Grouse moor licencing, Scotland.

The main point still stands tho – a small number of Lynx wlll have no significant effect on red deer numbers

I’m not getting on to you, Im just showing there is clear evidence.

But it’s not just deer is it ?, a lot of people go camping with their small children.

You introduce wolves or lynx into Scotland, it’s highly likely there will be incidents involving people. How vocal would supporters be in such an instance ?, I reckon the silence would be deafening.

Personally I cant see the need to do such. I mean WHY exactly do we need wolves or lynx ?.

As regards people attacks – Lynx attacks are pretty unheard of and Wolves only attack people if they are really desperate which with all those deer and smaller game is unlikely

I would like to see apex predators reintroduced but it needs a lot more than wishful thinking and good intentions

European brown bears would be nice as well

sorry – the why:

rebalancing the ecology. wildlife tourism are two main reasons but it must be done without turing the highlands into a park or a zoo

@tjagain

Don’t confuse conservationists with animal rights activists / anti shooting activists.

Google is your friend regards the latter. Not hard to find out what kind of people they are.

Even Packham (not a conservationist when talking about wild justice, purely an anti shooting outfit)
has been caught lying recently in a case concerning circus tigers in Europe.

He even had the gall to ask for help from the GCWT when his Welsh court case was flung out.

As I said. Arseholes on both sides so one is no better than the other in my book.

I know of no instances of anyone from the conservation side making up things and falsifying evidence. its something the hunting shooting fishing lobby claim happens but as far as I am aware have never presented any evidence.

If you want to make allegations you should be able to support them

Arseholes on both sides

Tim Bonner being such an example. I’d rather spend time with Chris Packham any day of the week

I know of no instances of anyone from the conservation side making up things

Good to know you don’t read my replies.

I have read every one. No evidence just allegations. If you have evidence I would love to read it. the better informed we are the better the debate

I’d rather spend time with Chris Packham any day of the week

A lying arsehole, as I’ve said. Blindly trying to stop shooting regardless of the affect on wildlife or agriculture.

Happy to ask for help when he gets spanked though.

Anyway, I made my view clear and am not getting suckered in to the usual crap.

You may now proceed to say it’s because I’m a liar/stupid/uneducated/wrong, whatever makes you happy..

I suspect its because you have no evidence to back up your allegations

simple things like screenshots of the online abuse or police reports or some evidence of the lies or falsifying of evidence?

So do you have any evidence – or not?

You may now proceed to say it’s because I’m a liar/stupid/uneducated/wrong, whatever makes you happy..

I would never say this of you. You have a different opinion and are happy to express it. I am happy to express mine. You do however seem quite keen to suggest others are liars though.

@tjagain

Why make out you are interested when all you want is to make me a liar ?

Because of my sources of info i will never see this, rarely seeing anything other than press releases from the shooting lobby and would be really interested

Seriosuly mate ?, I laughed but went with it.
I’ll not be any more though.

Or maybe , just a wee one.
How about Packam tweeting about UK hunters traveling to shoot Puffins ? Total bollocks. But that’s just a wee fib.
As was his stories about German tigers and his partners outfit “wildheart”
Making up complete lies (well proven in Spanish and German courts) and using it to obtain donations for his “charity” (another wee fib)

He is not adverse to using his BBC status to have lies put in print, but that’s ok, he’s lovable.

Or have a look at Luke Steele. Founder of Moorland Monitors. Criminal liar enough for you?

But I’ve no patience for it tonight, I’ve a Special Karachi to wash down before I burst into flames.

How about Packam tweeting about UK hunters traveling to shoot Puffins ? Total bollocks. But that’s just a wee fib.

He actually shared a Telegraph article on the subject. Shouldn’t your criticism be focused on the news provider?

Seriously Brad – I don’t read the hunting shooting fishing magazines, I don’t read the telegraph. I have heard of the shooting lobby making allegations of falsifying evidence but I have never actually seen any evidence of the conservation side falsifying anything

I am not calling you a liar. I have actually found your contributions to this debate interesting and thought provoking

Luke Steele has been dropped like a hot tattie and all claims of him being founder of Moorland Monitors are being denied etc.

He posted mail through a streets letterboxes claiming a scientist was a rapist.
That was just for starters. He’s a nasty little shit. But besties with Mark Avery.

Doctoring “secret” (illegal) footage inside an abattoir was another that had him laughed out of court.
He did 18 months for one crime, cannae remember what one just now though.
Moorland Monitors was his pet. People with absolutely zero knowledge of moorland management screaming carnage just for the sake of it.

I will stress again though don’t confuse conservationists with anti hunters. Most moors are working with conservation outfits nowadays and quite rightly so. Shooting shouldn’t cost serious damage to wildlife.

Most if not all organisations mentioned here are the latter.

Shooting shouldn’t cost serious damage to wildlife.

Shame that is simply not so for grouse moors – the main subject of this thread

1) muirburn degrades the soils, reduces biodiversity and causes erosion

2) Grouse moors routinely kill all predators they can legally

3) many grouse moors illegally kill raptors

Grouse moors are “green deserts” with hugely reduced biodiversity and the damage they do is proven

Luke Steele has been dropped like a hot tattie and all claims of him being founder of Moorland Monitors are being denied etc.

He posted mail through a streets letterboxes claiming a scientist was a rapist.
That was just for starters. He’s a nasty little shit. But besties with Mark Avery.

Doctoring “secret” (illegal) footage inside an abattoir was another that had him laughed out of court.
He did 18 months for one crime, cannae remember what one just now though.
Moorland Monitors was his pet. People with absolutely zero knowledge of moorland management screaming carnage just for the sake of it.

I will stress again though don’t confuse conservationists with anti hunters. Most moors are working with conservation outfits nowadays and quite rightly so. Shooting shouldn’t cost serious damage to wildlife.

Most if not all organisations mentioned here are the latter.

Sources? Otherwise it’s just words.

Particularly to someone like me that pays no attention to either pro or anti hunting groups.

I did look up luke Steele – the only info I could find was rather nasty pro hunting groups but even allowing for that he sounds a shit and he did do some time.

Yet another peregrine poisoned. Proven. Poison bait left near a known nesting site in the dark peak

You cannot hide from the fact that grouse moors routinely do this and that during lockdown the illegal killing of raptors increased

Yet another peregrine poisoned. Proven. Poison bait left near a known nesting site in the dark peak

You cannot hide from the fact that grouse moors routinely do this and that during lockdown the illegal killing of raptors increased

But the RSPB did it, or Chris Packham, or urban people who don’t understand the country, or the bird picked up the poison elsewhere and flew in to the area before eating it, or its because of ‘so called access laws’, or it was a person walking their dog off the lead, or its because we protect all of the wildlife, or it was a mountain hare, or, or, or, PROVE IT WAS US!!!!!
There you go, proof we can self police and don’t need licencing.

You don’t understand, you don’t even live in the countryside.

It was found on top of the poison bait!

But of course the bait was planted by the folk who want to discredit grouse moors! 🙂

But of course the bait was planted by the folk who want to discredit grouse moors Chris Packham!

Fixed it for you, you bad townie.

*ducks head in shame and tugs forelock*

sorry guv

The Scottish Gamekeepers Association had a FB post up on 11 Feb bemoaning how someone ‘from the south’ abusing ‘so called access laws’ had their dog off a lead and it disturbed deer, thereby potentially stopping the deer from eating. Their post included the fabulous quote

If people remain unaware of impacts of their leisure pursuits on the health of iconic species, Government agencies have not done their work properly in encouraging Access rights which match up with responsibilities.

impacts of their leisure pursuits on the health of iconic species
Their members quite literally shoot iconic species for leisure!!!

Couldn’t see the Angus glens for smoke at the weekend because of the Moor burn. Anybody see the disgusting exchanges between the pres of the Scottish gamekeepers association and his acolytes on their forum? Somebody shared it on the Scottish rewilding page on Facebook.

You cannot hide from the fact that grouse moors routinely do this

They have got more sneaky about it in recent years due to the number of inconvenient tags. Might be a f u to the National Trust (whose land it was found on) since the NT has started to grow a backbone.

Found a freshly dead buzzard beside our house a couple of days ago. Most likely a victim of the recent hard weather and lack of food but reported it to DEFRA and it was actually collected and taken away for inspection the next day. Apparently they are interested in any reports of dead birds or preys, swans etc for the purposes of monitoring bird flu and poisoning etc. We’re fairly close to grouse moor so you never know what they’re up to.

I was pleasantly surprised so if you do see any dead birds or whatever definitely worth reporting it.

Couldn’t see the Angus glens for smoke at the weekend because of the Moor burn. Anybody see the disgusting exchanges between the pres of the Scottish gamekeepers association and his acolytes on their forum? Somebody shared it on the Scottish rewilding page on Facebook.

I’ve tried engaging on SGA facebook but they just delete your comments or block you. I have asked genuine questions, not been overly challenging and they just can’t handle it. They are like Trump supporters in their blind faith of their version of the truth whilst being victims of the media. Thankfully they are truly appalling at organising constructive defence of their actions so, they will in time, undo their own industry through their ineptitude.

But the RSPB did it, or Chris Packham

Well this was obviously a set up by the RSPB…..
https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/investigations/posts/more-dark-secrets-in-north-yorkshire

Don’t know for sure but I’ll wager the gamekeeper in question was the gobshite who had a go at me when I was on The Moresdale Road one Saturday. The police had a word with him about hat incident as well.

They are like Trump supporters in their blind faith of their version of the truth

Or maybe that response springs from the fact that they know they can offer no reasonable defence of some of the practices? So all they can do is bluster and shut down debate. Which is also Trump like.

A lot of them have recently appeared on pretty much every outdoor page I am on. As soon as somebody dares to mention anything about negative land use they are on it mob handed. Almost like it is planned….

The thing that really amuses me is that if they are the good landowners they claim to be then they have nothing to fear from licensing!

In fact it would protect them from all the false accusations they claim because they would be able to point to the license and say – we are operating correctly

TJ, of course you are right. But remember licensing is the start of a plan to destroy their way of life and, in turn ruin the countryside. It is just the first nail in the coffin of the entire countryside. Unless they can carry on doing what they are doing without any regulation, thousands of jobs will be lost, millions of ££’s will be lost to the economy and the countryside will be a barren wasteland devoid of all life.

It kind of makes you wonder how wildlife even survives in places without kindly gamekeepers helping to manage things for them.

I know, imagine being a hare…out in the cold eating nothing but bland grass and always terrified of raptors. Add in the constant irritation from ticks and I would be practically begging a guardian of the countryside to put me out of my misery.

I know, imagine being a hare

Poor things must be so upset at the new rules which came in on the 1st of March. Still at least those nice guardians of the countryside are offering to relocate them from grouse moors to help them repopulate other areas.

I seem to remember reading that estates had been extremely busy with regards to hares since the start of last year.

And with killing raptors. Killings are massively up this year but some good news – there was a mass poisoning early in lockdown and there are multiple prosecutions ongoing from it.

Burning totally spoilt the fine spring weather the past few days here on Speyside – Glenlivet, Glenfiddich estates all at it, leaving a brown layer of smog across the skies. The cold snap has had an impact on the local rabbit and hare population but there is nothing feeding on the carrion – I haven’t seen a fox here in 10 months.

I have some lovely photos of smoke inversion taken yesterday from the Cairngorms. In this still, high pressure air it just hangs in the glens.

Same here in Angus, as referred to above; smog hanging across Strathmore all through Sunday & Monday from Muirburn in the glens and even on the Sidlaws. A low, brown/yellow haze sunk into the cold air and no significant breeze. This must be as bad for asthma folk as city smog & fumes; we see bluster in the press about woodburning stoves, but why so little criticism of the vast amount of particulate pollution produced by burning thousands of acres of heather and peat annually?