doubt, Tom should go free, but after hours of deliberation, the jury pronounces him guilty. Scout, Jem and Dill sneak into the courthouse to see the trial and sit in the balcony with Maycomb’s black population. They are stunned at the verdict because to them, the evidence was so clearly in Tom’s favor.

Though the verdict is unfortunate, Atticus feels some satisfaction that the jury took so long deciding. Usually, the decision would be made in minutes, because a black man’s word would not be trusted. Atticus is hoping for an appeal, but unfortunately Tom tries to escape from his prison and is shot to death in the process. Jem has trouble handling the results of the trial, feeling that his trust in the goodness and rationality of humanity has been betrayed.

Meanwhile, Mr. Ewell threatens Atticus and other people connected with the trial because he feels he was humiliated. He gets his revenge one night while Jem and Scout are walking home from the Halloween play at their school. He follows them home in the dark, then runs at them and attempts to kill them with a large kitchen knife. Jem breaks his arm, and Scout, who is wearing a confining ham shaped wire costume and cannot see what is going on, is helpless throughout the attack. The elusive Boo Radley stabs Mr. Ewell and saves the children. Finally, Scout has a chance to meet the shy and nervous Boo. At the end of this fateful night, the sheriff declares that Mr. Ewell fell on his own knife so Boo, the hero of the situation, won’t have to be tried for murder. Scout walks Boo home and imagines how he has viewed the town and observed her, Jem and Dill over the years from inside his home. Boo goes inside, closes the door, and she never sees him again.

On the deleted thread, Weren’t you the one scoffing at anyone who was speculating without knowing the full facts of the matter ?o

Yes but it seems it’s okay to speculate if it makes hebcotro look good.

Drac definitely seems to have taken this personally, it’s almost as if he knows the people involved. That’s pure speculation of course so feel free to fire some childish retort.

That should be written in B&W under a lot of ceiling fans whilst wearing denim dungarees..

Denim! Boom full circle

Denim! Boom full circle

Japanese Okinawa, White Oak Cone Mills from the US? Or the cheap stuff sewn in Turkey?
These things matter.

I buy a lot at TKMAX.

I can see a Kickstarter campaign

Drac definitely seems to have taken this personally, it’s almost as if he knows the people involved. That’s pure speculation of course so feel free to fire some childish retort.

I do know them that’s no secret but that wasn’t the reason I just get sick of people using social media for smear campaigns, people rallying the pitchforks and there only be one side to story.

Blimey you’re still going on with the childish campaign.

I just get sick of people using social media for smear campaigns

And I agreed when you were telling people not to speculate without knowing the facts from both sides.

And I still do.

If it seems you don’t anymore.

I buy a lot at TKMAX.

You’re a monster!

If it seems you don’t anymore.

Another misquote there Ernie. 🙄

Another misquote there Ernie

Que ?

Just don’t like the double standards.

Like conflating “user” and “moderator”?

Yes but it seems it’s okay to speculate if it makes hebcotro look good.

It’s ok to speculate period. It’s offering speculation as fact which is problematic.

It may come as a surprise to some, but the moderation team are volunteers. We have no vested interest beyond wanting the forum to succeed.

Personally I’d be concerned about a smear campaign regarding a company spread across STW which could possibly destroy the livelihood of a company based on a loose grasp of ‘facts’ though.

Any chance of a summary?

HebTroCo and their manufacturer have had a falling out. A potentially libellous thread was started and was closed by Mark with an explanation (TL;DR: he’s protecting STW as a publisher). The userbase then took it upon themselves to create 37 threads about it.

What little I know I posted on the previous page here.

Blimey you’re still going on with the childish campaign.

Hardly a campaign, you made a childish comment to one of my posts which I noted and made childish comments to others. More an observation than campaign.

In the Short Trouser War of June 2017, not to be confused with the Shorttrouser War.
There was, as there is in so many unnecessary conflicts, some collateral damage and some PTSD and, in the words of an eye witness, a Mr Google

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JJyxQetumpYJ:singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hebden-bridge-trouser-company-or-is-it+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

So people don’t like it that 2 blokes are having a go in a very difficult industry that has all but died in this country. They also seem not to like the fact that they look to be succeeding by offering goods made in the North of England to a high standard with a lifetime guarantee. They are also probably pissed off with the fact that they are providing people with employment.
Sounds like jealousy to me.

You’re seeing now a veteran of a thousand trouser wars,
My energy is spent at last, and my trousers are destroyed,
I have used up all my seams, and I’m helpless and bereaved.

So people don’t like it that 2 blokes are having a go in a very difficult industry that has all but died in this country. They also seem not to like the fact that they look to be succeeding by offering goods made in the North of England to a high standard with a lifetime guarantee. They are also probably pissed off with the fact that they are providing people with employment.
Sounds like jealousy to me.

That seems to be willfully missing the point.

Company launches off a certain heritage.
Company, once established, may possibly, or not, have moved away from that original ethos.
Buns get thrown.

Jamie, I’m just adding to the wild speculation 😆

Just don’t like the double standards.

Like conflating “user” and “moderator”?

Let’s be honest, it’s not even close to similar really is it.

Jamie, I’m just adding to the wild speculation

Of course you would say that….what with that thing I’ve heard you do at nights.

Que ?

You chopped the crucial part of my post something you like to do with others.

Anyway my supper has arrived so I’ll let carry on.

What’s happening here, at lunchtime the thread was closed and was going to be deleted in 20 minutes (from then)? Trouser manufacturing must be a key part of mountain bike riding, not that I’ve spotted the reason why quite yet.

I’m not keen on people using social media (this place) for self promotion but then, when there’s an issue that could be easily clarified with an explanation, they are no-where to be seen.

I have used up all my seams, and I’m helpless and bereaved.

I’m sure something will turn-up.

What’s happening here, at lunchtime the thread was closed and was going to be deleted in 20 minutes

Different thread.

Trouser manufacturing must be a key part of mountain bike riding, not that I’ve spotted the reason why quite yet.

We’ve all panted up hills.

Jamie – Member
Jamie, I’m just adding to the wild speculation
Of course you would say that….what with that thing I’ve heard you do at nights.

Trouser smuggling across the county line you mean? Doh! I’ve been rumbled!

Personally I’d be concerned about a smear campaign regarding a company spread across STW which could possibly destroy the livelihood of a company based on a loose grasp of ‘facts’ though.

Superstar Components? On One/Planet X?

We’ve all panted up hills.

Very good, amazing what can turn up.

Superstar Components? On One/Planet X?

All of whom are now out of business of course.

As I said just now, “It’s ok to speculate period. It’s offering speculation as fact which is problematic.” The same is true of opinion.

Saying you think a company is shit is fine. Saying you’d had a bad experience with a company / product is fine. Satire is fine (you’ll note that most of the joke threads are still live, up until the point where it became ****ing tedious and taking up a quarter of the front page anyway).
Positing statements as fact which may or may not be untrue opens up STW to potential harm.

It’s really that simple. I believe my views on censorship are well documented elsewhere on the forum.

So people don’t like it that 2 blokes are having a go in a very difficult industry that has all but died in this country. They also seem not to like the fact that they look to be succeeding by offering goods made in the North of England to a high standard with a lifetime guarantee. They are also probably pissed off with the fact that they are providing people with employment.
Sounds like jealousy to me.

It’s not entirely dissimilar to finding out Innocent own Coke, with their cheeky “right on” marketing, having thought you were supporing something small and local/national, or that Classy and Green Pret are owned by McDonalds. Its when marketing doesn’t meet reality and the consumer finds out they’ve effectively been lied to. And that goes for any organisation, its not a go at anyone specific, – but that advice is Para 1 of any marketing book.

If the usp is made in “Trouser town”, and then they’re not, and the marketing is how honest and right on the owners of any brand are, when they appear shady, and talk about their fantastic designs, when it appeared the original was a “borrowed” design that had nothing to do with them, then the point of spending 4x the average spend of a product as a premium segment product(as you’re buying into that brand) has largely disappeared. And if you got to that point, whoever is right or wrong, whether its the owners of the company, or suppliers complaint, is totally irrelevant, the brand is damaged in social media backlash.

And when the guys who basically grabbed all that “free consultancy” appear to have been taking the piss? Well, tell you what, design me a great bike. We’ll call it “Brand’s X’ flyer” (as I’m not naming anyone or speculating about anyone here specifically) Then I’ll get it built by Orange. And I won’t pay for the design. But I’ll be really grateful for the freebee.

It’s not so dissimilar to that internet joke page about the guy who gets asked for a free logo or the missing cat posters, except thats comedy, not peoples jobs.

The worst thing is the apparent “silence”. That’s what organisations who get caught out, like Starbucks over tax and every other corporate disaster, instinctively do, and that way is usually the most damaging to any business.

Any organisation needs to be pro active in managing their Social Media PR or they’re ultimately doomed to fail.

It’s not entirely dissimilar to finding out Innocent own Coke

It’s not entirely dissimilar to thinking Innocent own Coke and then hitting the Internet telling everyone that they do.

I totally agree with everything you’ve just said, if it were true. But to the best of my understanding based on very limited information, it’s not true, and that’s the problem.

But to the best of my understanding based on very limited information, it’s not true

Speculation, then?