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I am toying with the idea of replacing my 12 speed full SLX drivetrain with something like 11 speed deore or even 10 speed Microshift.
I have deore and slx 10 speed set-ups on 3 bikes. All are faultless. I think I've changed a gear cable on two of them and that's about it.
In contrast my SLX 12 speed needs constantly fettling to get it to almost work. Everything is straight and set up properly but it's still not as good as 10 speed. As many other posts have pointed out I think 12 speed is too sensitive to imperfections for off-road.
I'm conscious that downgrading still comes with a significant cost. But would that cost be worth paying for less annoyance on the trail?
Yup. As soon as my 12 speed wears out on my eeb, I'll be going cheapo ten speed I think.
Ridiculous having 12 speed on an eeb.
I'm only on 11 speed on my neebs so will probably stick with that rather than have to replace everything.
nope. Always had shimano. Would never put SRAM crap on one of my bikes.
Not consciously downgraded, but bought a new bike with deore 12 speed and haven't bother to put the XT stuff on it that I took of my previous bike. Works just as well!
Well I did (panic) buy an SLX 12 speed chain to put on my XTR shod bike, promptly bought another XTR when I got the SLX out of the box, it was so bendy.
Yes, but also no...?
My bike originally came with XTR 11 speed mech & shifter, and an E13 cassette, and E13 carbon cranks. Whipped it all off and fitted SRAM GX eagle rear mech and shifter, XO1 cassette and XX1 chain. Then fitted a Shimano XT m8100 crankset. Then changed the rear mech/shifter to GX Eagle AXS wireless.
Some might consider the original change to be a downgrade I suppose.
My last build had GX AXS mechs and shifter with XO1 cassette and chain, last 2 were full XX1 AXS.
Not sure thats what the OP meant…
I try to avoid Sram and was perfectly happy with 11sp. Broke the rules and bought a Sram SX 12sp bike on a whim and it was terrible, impossible to properly index the gears across the whole cassette and never smooth. Just sold the bike and will defo go back to Shimano on my new build and may stay with 11sp.
Yup, 12 speed just too finicky for me, both shimano and spam.
Back to xx1 or x01 11 speed, bombproof reliable ime over the past 7 or 8 years.
yep i’m doing my ebike when the cassette goes, no need for 12 speed….
I was once an ultegra/xt or better bike snob. Gradually, partly because I'm no longer racy or race shaped and partly because it's all so much better, I'm using deore/105 level stuff. Contrary to previous beliefs, the sky has not fallen in!
Yes.
My Sherpa runs 1 x 11 Deore.
Went for the 11-51 Deore cassette and a Deore RD-M5100 Rear Derailleur 11-speed (a wide-range one, although 12-speed derailleur might work fine). All from Bikester.
It just works. Local bike shop now recommends this set-up to their customers because it just works.
When my 11spd setup died I replaced it with Microshift Acolyte.
8 speed, 12-48 wide range cassette, seems bombproof so far.
The best bit...£70 for rear mech, cassette, shifter and chain.
Sometimes.
I've got an XTR chain and cassette I put on for races, XT for all other things as the XTR is too expensive to replace often (and getting very rare, I'm still 10sp)
No. I've got 12-spd XT on my MTB and it has never missed a beat. Tweaked the gear cable once and that's all. It's going to go haywire tomorrow isn't it.
Having only ridden 12speed SunRace setup, I swore to myself never ever again to 12speed.
I currently run 11speed GX though contemplating 10speed Microshift once worn out.
Yes, went from Sram GX 12 back to Shimano XT 11 speed
but up a nice carbon hardtail over the summer and went to 2 x 10 because I could get lightly used XT at a decent price, certainly don't feel like I am missing out
Bizarrely it has a 12 speed SLX crank because that was the only thing I could get at a decent price at the time.
Does buying a perfectly good GX equipped bike and singlespeeding it count?
I've stuck to 10 and 11 speed on my bikes, you can still get 11-46 on the 10 and 11-50 on the 11 so more than enough range and nothing is too fussy or expensive. I don't think I'll ever go 12 speed tbh.
I’ve downgraded to AliExpress cassettes on my gravel bike. Partly to availability but also as a bit of an experiment to see what they were like.
I’m tempted to try a Sensah groupset or Microshift. I’m pretty easy on components normally and not too fussy on setup not being perfect.
I tried swapping from SLX 11 speed cassettes to Microshift 11s and it was a disaster - ebike plus me equalled enough torque to wear the sprockets out in about 100 miles! I’d like to try Linkglide but it’s still vapourware…
On my hardtail I’ve got from GX Eagle to singlespeed. Lighter, quieter, faster uphill, more fun downhill. Rubbish for commuting but this bike isn’t for that.
Well I’ve only owned one 12 speed bike (nx) and it worked ok but currently got shimano 10 or 11 across 4 bikes my son and I ride. 10 speed 11-46 on 26 wheeled bikes was all the range I needed. Saint shifter lovely still going strong. Moving to 29er and 11 speed with the 11-51 deore boat anchor cassette seems fine. In no hurry to go 12s again. Yes the range is bigger with a 10 tooth cog but I never spun out on 30*11 so seems pointless. I am running a 12s chain as it was left over from being bought as a spare on the previous bike, and a 12s deore mech as it was available.
The hardtail has 11-46 with m7000 mech- can anyone confirm that mech will stretch to 50 or 51 when a new cassette is needed? I don’t like the jump between big two cogs on the 11-46 shimano slx cassette at all!
I considered it after smashing a 12 speed mech early on, but it's won me over with awesome shifting, range and durability (slx with xtr/xt cassettes).
I'm running an NX cassette with GX AXS on my KSL because it's HG and fits the steel free hub on my Hope hubs. It doesn't shift as nicely as either a Deore or SLX cassette but being all steel the wear rate is pretty good.
I went with microshift advent x.
Wide range 10 speed with 11-48.
Super impressed with it and alot cheaper
Still running a 3x9 set-up, now Alivio cassette & rings instead of higher level kit, and not regretted it for a minute. Working day in, day out on the latest & greatest has only convinced me more that "upgrading" isn't a good idea.
My xtr 12 speed has been bombproof since I fitted it beginning of May...not even touched a barrel adjuster
Slight hijack with a query.
Can I run a bigger cassette say than my 11speed GX 42T with the GX mech as it is?
Were thinking of a 10-46T from any that fit XD freewheels.
Not so much a downgrade for me, but have stuck with 11sp XT drivetrain. I do have a Garbaruk cassette but chains are cheap to swap out when required. Can’t see me changing anything else soon.
Deore 12 on sunrace cassette here not skipped a beat since I switched early this year.
Drivetrain on a spesh eeb demo bike at Ard rock was horrendous though and I totally failed to fix it too (SRAM I think). Not sure what my point is...
Yep moved from XO1 cassette and chain to GX, both 12 speed, haven't noticed a change in function.
I hired an ebike last weekend with the Microshift Drivetrain and to be honest I couldn’t tell the difference between it and the SRAM ones I’ve been using for years or a Shimano one.
At the price Microshift coats i’de replace mine in an instant if the mech dies.
Current hardtail has 11sp NX with a Sunrace cassette and having come from 10sp XO I haven’t had any bother with it, it shift well, doesn’t rattle around and lose the chain/skip, doesn’t need adjusting all the time. I wouldn’t touch SX with a barge pole but Deore, NX and Microshift are all perfectly good for 9/10 people who ride MTB.
Not yet, but I'm quite tempted to do so.
Previous 11sp somewhat-bodged Shimano had XT shifter, Deore mech, SLX cassette; and it worked very well.
Current 12sp somewhat-bodged Shimano is SLX shifter/mech with a Sunrace cassette, and it's just annoying. Getting it set up in the first place took a lot of faff, and it has been temperamental ever since. It currently shifts well BUT won't get into the largest sprocket on the cassette. So it's effectively an 11sp 11:42 setup. And actually, that's fine: I get up most stuff I generally want to get up.
So once I've run it into the ground if I can get something with fewer speeds that does 42T+ at the top end but isn't a massive pain to dial in, I will give it serious consideration. I'm not massively bothered about cadence for MTB so an 8 or 9 speed setup would do me so long as it has a clutch mech.
I was once an ultegra/xt or better bike snob. Gradually, partly because I’m no longer racy or race shaped and partly because it’s all so much better, I’m using deore/105 level stuff. Contrary to previous beliefs, the sky has not fallen in!
Same here. Still got my original race bike with its full Dura Ace groupset (10sp 7800), and I've had long term use of a top end Canyon Ultimate with Dura Ace Di2, a high end Specialized with full Ultegra plus a couple of other much shorter lived (hired/borrowed) bikes.
New road bike is a mid-level carbon frame and a full 105 groupset. I considered Ultegra, even briefly looked at a Di2 model and then thought what's the point?!
3 or 4x the price, cost of replacement parts, I no longer race, I simply don't need it...
And it's great! Looks good, rides really nicely. It's all the bike I ever need!
@tomparkin have you checked the b tension screw on the mech? I learned on Saturday that it's different to previous Shimano setting up. Mine is now perfectly set.
Indexing is still poor though.
Not yet but I'd love a 10spd 9-45 or even 9-42 option.
Happy enough with slightly bigger jumps in the high grears. That setup with current Shimano or SRAM designs would be absolutely superb.
Kind of a downgrade: removed 1x12 Deore from new bike in favour of 1x11 mix of SLX mech/cassette with XTR shifter. “Only” 11-46t cassette but that’s enough for me. Mainly changed as my and Mrs a11y’s other bikes are all 11sp.
Also, recently swapped from 11-46t SLX to a 10-42t SRAM XG1150 cassette. More a sideways step rather than downgrade. Hoping for better durability.
No plans to move to 12sp.
I have 11 speed Shimano Slx with an Xt shifter and that is great, SRAM GX 12 speed is finicky and the shifting isn’t as good. Box gears on another bike were really poor.
Im moving from the stock Deore 12 speed to XO 10 speed.
10/11/12 Shimano all use the same cable pull so you can just use your SLX mech OP and a 10 speed shifter/cassette if that's what you prefer...
I'm using a 12 speed Deore mech with a cheapo 11-42 cassette and a zee shifter, it can accommodate a much bigger range if I need it to, but it's reliable and relatively cheap...
Microshift Advent X on the hardtail and pretty impressed. Shifter isn't as intuitive as Shimano but it's amazing value.
Suspect the big bike when i eventually get it will be Deore 12 with an upgraded shifter and decent cables
As many other posts have pointed out I think 12 speed is too sensitive to imperfections for off-road.
Disagree.
+4 years and nearly 5k miles hard miles on my Cotic - GX works a treat.
2nd mech after ****ting the original on a rock, original shifter, about 4 cassettes and the original alloy plus 2 steel chainrings.
The NX mech I replaced the GX mech with on my HT when I swapped it on to the Cotic was horrible, cheaper NX cassette that came on my HT wore far too quickly. Chain-wise I just use SRAM and replace at 0.5.
It'll be getting a new cassette, chain and chain ring for Christmas - will be GX.
Not sure how you downgrade from a 2005 SRAM X9 9 speed, but it refuses to die so I'll find out when it finally does.
Any other bike has had Deore or Tiagra put on when original bits died. Unless I can upgrade the rider, spending more seems excessive.
Not really a downgrade, but I have made a conscious decision to stay with Deore for my commuter with the cheapest, decent chains I can get away with for the drivetrain. I love the bike, but it gets poorly treated in winter and spoiling it with nice things makes me sad when they get destroyed after a winter.
My other two bikes are still running their stock chainsets. When the road bike needs things replacing it may get something a little bit more upmarket, but the Stumpy is going to get fed the stock replacemetns. Apart from brakes... I may give it better brakes.
As many other posts have pointed out I think 12 speed is too sensitive to imperfections for off-road.
like @intheborders, I've found that SRAM 12 speed to be utterly bombproof. I replaced a chain and cassette out of supply chain worries not because of wear and tear. It did 6000km and it wasn't even at 0.5. In that time I've replaced in the inner cable and maybe tweaked the B adjustment...and that's it.
Yep, 10 speed microshift advent x for about a year now with an ali express cassette (this was due to availability) and it has all been amazing. 10 speed on two other bikes too.
I ride 29ers, so use a 28 chainring with 11-46 cassettes and have plenty of up hill gears (I always gear for the ups, not the downs).
Yes,
Broke the NX mech on my Status, fitted Microshift Advent X which works fine, have now fitted it to 2 other bikes.
Not sure how you downgrade from a 2005 SRAM X9 9 speed, but it refuses to die so I’ll find out when it finally does.
Presumably you've had dozens of chains, cassettes, jockey wheels, chainrings and cables run through it though, so the only 'originals' will be the cranks, mech and shifter?
Presumably you’ve had dozens of chains, cassettes, jockey wheels, chainrings and cables run through it though, so the only ‘originals’ will be the cranks, mech and shifter?
Surprisingly few. Even when the cassettes and chains are badly worn, they work. Just cleaning properly after every ride. Cables in full length outers last years with an occasional lube. Jockey wheels taken out, greased regularly.
my X9 mech wore out, (2nd or 3rd ive had on the drive chain over the years) and being 9 speed it now has a "vintage" value.
Couldnt justify the full RRP for a 10 yr old mech, when i could get an X7 for a bargain bin price.
so went X7.
New X7 works much smoother than haggard X9.
I put GX Eagle on my old Camber in order to lose the front mech. It was great (apart from the gen 1 rear mech without the chain retaining ridge on the jockey wheel.
My new Cotic Jeht has Microshift Advent X 1x10, it's really good. The only thing I miss is the crawler gear
Not as such but I guess it's apart of a list of things I'd never own or own fleetingly if I was getting some deal and could sell on as unused.
I'd also not own anything with Tourney or even worse SX/NX
I'd not own anything with micro spline or XD
I'd not own anything with GXP
I'd not own anything that isn't a bar mount
My current bikes (across family excluding SS) are 11sp Sunrace steel except the 4x which has a Saint 10sp... and decent (not shit) chains are actually cheaper for 11sp than 10sp... I'd upgrade to 10sp if I had the parts and chains were cheaper.
Linkglide looks interesting .. its a shame they cripple the Deore on range but I'm waiting for pull ratio's and some tests to work out a cost effective way to use it.
Ideally I'd like a HG or non premium interface (open and no royalties) and Saint ruggedness.. with say 46T capability and £10 chains.
Have NX eagle on my bike, had it just over two years and apart from a quick fettle with it I've not had any problems at all. On its second chain now but that's it. Will keep the same type of cassette when it needs it, will eventually upgrade the shifter if I need to but will keep them till they break. Happy with what ive got though
Sure
I have changed a GX eagle mech to a Deore 12 before but I see that as an upgrade as Sram mechs are awful
I then bought a bike with XTR 11 speed and immediately swapped out the mech for a Deore and the cassette for a Sunrace to remove the awful jump and get a bigger cog.
11 stays shifting well for longer than than 12 and everything is cheaper.
Dangling a spangly mech around here is asking for expensive trouble as they don't last long when clanged on the rocks. And why do that when Deore shifts just as well. I like the XTR shifter as you can double downshift.
Stevextc- you know you can run cheaper 11s chains with your 10s everything else don’t you?
Stevextc- you know you can run cheaper 11s chains with your 10s everything else don’t you?
Actually no ... I mean I figured I could get away with it as the width is pretty close but not actually done it.
I guess the other thing is the "4x thing" barely gets pedalled ... my intention was always to set it up SS but that cost money compared to having a Saint shifter and mech lying about.
Dont find I have any issues with shimano 12 speed. Things need maintenance, avoids expensive failures.
I refuse to own anything sram, it wears out far too quickly
-SP41 gear cable, gets replaced once a year.
-Aligned mech hanger
-Jockey wheels kept in good condition, replaced when they get wobbly
-XT cassette, XT chain. Aim to get 3000miles out of two chains and one cassette
-Rebuild the mech once in a while, they arn't that well sealed and become sticky (the pin the holds the lower cage to the parallelogram gets sticky)
The kids bikes are a mixture of 11 speed SLX and XT I would have certainly put Advent X on it at the time but there was no stock anywhere when I built them up.
For the first time in ages by next MTB bike is likely to be a full build and if you want the better fork and wheels you end up with the better groupset. I’m not impressed with 12 speed I have it on my gravel bike and it’s just not robust. It’s not easy to downgrade from 12 speed as you’ve committed to a particular free hub. It’s likely to be a Sondor at least you can get different free hubs for their wheels.
I refuse to own anything sram, it wears out far too quickly
Honestly, the Eagle stuff really doesn't. I was skeptical as well, and expected that the drivetrain would be the very thing I probably have to replace on a bike bought in 2019, but it's been the thing that needs the least attention.
Oddly, without thinking about it I've downgraded all the way down the Shimano hierarchy since my first full sus. Started with a mix of M970 XTR and XT, then on my Nukeproof it was Zee/SLX/XT, then SLX/Deore on the Reign and now Deore/SLX on the Ripmo. Performance wise, SLX/Deore is the best.
I've got a range of everything XO 1x12 > Single speed.
I added 1x10 Deore M4/5100 to a single speed bike as a cheap drivetrain, and I'm mega impressed!
Shifts perfectly and the 11-42t gives a pretty good range and the jumps aren't too bad. No complaints other than the heavy cassette. I eventually added a Zee shifter for £10 so that I could get rid of the shift window and have a nicer leaver feel. I'll definitely use Deore in the future.
For the first time in ages by next MTB bike is likely to be a full build and if you want the better fork and wheels you end up with the better groupset.
In general yes .. well being pedantic not the "better" groupset but the one with more gears...
Depends what you buy and from who ... I know Bird allow a 11sp drivechain and Ultimates or Factory which is interesting for me as boost/metric/wheel size is likely to be the main driver for me getting a complete bike
I was dubious about SRAM - but bike came with GX Eagle 12 speed. Over 2 years it's been flawless, recently bent the mech and got the AXS upgrade kit. So far, so good.
I’m not surprised some people want to go back to 11 or 10speed. I still use 10 speed an have far less issues than riding buddies using 12speed .
Asking a rear mech to shift such a huge range of gears we see on 12s cassettes means that the extra large mech required is very vulnerable to trail damage and wear. The back wheel of a mountain bike takes most impact too, so adding the big mech and cassette to the “unsprung weight“ isn’t good. Obviously the most expensive group sets such as XTR and SRAM equivalent get over some of these weaknesses but only at totally ridiculous cost.
The 10 tooth small sprocket on most 12 speed cassettes will not last as well as the old 11 tooth rings either. I personally prefer the older 10 and 11 speed set ups plus the ability to run a bash guard. My recent new XT cassette cost £65. Still a fair bit but way less than 12 speed.
10sp Advent x microshift on my ebike. it was previously SRAM 12speed. its been such a massive improvement its silly
I used to be all about XTR and Dura Ace, but last 3 groupsets have been 105/5800, XT/8000 and Ultegra Di2/8000 on a bike, which i got for *only* 400€ more than the none Di2 groupset, and it was in stock, not 6+ months off.
The ex got two new bikes in the last 3 years, one fitted with complete XX1 eagle and the other on GX eagle. Both had multiple trips back to the shops to get indexing fixed (i'm not mucking around with fixing brand new bikes with issues.)
One eventually got converted from GX => SLX and the other one now has XT instead of XX1, both running perfectly now.
I'm another rider who's not exactly downgraded but have pressed pause at 11sp Shimano XT/SLX (with a wider range Sunrace cassette).
Works fine, just about enough range, slightly less vulnerable rear mechs - just does the job.
I've finally got around to finishing off setting my two Pace hardtails the way I want. Both of which have had a kind of sideways move.
The 627 has a Sunrace 12 sp set up, and I can't fault it. Mech is the MX vesion, SR 12 sp 11-50 cassette, and a SR MZ shifter (£5 on Ebay, brand new, clearly not aware of what they were selling, lucky me), Sram GX eagle chain). I think that running a full SR set-up is the key, seems to work without any grumbles or rattly noises.
The more interesting of the two is my RC 127, rigid Surly forks. SR 10 sp Cassette, 11-46, and the much admired Microshift Advent X Mech and shifter. Quite simply, unbeatable for the price. Snappy shifts and quiet running. The bike has fairly light wheels, and feels so buzzy and quick.
There’s something not right about your 12 spd Shimano set up if it isn’t the best shifting you’ve ever had.
12 spd XT pisses all over 11 spd XTR Di2 in my experience.
Don’t find it harder to set up - if anything it’s easier with regard to B-tension with the marking on the back of 5e inner cage to line up with the 51T sprocket.
It’s different to set up compared to older Shimano stuff, but not more difficult, and no less stable regarding adjustment on either of my bikes with it.
Not exactly a downgrade, but I have decided to ditch the singlespeed on my commuter. I've just ordered the Microshift Acolyte 8 speed, as I want try and make it a bike that I can do the groceries on. For less than £100 for the full set, including cables and chain, I'm quite looking forward to it.
Microshift Acolyte 8 speed
I've had zero problems with it for nearly 5 months now. You can get mech, cassette, shifter and chain for £65 on CRC at the moment.
Chunky 8spd with a 12-46 range, what's not to like!
XT shifters (or Saint on my olde 10spd Soul) and the rest made up of Deore or SLX, depending on what’s available or on offer at the time.
3 bikes, ranging from XT, SLX and Deore bits and bar the range (12, 11 & 10 speeds) there’s little to zero difference between them when paired with a nice shifter.
Blatting 3 x XT rear mechs off rocks in about as many months during lockdown got expensive and tedious real quick.
Microshift Advent X on the hardtail and pretty impressed. Shifters not as intuitive as Shimano but mostly ok. Would happily buy again although next bike is likely to be a complete so will probably go Shimano 12 of some flavour.