[Closed] FS travel conundrum - what 120-130 travel frame?

Why go for 140mm if you decsend faster on 100mm?
why not go for an even shorter travel pinner like the 80-100mm 2011 intense tazer vp (it's 1.5 so you can fit slack cups if you really want a 67deg HA.

If you can get hold of an older Kona Dawg frame circa 2006 they come in at 68 deg HA and 130mm travel.

plenty of 5" bikes around - santa cruz blur, Yeti ASR 5, Whyte T120, specialized stumpjumper or maybe even the new camber.

all depends on budget!

New santa cruz nickel?

Why go for 140mm if you decsend faster on 100mm?
why not go for an even shorter travel pinner like the 80-100mm 2011 intense tazer vp (it's 1.5 so you can fit slack cups if you really want a 67deg HA.

You're probably right but the problem is I simply didn't know of any shorter travel burly frames. I'm fine with the longer fork hence wanting something shorter than 6" at the rear.

Basically I'm totally confused. You would expect that the steep head angled XC bike would be slower on descents than the 6" rear travel 140mm forked bike but for me it's not the case and I simply can't work out why.

I know nothing about the Tazer but will go and look into it.

How about the Chumba XCL? 5" travel 68 degree HA with 140mm and now £899 for the frame only.

[img] [/img]

banshee spitfire is what you're describing. with a fox 36 on the front it gives just under 67 degrees head angle
5" travel, stiff rear end, anti-squat built into the linkage so it'll climb up anything. rides like a really light dh bike.
here's mine..
[IMG] [/IMG]

The Chumba VF2 sounds like just what I'm after but sadly I can't afford the price of a new small frame right now.

Whats the difference between the VF2 and XCL as they seem to have the same geometry but the XCL is a bit heavier?

Orange Blood? Similar idea to the Spitfire - 127mm rear travel matched with a 160mm fork up front with slack HA and low BB. Rocketship!

We've still got some Helius CC's on [url= http://www.nicolai-uk.com/index.php/special-offers/ ]special offer[/url] - would be 67 degrees with 140mm forks. 130mm travel at the back

The xcl has an all alloy construction and no hydro forming. The vf2 has swoopy tubes and a carbon rear. I am all out of small xcl frames anyway. I do have a ano red vf2 frame that I could do a good deal on if you are interested?

I'm often faster descending on shorter travel bikes too, depending on the type of descent sometimes a hardtails faster than a full sus bike.

there aren't many short travel pinners out there but I'd also have a look at the 2011 Spesh SX frame (not available here tho, so you'd have to have one sent over)

Trance might be a bit too similar to yr Anthem.

What 6in FS have you got and what don't you like about it?

Are you actually descending faster or do you just feel faster? It's fairly common for people moving to a more bouncy rig to feel slower. I felt tonnes slower on my prophet than my hi-fi but in reality I was keeping up with the faster riders much better. Dirt did that 140mm bike test recently and found themselves feeling uch cslower on the last than the 5 but were actually considerably faster. Oh and I'd go for the mythic, or a fuel ex!

if that's aimed at me, I know I am faster on certain bikes on certain descents from timing and from how big a gap I can make or how quickly I can catch riding mates.

The 6" bike is a Mongoose Teocali Super 2009 with 145mm rear travel (RP23 high volume) and 140mm Fox 32 Float 15mm.

I rode some of the same sections at Hamsterley on 2 successive days this week on each bike. The Anthem flew through sections that in theory the Teocali should have had an advantage on, whereas the Teocali just didn't feel sorted.

The kit on the Teocali is good and I'll transfer it to another frame.

The Spitfire looks like a contender.

I like the look of the Nicolai Helius CC but can't find any info on the geometry as it's not on the Nicolai website.

Did you try other 140mm - 160mm bikes at all?

I only ask as I went from a Trance (4in) and Reign (6in) to a Zesty - and was surprised to find that was nippier than both.

Might not be the amount of travel but the suspension system you're not getting on with?

Cotic Hemlock ?

Do you do most of your riding sitting down per chance?
All my bike have slack angles on both the head tube & seat tube, thats why I don't get on with most 'normal' bikes, I'm lazy a ride seated quite a bit & find the slack seat tube angle keeps my weight way back & thats makes the bike more chuck-able as the effective TT is relatively long but the bike remains compact, look at 4X type bikes, they are point & shot machines that loose out a little in the climbing debt.
HTH.

I tend to stay seated on long climbs but will stand on the pedals on steep kicks but on descents and singletrack will usually stand.

I've not tried many other longer travel bikes so it could just be the Teocali I have an issue with. It does have a very short top tube for it's size and feels like you're hanging over the front end.

It could be your technique, I can't see why you would feel your weight is forward whilst standing, surely you would just get your arse over the rear more & put the weight back?
Seated gives you a lot less options, do you shift your weight a lot?

Sounds like the new Orange ST4 is what you are looking for.
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-orange-st4-ride-report-as-promised ]Review here[/url].
Everything that was good about the old frame but with added stiffness and GRRRRR.
Won't climb quite as well as your Anthem, but as very very capable on technical singletrack, technical climbs and descents.

Thanks for all your comments.

I don't think it's totally a technique problem as I don't have the same issue with the Anthem X.

It may in part be an oddity of the Teocali - a mate who has a Blur LT rode the bike and had the same feeling - that the head angle felt steeper than the 68.5 claimed and you feel too far forward on the bike - it's almost like the BB is too far forward in relation to everything else.

I think I've narrowed down my target list of frames to -
Helius CC
Chumba VF2
Intense Spider 2
Trek Fuel EX
Yeti ASR-5

I've ruled out the Zesty simply as I want only a frame and Zesty frames are like rocking horse poop.

My current budget dictates I'll be mainly looking at clearance frames and nearly new.

Do you do most of your riding sitting down per chance?
All my bike have slack angles on both the head tube & seat tube, thats why I don't get on with most 'normal' bikes, I'm lazy a ride seated quite a bit & find the slack seat tube angle keeps my weight way back & thats makes the bike more chuck-able as the effective TT is relatively long but the bike remains compact, look at 4X type bikes, they are point & shot machines that loose out a little in the climbing debt.

what on earth are you rambling on about?
4X bikes have their saddle height low to keep it out the way while squatting, jumping, pumping terrain and the saddle's only there to offer control for your inner thigh and isn't ever meant to be sat on except for waiting in line for the start gate. A proper 4X race bike will probably have the seat post chopped down to save weight.

4X bikes don't have especially slack head angles (normally 67-69deg) and certainly don't have slack seat angles.

Thanks GW, I feel better now...
FWIW I own an old a stiffee, an old azonic propulsion and a relatively new Pipedream Ti with the same geo as a stiffee, although I know 4X bikes are meant to be ridden out of the saddle, I did think they had a slack seat angle, & hence a longer effective TT whilst seated.
I have tried loads of regular XC frames & didn't get on with any of them, hence my ramble.
Cheers.

I managed to find a brand new 2008 Nicolai Helius CC frame for less than £600 so I've taken a punt on it.

Rear suspension adjustable from 88-129mm and built strong enough to do everything from XC to AM. I'll put my 140 Floats on it to start with but might change them for a set of Talas if I decide to sell the Anthem X.

The geometry sounds like what I'm looking for. At that price I decided it was too good a deal to pass up.

I'll update once the frame is built up - fingers crossed.