Handlebar height factors, two different bikes

Planning to experiment with this on the new bike, but it’s a bit of a pain to do due to minimum spacers (cables emerging below headset), steerer length, and rise of the original bar. So it got me thinking, intuitively, what would make me want higher or lower than my other bike for a similar feeling. Stack height of the bikes is the same.

Obviously theorising can’t definitively answer this. My other bike felt horrible with 10mm more or less spacers under the stem, yet this one has the bars 13mm higher by default and feels fine, not having specifically paid any attention to it on my first ride. It is a different bike afterall.

I think I understand the optimal height allows you to weigh the front downhill, gives you enough bend in your arms to extend into holes, lets you unweigh or lift the front, and keeps the front down on steep climbs. I have it perfected on my other bike.

Longer chainstays (450mm vs. 430mm). Should put more weight forward, so a higher handlebar to compensate.

Longer front centre (805mm vs. 778mm), due to longer reach, slacker head angle, and longer fork. Although the reach is countered by a shorter stem so let’s say 17mm longer. So the front and rear centres are longer by about the same, suggesting same bar height.

Higher bottom bracket (25mm drop vs. 40mm drop). Should ease lifting the front, so a lower handlebar might be fine.

Extra weight of motor and battery, 1.8kg each. Suggests higher bar to counteract.

What’s your intuition?

 yet this one has the bars 13mm higher by default and feels fine, not having specifically paid any attention to it on my first ride

If it feels fine, just ride it.

I am, but if better is possible I’ll take it

if better is possible I’ll take it

The only way to find what’s better for you is to experiment. If you’re riding more XC oriented trails, with long climbs and less demanding descents, you’d probably want a longer stem, and narrower bars set a bit lower. If you’re doing uplifts with steep descents, you’d probably want a shorter stem and wider bars set higher. There is no simple formula that will tell you the optimum setup for every rider on every trail. Just experiment.

“ I am, but if better is possible I’ll take it”

Then try raising the bars until it’s detrimental to climbing or flat quick (slalom) turns or lowering them until it’s uncomfortable on the flat or sketchy down steep stuff. Every bike and rider combination is different.

Yep as I said I’ll have a go. Just wondering if people had any experiences or rules of thumb.

A really useful measurement to know is your grip height (from the floor).

It’s often the one constant dimension that helps when setting up/comparing different bikes.

A really useful measurement to know is your grip height (from the floor).

From the pedals is more useful, surely.

Yep. Subtract BB height from grip-to-floor height.

Vorsprung discusses bar height and fork dive here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inrf0MD8vHI

I think a lot of it comes down to what you are used to.

Ive got 2 bikes that have massively different geometry – a 2013 Transition Bandit and a 2023 Scott Genius.

Switching back to the bandit feels really weird after riding the genius but I soon get used to it and then it feels odd going back to the genius.

Vorsprung discusses bar height and fork dive here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inrf0MD8vHI

GPT’d the transcript for anyone who cba watching the whole video:

The speaker discusses handlebar height in the context of how it affects the perception of fork dive and overall bike performance. Here are the key points:

1. **Initial and Final Bar Height**: The speaker explains that the initial height of the handlebars affects how high they end up under braking or during sharp deceleration. If the handlebars start higher, they will end higher for a given amount of displacement.

2. **Sag and Bar Height**: When you change from an air spring to a coil spring, you typically run more sag, which means the handlebars will start lower. This lower starting point can make the handlebars feel too low under braking or on steep descents.

3. **Perception of Fork Dive**: The perception of fork dive is often related to the handlebars ending up too low rather than the fork displacing too far. To address this, the speaker suggests either reducing the displacement (which is challenging due to spring rate constraints) or changing the ending point of the handlebars.

4. **Raising Handlebar Height**: One of the simplest solutions to reduce the perception of fork dive is to raise the static handlebar height. This can help maintain a more comfortable and effective riding position, especially for taller riders.

5. **Limitations**: If the handlebars are already as high as they can go without causing other compromises, and the fork still feels too soft or doesn’t use its full travel, then other adjustments might be necessary. This could include changing the spring rate or adjusting the travel of the fork.