have trawled the owners club forum on this subject and replacing the fuel filter was top of the list, have done this and still takes ages of cranking before car starts (51 plate 1.8 TDCi 138k). Anyone know what amps and for how long the glow plugs should draw said current so I can test them to see if the problem lies there (glow plugs replaced 30k ago). Also any other possible causes, car runs fine once started and returns min of 45mpg.

Cheers

votchy

Try activating the glow plugs 2 or 3 times before cranking engine over from cold – if that makes a difference then its probably glow plug related.
Otherwise it might be a small amount of air setling in the top of the fuel filter when left not running, have you tried bleeding the fuel system to see if that makes a difference?

Uncertain but would assume circa 40 amps (old Ford diesel 1.8 was this anyway. Should be on a relay as well that stays on ish once started – assuming you can reach you can run a wire direct to heaters – does it start any easier? NOTE this wire will get warm very quickly and you need a decent size 2.5 mm minimum and this is under size but only unsafe rather than dangerous!!!!

Glow plugs or duff battery would be my guess.

I’d get the battery checked. If the car is on it’s first battery, that battery is getting on a bit and diesels need a lot of juice to turn over.

Good suggestion above about cycling the glow plugs a few times before starting and seeing if this improves matters.

Not sure how old the battery is but it spins the engine easily, last night took about 10-12 seconds of cranking without any noticeable drop in cranking speed before finally spluttering to life

I doubt its the battery, otherwise it would struggle to turn the engine over.
My guess is glow plugs too. When it does start is there lots of black smoke?

No clouds of black smoke when it does start

Could be slight leak of air into the fuel system. IIRC We had an old fiesta 1.8 diesel van which was a complete sod to start first thing. Check that the fuel filter connections are nice and tight. Given this was replaced then i doubt it is that.
Or it could still be the glow plug(s).

If this problem just started in the recent cold spell it might be the grade of diesel, if it doesn’t have enough winter additive it will turn to wax if it gets too cold. It might be that the cold snap caught out the suppliers and the filling stations are still selling warmer weather grade stuff. My Discovery usually fires up without needing pre heat, this morning it would not go at all, even with two or three goes on the glow plugs and long cranking sessions. As soon as the sun got on it it fired up no problems.

One technique, which I mention here for general interest but could not possibly recommend, is to crank it while someone holds a burning newspaper over the air intake. One of the few good uses for the Daily Mail.

…(sorry) what would black smoke on start up mean?

Long time ago I use to use an aerosol that was sprayed into the air intake to get diesels going. Canít remember what it was called but it smelled like ethanol

The aerosol was called Easystart – I used to work on farms a long time ago and that was the norn on old tractors.

Ah memories.

Worn out glow plugs. Almost certain. They will be on a relay linked to engine coolant temp. The warmer the engine the less time they will run for. On a cold engine some glow plugs will run for about 1 min , with varying levels of current draw. Maximum current initially t get the plugs hot and ease starting, this will be about 40 amps, then slightly less after the starter motor is disengaged. If you can remove them , connect directly to a batteyr via a thick cable. The tip should glow after 5 secs, the after 10 most of the electrode should be red.

If you burn them for say 2 lots of 10 seconds, then a 20 second burn , and the engine starts then that is more than likely the problem. If your car refuses to start then get either a hot air gun or , if your lucky , your partners hair dryer, and fire into the inlect tract downstream of the airbox, you need to do this ideally whilst cranking. Take care with hot air guns as on full power they can melt the rubber intake if wedged against th rubber, leave an air gap and you should be fine.

If the repeated burns and hot air do not get it going within 15 seconds cranking then stop. If you have to use ethe car then try a blast of WD40 into the intake tract whilst cranking. It will run like a bag of nails for the first 10 seonds, and is a last resort method.

It might be an air leak / bubbles forming in the injector pipes, but with this cold weather could be sticky derv. If you wish a tiny a mount of petrol likw 1-2 % can be added to thin down the derv and help with starting. Not too much mind, as you will get pre ignitin ,and possible carbon deposits as petrol burns faster and hotter than derv. Millers do a Cetane booster which can be used with the petrol to restore the cetane ( ability to ignite under preassure) rating as petrol reduces this as its higher in octane ( high octane = reluctance to ignite under compression )

HTH

Rob

Almost certainly the glow plugs, were having a bit of a run on them at the moment at work (Ford Dealer!). They will draw about 40 amps if they are all working, so if you have 30 amps, you will probably have 3 working etc… If you are going to be checking them, you need to be using an amp clamp and not a multimeter set up in line, as you will just burn out the meter. If you have a amp clamp, turn the ignition on whilst watching the reading, you will see an initial reading of about 100amps which drops and steady’s after about 5 seconds, this is your measurement. Best way to check though is to remove them, and short out across the battery using heavy cabling such as a jumplead. they will glow bright red after about 5 seconds if they are good.
OR.. could be a number of other things!! such as cam position senser (common problem, but usually suffer stalling aswell) Cam timing, air ingress to fuel system etc.
hope that helps
Mick

If this is a TdCi and not a Tddi then could it not be a faulty injector leaking back and loosing fuel pressur over night?

Common rail diesels don’t rely on glowplugs to start the same as rotary pump diesels did. -8 here in Carlisle this morning and my Tdi VW Caddy still fired up without heating the glow plugs.

Thanks for all the advice, will try shorting the plugs to see if they glow

Sounds like glowplugs. Easiest test is to get a multi meter and test them in situ (well that’s what I did on the merc. The one that has gone is the one that has a resistance tending towards infinity.

One end on the glow plug, one on the engine block.

The one that’s gone will be the hardest one to reach to replace. It *always* is.

another tip for starting a cold diesel engine, possibly a bit safer than the burning mail, hold a rag soaked in petrol over the air intake and turn the engine over,
Once saw this done with an old tractor that refused to start 1 day, petrol + rag = fired up straight away….

Glow plugs or battery in this weather. Go to kwik fit and get them to test the battery [free]but by sounds of it it’s fine. 15k on glowplugs could mean that they’ve gone and to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me. Glowplugs are known to go after 3000m, halfrauds ones and beru are especially bad. Got Bosch in mine now and are doing well even at -8 where last year it was struggling around freezing. Honkie, if it’s a faulty inector then it would smoke on start up

I actually posted this problem on FFOC a while back for my 03 1.8 TDCI 110k. I had all the advice given above. I changed the glow plugs, which is not too difficult to do, it helped but did not cure the problem. I changed the fuel filter thinking there might be a slight air leak here, no improvement. The car got to the point that it would not start from cold without being jumped from another car because it would just run the battery down.
Eventually took it to a Ford main dealer for a service and to get them to see if they could identify the cause. After spending quite a time checking things out and asking about the cars service history the mechanic decided that the starter motor was at fault because it was drawing too much current and dropping the battery voltage down to around 8.5 volts. Apparently the engine electronics do not function below 9.3 volts.
I was quoted a whopping £235 for them to supply and fit a replacement, my local garage supplied and fitted an exchange unit for £130.
Since the starter was replaced the car starts instantly hot or cold.

Success at last after many months of head scratching and messing about to sort it.

Grim

Awesome advice grim,nice one.

Oil is too thick.
i believe you can get winter oils.
the engine has to reach a critical RPM to get enought compression to ignite the fuel, if the thick oil is dragging slightly it will slow it down enough to stop it from igniting, but as the battery and starter are fine it will turn over fine.

Right, at the weekend I dropped the glowplugs out and shorted them across the battery, glowing red after 5 seconds. Also tested battery voltage, 12.3V across terminals, voltage at glow plugs 11.9V, voltage at battery with everything on at tickover 14.3V so alternator seems to be charging ok, is 12.3V a bit low and would it be wise to replace battery? also, following the warning about the starter motor, if the engine was cranked before the glow plugs got hot the power to the plugs would dissappear. Anyway, current situation is turn ignition on, wait 5 seconds then crank and engine starts on second or third turn.

Thanks for all the advice

slight hijack. Is there any reason why fuel economy would drop on a diesel during cold spells? I reckon I’ve dropped about 10% recently but it was back up again today?

theotherjonv – most cars mpg, petrol or diesel will drop by about that amount in the cold

I would not rely on Voltage as a way of diagnosing a good battery,12.3v means nothing.Cold cranking Ampage is the recognised method using a Fluke meter.I would say most garages/tyre services should check your battery for free.
I would also test the battery acid as this can identify faulty cells and shortages in the battery itself.

I would take it into a Garage and get the charging and starting system checked,grims problem sounds very simelar.

If the battery is over three to four years old it could be worth replacing it anyway,as its an easy job, but it really is a process of elimination.
From your origional post it sounds more fuel related to me,assuming you have checked all conections to pipes etc.are there any pipes rubbing? causing air to get in to the system.If its had a clutch there are pipes that need routing properly once the Bell housing has been refitted. I would check these,there just above the gear/cable selector mechanism.

good luck and keep us informed.

Last winter my TDCI (125k miles) was poor to start with long cranking and starting up on only 3 cylinders. I blamed the heater plugs at the time, because I thought it mostly seemed to be turn round OK.

But.. new batttery, and no problems this winter. I really did nothing else to it, and haven’t changed the heaters!