it isn't his fault it is Thatcher's (and for the next 50 years)
recession and an unpopular prime minister ...what are the chances of that?
just as a matter of interest smogster, what would you like to fill the ensuing void with?
This 'get rid of Brown' thing pisses me off. From day 1 everyone has been out to get him, all because he isn't a media friendly slime ball. For a politician he seems reasonably sincere.
And you only have to look at the idiotic tags to see what the problem with Brown really is. ****ing sad that.
just incompetent, bearing in mind he has been in charge of the treasury for the last 10 years, and he was responsible to removing the financial safeguards and crippling the regulators.
WWTD (What would Thatcher do) ? She sorted out the mess Labour left in the 70s so could she work her magic now?
Runs away....
richc - wrong I am afraid - he did not remove the financial safeguards - that was done by the previous administrations. See[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_(financial_markets) ] "big bang" [/url]He actually created and strengthened the regulators.
Now with hindsight he could have done more perhaps - but was hamstrung by the tory press that would have crucified him for trying to bring the banks to heel
Gary_M - Mr Brown maybe sincere but so was Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mandelson etc.
Perhaps Mr Brown would have a little more support if people thought they had some say in him becomming the PM. Though I do believe he is poor as a PM (and chanceller for that matter) I do feel sorry for him, in the same way as I felt sorry for John Major at the end his go on the banjo. Even on a good day they'll be some issue that you get blamed for. Who'ed be a politician? Not any sensible normal person.
Online petition in achieving **** all shocker!
Brown has never been given a chance by either the public or the media. He was fighting an uphill battle from the start mainly because 'he looks funny'.
He was fighting an uphill battle from the start mainly because 'he looks funny'.
In fairness, we haven't had a PM in my memory that didn't look like they'd been put together in the dark.
big_n_daft - Memberit isn't his fault it is Thatcher's (and for the next 50 years)
Why do people always blame Margaret Thatcher for everyone else's mistakes?!?
She lost the plot towards the end granted, but as I recall, she was EXACTLY what the country needed after a period of another profligate Labaour administration, who had also allowed the "tail to wag the dog". Unions are what i'm talking about. Unions killed our manufacturing industry. They stifled enterprize and made companies unviable. They killed any attempt at bringing quality up to a satisfactory level. The companies that still have active unions are suffering the same way. LDV, the Post Office etc.
I remember being trapped on the way back to my office one night after an area meeting. I was dropping off some kit for a colleague. I found myself surrounded by militant ex-miners who had come down from the north to support the print workers who had also lost their jobs when Rupert Murdoch shut the Fleet street print works. This was because of the ridiculous salaries the print workers had bullied the management into giving them. These people were very aggressive and wouldn't let me carry on down the public highway, neither would they let me turn around. They were ready to turn my car over in fact. Idiots who deserved to be unemployed! It was the Police that intervened and me and my colleagues were escorted away from these violent protestors. It totally messed up the next day, but these "planks" didnt care. Irrational bullying thugs!
Sometime later I went on a holiday to Tenerife and we found a bar full of striking miners bragging about the money they were claiming off the government. All on benefits enjoying a holiday at our expense!
Years earlier I worked for an electronics firm in a factory. The union caused mayhem. They even shut an entire production floor down for two hours because they found a piece of ham that has fallen out of someone's sandwich. They thought it was a safety risk. This is no lie, this actually happened!
Much earlier I remember the evenings by candlelight after the electricity kept going off. Unions shutting off the power. This went on for years. They bullied absolutely everyone, even their supporters! Lunatic lefties!
Thatcher fixed a lot of these problems. Good for her. I'm so glad we had Margaret Thatcher. She was a pioneer and most importantly, someone with balls!
Labour governments will always run up huge debt because they have no money sense. All they care about is swelling public services and making life difficult for anyone that wants to generate wealth. The tax payer is seen as a cash cow and they will hammer us until we are bankrupt (which is now seriously on the cards). They impose unelected quangos on us who dish out all sorts of damaging nonsense. They bang on about equality and fairness, but don't practice what they preach. They don't have a clue about nurturing a vibrant economy.
Our Prime Minister, when he was chancellor, created many of the problems we face today. He should have resigned years ago before he even became PM.
Sign this petition, even if you are worried that these stalinists will blacklist you when you fill out the form!
This really going to run now.
[i]Labour governments will always run up huge debt because they have no money sense.[/i]
Thats rubbish, it's not about money sense. It labour policy to spend it's way out of a recession. The tories are quite happy to leave well alone and leave employment to settle at a 'natural' level.
trailmonkey - MemberHe was fighting an uphill battle from the start mainly because 'he looks funny'.
In fairness, we haven't had a PM in my memory that didn't look like they'd been put together in the dark.
...by a swivel eyed maniac with ADHD
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I think the main issue with Labour is that there is no confidence in their policies or any member of the party! The Conservatives might not do a better job but it certainly feels like they couldn't do any worse...
This thread will just run and run and run...
Has anyone else noticed the irony of Songebob praising Thatcher [b]and[/b] complaining about the end of our manufacturing industry ?
Top quality waffling Spongebob.
Why do people always blame Margaret Thatcher for everyone else's mistakes?!?
Errr ...... they don't, only for hers, and there are plenty to choose from. Pretty much one to fit every occasion probably why those who are able to look at situations even handedly tend to continually point it out at a guess.
Spongebob - 1 million unemployed when thatcher came to power - a few years later 5 million ( remebering she fiddled the figures to remove many folk from the stats)
Her policies destroyed British manufacturing, created the underclass that cause so much trouble these days, seriously damaged the NHS and education.
The country still has not recovered from the damage she did - that why folk blame her.
Now Pitt the Younger or Palmeston even Lloyd George, they could sort this mess out. In fact why not resurect a crack team of former prime ministers to get us out of this mess of Gordons making. Impossible you say, no more than any one in goverment thinking that borrowing your way out of an over borrowed situation. Lets give heroin to a heroin addict to cure their heroin addiction.
Borowing = govt spending = job creation = more tax paid/less unempoloment benefit = retail spending = more jobs, etc, etc.
People are so easily swayed by the tabloid media. They've decided its time for him to go, and all the sheep are following.
TJ - its a shame unemployment was lower when she left power than when she started. You seem to miss this point out.
I don't think Gordon has had much happen in his favour, but i think he lacks any real leadership skill/ charisma/ deciveness etc and thats why people have so little faith in him.
TJ - its a shame unemployment was lower when she left power than when she started. You seem to miss this point out.
Well, that's a debateable point, given the fantastically inventive ways they had with massaging the figures. Even if the stats were true, there was no excuse for the catastrophic level of unemployment that she created in the early 80's, the price of which we're still paying today.
second what grumm said. Country is run by the media!
I like Thatcher lovers. All they can ever talk about is how she took on the unions and **** all else.
Willyboy - wrong I am afraid - remember she fiddled the figures to remove 30% of the count. Even allowing for that there were far more than a million unemployed at the end of her time.
This obsession some folk have with Thatcher is just crazy. She's gone, get over it. Brown has run the economy up a blind alley in the last 12 years, it's his fault, not Thatcher's. He was the one in charge when it all went crazy over the last decade, 1987 had nothing to do with it.
[i]He was the one in charge when it all went crazy over the last decade[/i]
So how many countries across the world are not in recession at the moment? You complain about people blaming Thatcher and you're blaming Brown for a world wide recession.
no, no, no.
Good times == Well done Gordo.
Bad times == It were that Thatcher woman.
this stuff with blaming brown is nonsense
does no one else understand what global recession means?
and thatchers government was responsible for initiating our finacial boom and ultimately the innevitable bust
id also like to point out that lawson, lamont and then brown were the 1st chancellors to raid the pension funds, -leaving us all fuct- only major never did, probably because he was too busy playing the panzer commander and the milk maid with edwina curry, yeuch!
I blame Henry VIII
Blame each of them for what they did wrong FFS. A part of the current economic difficulties lies in the BIG Bang of financial deregulation in 1986. a part of it lies in the American banking system and policies under Bush, a part of it lies in domestic economic policy.
I really doubt much of it is Browns fault - can he be blaned for the american budget deficit? Sub prime mortgages?
Goverment spending on borrowed money. I'll pay of me credit card with another credit card and I'll pay that with a credit card, with a credit card, with credit card..... Alternatively I'll make this blanket longer by cutting of the bottom and sewing onto the top. It's got to stop at some point and all the money paid, it's going to be a very painful fact.
The truth hurts on this and we'll feel the pain, Mr Brown will feel our pain for us I'm sure. In just the same way that Tony Blair felt the pain of the parents who lost sons and daughters serving in Iraq, funny how his son was not there, the pain was real cos "I'm an ordinary bloke".
[i]Gary_M - Mr Brown maybe sincere but so was Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mandelson etc.[/i]
Now, I'm no Mandleson fan, but that's quite a list you've put him in.
Government spending on borrowed money. I'll pay of me credit card with another credit card and I'll pay that with a credit card, with a credit card, with credit card..... Alternatively I'll make this blanket longer by cutting of the bottom and sewing onto the top. It's got to stop at some point and all the money paid, it's going to be a very painful fact.The truth hurts on this and we'll feel the pain, Mr Brown will feel our pain for us I'm sure.
He will indeed, whether its wholly justified is neither here or there, the British public need scapegoats to cover up the fact that they(we) were complicit in creating this mess also.
[i]this stuff with blaming brown is nonsense
does no one else understand what global recession means?
[/i]
A global recession doesn't explain why the pound has lost 30% of it's value over the past year.
Jon - The UK economy is more dependent on financial services than most. The pound was overvalued anyway. In a recession when financial services are the hardest hit people will invest in currencies that are not so vulnerable.
IMO the lower pound is a good thing anyway - makes our exports much more profitable.
I blame Sir Ralph Ramsey - after 1966 things haven't been the same 🙂
[i]A global recession doesn't explain why the pound has lost 30% of it's value over the past year.[/i]
Pretty sure that if you track through the issues you find that it does, especially given that a very significant part of our (post Thatcher) economy is dependant on the Financial Institutions which appear to be right royally ****ed by the global situation.
Soz Duplicates TJ's post, with the exception of the bit about exports, where I'm not sure I agree, given that our manufacturing base has been so seriously eroded, (again possible hand of Thatcher involvement).
El-Bent
"He will indeed, whether its wholly justified is neither here or there, the British public need scapegoats to cover up the fact that they(we) were complicit in creating this mess also".
Don't be saying that, people don't like the truth. Cheap loans and credit today and bu66er the future.
IMO the lower pound is a good thing anyway - makes our exports much more profitable.
Er yeah but imports cost more so we'll soon be into high inflation and interest rates followed by more house reposessions no doubt.
TJ - Do we have any exports left?
Right now come on you lot, this getting really boring. By now we should be insulting each other, what has gone wrong. Perhaps I'm on the wrong thread I was sure this would be the one that the angry white middle classes would be getting it out of there system. When you need that rudeboy chap he is never around, typical thread shy socialist not got the will to defend the indefencable. Perhaps it's time that we all owned up to the fact that we need a Winston Churchill or a Margret Thatcher to lead us out this depression.
Oi [b]mt[/b], work out how to spell 'indefensible'.
There. Grammar Nazi started. Please continue.... 😆
It doesn't really matter does it, they are running out of steam, in a similar way to the Tories, he's Labours John Major although I suspect he'll go and Labour will hang on for another term with the Foreign Secretaty having his turn at the 'Run your country' game, then they will implode, we'll get a Tory government, a surge of optimism will lift the country, it will run for 7 or 8 years before the corruption allegations start to hamstring them la la la la la la la, and so it goes.
AdamW - Sorry about the spelling dyslexia I'm told but the truth is I'm a bit thick.
Nick - Your right that democracy so it's thread closed.
[url= http://www.labourhome.org/story/2009/4/30/33359/7218 ]alexhilton Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 08:33:59 AM GMT
[i]"Gordon Brown last night lost an opposition day motion on rights for Gurkhas. Tonight he faces stiff opposition again, this time on parliamentary expenses.
A former Cabinet Minister is rumoured to be prepared to stand as a stalking horse candidate to trigger a leadership election if Brown loses the expenses vote tonight.
I have phoned this MP seeking confirmation of his position but he has not yet returned my call."[/i] [/url]
Looks like it won't be long now.
Odd though it may seem, I have some sympathy for Brown as an individual. After all those years of backstabbing and muckraking to get to be PM (His only real aim in life), he got there only to find out he really wasn't cut out for it.
I find the Gurkha business a bit funny. Mrs Thatcher is actually quoted saying that she thought the way this Government treated them was scandalous.
If that is so, why didn't she doing anything about it when she was in power?
Too true el bent. Thatchers immigration and nationality reforms made it harder for the Gurkas to settle in Britain, Blairs Government made it clear, the issue here is those who served pre 97 not those who are serving now.
What I cannot understand is why this government who used to be so good at spotting the public mood and doing the populist thing got this so wrong.
[i]Odd though it may seem, I have some sympathy for Brown as an individual. After all those years of backstabbing and muckraking to get to be PM (His only real aim in life), he got there only to find out he really wasn't cut out for it. [/i]
I have no sympathy at all . He spent 10 years as Chancellor undermining what Blair was trying to do and then intimidated anyone from opposing him in the leadership contest, only to find that he's a crap leader and no one likes him. Maybe he should have thought more carefully about his skills before he started.
He also had a huge amount to do with Britain's current situation - we are extremely badly placed to weather the global recession and he ignored a number of IMF warnings over the past few years which would have allowed us to prepare. While he was chancellor he allowed and encouraged house prices to go crazy by removing them from the inflation measure used by the Bank of England and deepened our dependency on financial services. Trying to blame Thatcher or America requires one to ignore a lot of facts which are rather inconvenient for Brown supporters. I expect that many in the Labour Party are bitterly regretting the decision to force Blair out and install Brown.
I blame Sir Ralph Ramsey
Alf, even
[i]What I cannot understand is why this government who used to be so good at spotting the public mood and doing the populist thing got this so wrong [/i]
Maybe cos Brown is a total tool, whereas Blair was a born politician?
grumm - Member
People are so easily swayed by the tabloid media. They've decided its time for him to go, and all the sheep are following.
Sorry, did you say Murdoch?
What I cannot understand is why this government who used to be so good at spotting the public mood and doing the populist thing got this so wrong
Signs of a siege mentality ? When [b]everything[/b] you do gets critisised, the defenses go up and it's probably hard to pick out the bits that truly matter.
whereas Blair was a born politician?
what a slimy, lying, power mad, ego maniac on a mission from god?
yeah id say thats about right
Trying to blame Thatcher or America requires one to ignore a lot of facts which are rather inconvenient for Brown supporters.
first of all i dont think brown has any supporters left
and exclusively blaming brown and ignoring thatcher and americas role in the financial crisis is equally stupid
brown and nu labour were just a continuation of the torry policies of thatcher and her move away from manufacturing to a financial services economy, something that america followed her lead on certainly in banking dergulation