Fox Float X2 or cane Creek DB air CS??

looking for a new shock for my mk2 nomad to replace the rp23 currently on there, which i never been a 100% happy with, although improved greatly by getting it tuned.

currently consider the X2 or the DB air CS – what are people experiences of them, particularly in comparison to each other?

both similar price, weight, tuneability etc and performance seems to be pretty universally rated on both. the reviews i’ve read seem to suggest the X2 is a little easier to set up and sits up better in the mid stroke, but the DB air has the benefit of the climb switch – whilst not a deal breaker, would be useful to have. . apparently the 2017 X2 will come with some form of pro-pedal, but no idea when these are out – does anyone know any more?

fianlly any other options i should consider? typical riding for me is peak district, wharncliffe, lakes & north wales, few enduros per year and the odd uplift day

Ohlins coil? Adreani group will do custom tunes, last setting on three position high speed adjuster is actually a pedal platform.

Monarch Plus Debonair for less than half the price of any of those

(put the money aside for when we can’t get imperial sized shocks any more and have to upgrade frames)

Or the Vivid would appear to be in your price range

Ohlins coil? Adreani group will do custom tunes, last setting on three position high speed adjuster is actually a pedal platform.

thanks for the flag, but wanting to stick to an air shock

sideshow – Member
Monarch Plus Debonair for less than half the price of any of those

(put the money aside for when we can’t get imperial sized shocks any more and have to upgrade frames)

sideshow – Member
Or the Vivid would appear to be in your price range

they don’t appear to have the full tuneability on compression dampning like he float X2 or the DBair, or have i missed something?

anyone got any experience with the X2 or the DBair cs?

Not on a Nomad but have CC DB air CS, CC inline air and the Ohlins air, also had a Fox RP23 all on Katies, Abigales and mine S Works Enduros. The RP23 was the easiest to set up. Cant tell the diference between the Cane Creeks but we are light riders and neither are much if any better than the RP23. The Ohlins air is by far the better ride but dont think its readily available yet.

I ran a DB Air CS on a Nomad 3, and really didn’t rate it at all. I don’t know if it was the leverage curve of the bike, but it sucked. The Monarch Plus was a noticable improvement over it. It made the bike ride like a proper big, heavy slug. Even loading up the compression, it just felt dead & lifeless. It also had a really annoying soft spot about 25% into the travel, where it felt like a seal was folding over inside the can – TF basically said they all do that – it was the +/- chambers equalizing. Really quite noticable & annoying.

I have a Float X2 on my current bike, and would hands down recommend it over the CCDB. I’d probably go so far as saying all things considered, it’s the best shock i’ve ever ridden, and that includes my DH racing days of trying most stuff.

It’s really, really good. The lack of LSC lockout is no issue at all for me.

It made the bike ride like a proper big, heavy slug. Even loading up the compression, it just felt dead & lifeless.

@hobnob – i’ve found a few other user reviews saying similar since my first post, where as i’m yet to find poor reviews of the X2 (could just be that it’s still newish though).

spoke to Mojo about the climb switch / pro-pedal and they confirmed that the new 2017 models do have them on (they are also retrofitable to 2016 models) and they are due out in May. As theres no stock in the UK of the 2016 X2’s in the size i need i think i’ll hang fire for a few weeks and go for one of them

The leverage curve on most of the Santa Cruz VPP bikes means they risk being very overdamped in the first portion of travel and/or wallowy in the midstroke. CCDBs have a lot of adjustment but I can see it being hard to find a best compromise. You don’t need a climb switch or platform unless you like to run a huge or tiny chainring.

chiefgrooveguru – Member
The leverage curve on most of the Santa Cruz VPP bikes means they risk being very overdamped in the first portion of travel and/or wallowy in the midstroke.

are you referring to the X2 or the CCDB there?

OH has a X2 on his mk3 nomad and rates it highly. It replaced a monarch debonair plus which he did not like at all, it felt wallowly and notchy to him (and was eventually replaced under warranty). He also has a CCDBair CS on a bronson, as do I. He says the bronson is really good whenever he gets back on it but the X2 is a really phenomenal shock and feels truly plush and bottomless, no wallow whatsoever.

Any sort of shock – it’s a regressive-progressive curve, so it’s pushing a lot of oil in the first portion of the stroke. Linear or progressive leverage is much easier to tune a shock for.

Rock Shox have IMHO never made a good shock. I don’t see metric changing this. If you cannot spec a glide ring in current shocks that is not sticky and cannot coat a shock body internally and externally with anodising then I don’t see what a change in shock dimensions will do.

It’s going to depend on your bike tbh- partly, some designs benefit more from lockouts etc. But also some suspension designs just don’t seem to mix well with the CCDBs in general.

I’d have got an X2 if it had a climb switch. Though ironically, my bike has a fair amount of antisquat in it anyway so it’s not as essential as I’m used to from previous full sussers. The CCDB CS is very good too, though. It could easily be totally overwhelming with the settings- I think I’d be fairly lost if I hadn’t gone through all this with ohlins on motorbikes in the past.

The CCDB CS is very good too, though. It could easily be totally overwhelming with the settings- I think I’d be fairly lost if I hadn’t gone through all this with ohlins on motorbikes in the past.

Remember reading on pinkbike that they have to remove the rebound shims and use only the ports for damping, to make room for the climb switch?

Basically, they wen’t back to a pretty shitty port orifice only design to make it work.

Here we go

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-story-of-cane-creeks-new-dbinline-shock.html

On rebound we just have the poppet and the low-speed orifice; there’s no shims on the rebound side of the piston, just like in the DBair CS.

So basically, they went back to an outdated design to fit in a climb switch. Yay.

It’s going to depend on your bike tbh- partly, some designs benefit more from lockouts etc. But also some suspension designs just don’t seem to mix well with the CCDBs in general.

I’m going to guess, anything that doesn’t have a completely linear leverage ratio? Shim stacks are great because they can be made digressive, linear or progressive depending on the leverage ratio, riding style and weight. So I’m guessing (as a complete layman in terms of engineering) that a bike with a digressive or progressive leverage ratio, could end up feeling dead or pogo-sticky when coupled to a cane creek?

The X2 doesn’t make that compromise because it’s properly shimmed, so can be tuned and reshimed for a wide variety of bikes.

Tom_W1987 – Member

I’m going to guess, anything that doesn’t have a completely linear leverage ratio?

Nah. Though tbh I’ve never seen a good rule of thumb for it, so I’m not going to even try- just, it doesn’t seem to work well with some bikes.

FWIW I’ve used the CS and non CS, and a coil as well, and I’ve not found any real drawback to the CS damper design. It’s technically inferior yes but ime it’s still very effective.

Fox have IIRC done away with the rebound shim stack on the X2 main piston. They use port orifice for LSC and LSR and preload a shim stack for HSC and HSR adjustment.

Still a shimstack though, they just moved it away from the main piston as opposed to getting rid of them altogeher. Shims matter less for low speed stuff, I believe.

Cane Creeks just have spring loaded poppet valves as opposed to the preloaded shims/RVS things…

…I think…

….I’m not an engineer.

I did wonder about the CS damper because of this shim stack or not thing but I simply can’t fault it’s performance on my Spitfire over the last two years – it’s just so good at everything. The Spitfire has a very straightforward fairly strongly progressive leverage curve which makes life a lot easier for most shocks, be they high volume air or coil.

Bear in mind that even a simple orifice damper will have complex behaviour depending on fluid flow speed and on the Cane Creeks a high enough shaft speed will switch the flow from the low to high speed circuit, and high shaft speed is when damping control on rebound is most critical. A ‘dead’ feeling in a shock will occur when the damping overwhelms the rebound spring force around the sag point, not so its packing down deep in the travel but so the sense of pop or efficient pumping is dulled.

Point being, that switch is sudden. Where as with the X2, that transition between the low speed/high speed circuit is better controlled by the RVS design.

Again, I could be totally wrong – but the damping design within the valves on the Cane Creek SEEMS (major caveat, again, I don’t really know what I’m talking about) to be simpler.

It may be a sudden switch but I’ve never come across anyone who can feel it happening!

Maybe. However, all in all, considering CC’s current reliability reputation – I don’t understand why one wouldn’t just go for the Fox. You’ll be able to retrofit the on the fly low speed adjuster soon and by all accounts the build quality is higher and the stiction lower.

Go for the better made shock. On the days you want a bit more of a platformy feel, whack some more low speed compression on at the start of the day and then forget about it.

Personally, between the two shocks, I don’t think there is a question over which shock the OP should buy – it’s obvious. But, again that is my potentially bullshit opinion guys.

The DB Inline certainly had reliability issues but the rest of the Cane Creek range haven’t. If a bike needs more damping to pedal well, adding low speed compression at all times is a bad way to go about it. I suspect you could argue with your shadow! 😉

I’d buy the X2 every time.

If the low speed blows off quickly, it shouldn’t be much of an issue – should it?

Besides small bump grip on the back is for pussies anyway 😛

Set your shock up for 90 percent of your riding that day, and forget about stupid bloody climb switches. They’re a liability considering the amount of times people/me personally forget to turn them off.

Uplift day? Go full gnarpoon and set the rear shock up for maximum grip, enduro day, maybe add a tadd more compression, mincing around blue/red trails (with lots of fireroad climbs and bmx descents) – turn it up even further. etc etc etc

I haven’t changed the settings on my CCDBair in over 18 months and the only time I use the climb switch is to give me something to do to stave off the boredom on tarmac climbs to the trails. It’s a set and forget shock, unless you’re at the pointy end of racing and chasing marginal gains for each race.

Tom_W1987 – Member

They’re a liability considering the amount of times people/me personally forget to turn them off.

Ah, that’s the problem is it? Fair dos if you need a hardware fix for your software problem. But I always wonder how someone who struggles to deal with an on off switch can hope to set up a modern shock…

Or you just set your shock to cover the majority of the ground you’re riding that day, be done with it and enjoy your riding.

Climb switches will have a place once all shock manufacturers start pushing active suspension platforms – because it will be nice and intuitive and let you focus on riding as opposed to fiddling with your bike and worrying whilst riding.

Remote lockouts make things more intuitive as well, but I don’t think cane creek does one, do they?

Wanted a new shock for my Liteville 301 last September, to replace the RP23 and really fancied the Cane Creek – but it wouldn’t fit my frame

Went for the X2 and i’m very happy with it – just gives a lot more confidence than the RP23

Interesting to hear that i’d be able to upgrade to a climb switch soon – but to be honest – i’m not sure if i need it. I’d been keen on people feedback once they’ve had it fitted

X2 really is a proper quality bit of kit