is it meant to be this difficult!?

its annoying that i don't really know what i want to do, and that while my degree in sustainable development is interesting, its not really helped me define my career path…

an internship last summer only confirmed that i don't want to work for development NGOs, and the only other real experience recently is some voluntary work with the BTCV, which while worthwhile, only really aided my knowledge of clearing paths and picking up litter…

then there was my ultimate grad training scheme with the forestry commission, whereby interviews were given on a first come first serve basis – great had my laptop not decided to pack in 2 minutes before the email applications opened – 200 in the first 2 minutes, and by the time i had woken my housemate, transferred the application form across to his laptop, 500 had applied (within 8 minutes…)
so i properly missed out on that one.

add into the fact that i'm wanting to emigrate to canada or the US, i just don't know where or how to look, and what to look for…!

aaagh!!!

any ideas/tip/jobs?!
gonna graduate in june, most prob with a 2:1 from st andrews… 😉

🙁

That's gonna be relevant to a lot of jobs in the future – you will have the background knowledge behind many of the initatives being brought in.

Took me 5 years after graduating to find a relevant job I enjoyed though, so good luck 😉

join the queue. finished an msc in environmental sciences (hydrology/ climate change) in august and still nothing. this is the time to get all your applications in- graduate schemes are where i am looking, but then i am going down a slightly different path to you.

also had a look at the FC graduate scheme but it seemed very abstract what they were looking for and decided that it was definitely not where i wanted to be. other thing is looknig for short term internships- my uni has sent me some info on a couple of 2/3 month placements specifically for graduates who can't find employment during this recession.

the other plan is speculative applications. as many have told me, half of all environmental jobs are not advertised as they realise there are enough people out there- well none of my speculative applications have got me anywhere.

basically, you are screwed like the rest of us. i would have a word with your lecturers or uni career service if you have one. it seems that it is not what you know, but who you know. get networking! however, none of my contacts have said anything good- the EA have now stopped hiring to increase their workforce and have returned to one in one out technique. might be more jobs the following year (or so i am told), so maybe you should save up some money and head over to the US for some travelling?

yeah, the duture aspect of the degree will hopefully help, i wish my degree title was easy to explain though, the term SD is so vague it means totally different things to different people…
internships is a route i'll probably look into though, and possibly mix travel in with voluntary work to get some experience…

hmmm…

Hmm, all the degree courses I've applied for are in the evironment sector. 😐

E.A. who employ me have a total freeze on recruitment, we have had 2 of our E.O's leave in the last 5 weeks and havent been replaced.

Yep the E.A in my area has stopped all recruitment in all areas.

Ahooooo ho ho ho, Environmental sector jobs, haha!…… oh, your serious!

tis utter ass. my only suggestion, if it possible (fresh from uni) is be flexible with your location.
if you tie yourself to an area, your as good as sunk.

get onto Matchtech, and be the one grad who will "go anywhere theres something on offer"

recruitment companies love that, and you jump up their priority list (IME)

even if its not ideal, if its in the sector your looking for, and you can ride out the current situation, your the one person whos had a job, vs the piles of people who have been out of work when it comes to getting something better.

(except lab work, my pervious employer did state she didnt hire "lab monkeys", though not sure exactly why, she hired me instead, and i was a Kitchen Porter)

http://www.endsdirectory.com/

not a bad place to start

and

http://www.earthworks-jobs.com

like illy said, be preped to relocate.

And maybe lower your £££££ expectations. A guy who does our emissions testing cannot believe the aspirations of "kids" just out of uni re £££. As he put "they want more than I pay myself" (he is self employed)

In the same boat here, tis gash. Going back to IT as soon as I can (would be already had I not fluffed an interview…)

I've found for every job there are tens or hundreds of applications, all of whom have more experience. Arse to that. Its very much a case of not what you know but who you know.

Took me around 8 years to get a reasonable wage in consultancy, had to start on peanuts to get the experience. Get a MSc under your belt at least if you want to go into the public sector (we won't shortlist without one). IME consultancy pay is pi** poor for the hours you're required to work and the conditions especially in emissions testing are crap (two weeks outdoors in this weather isn't fun). But it gets the CV filled-up.
I never imagined I'd end-up doing what I do now but it's great, bloody hard work getting here but I enjoy it now. Fourteen years since my first degree though. We have also frozen recruitment unless we can show a real need to replace someone.

Good luck!

nice to hear some positive words… 😕

i think the low paid/voluntary sector is definitely going to be my best option. that or internships…

bah. guess its the cost of doing a 4 yr degree and having had a gap year. by the time i'm done i'll have friends who graduated 2 years ago and are well on their way…

Genuiley reconsidering my options after reading a few of the above.. – sorry to hijak btw.

bah. guess its the cost of doing a 4 yr degree and having had a gap year. by the time i'm done i'll have friends who graduated 2 years ago and are well on their way…

Not necessarily. My daughter got her teaching job because she was a "mature" student compared to the others on the course + she has an MA in art which was a transferable skill for primary school teaching apparently

Have you thought above teaching science, assuming it is transferrable? You may get paid to do the course.

have thought about teaching – from what i understand its in demand in NZ – another emigration option. but its just not something i want to do.

have to say, i'm not looking forward to graduating, its all a bit daunting!!

any ideas/tip/jobs?!

Volunteer? Get onto RSPB in Edinburgh or one of the reserves nearby – Vane Farm or SWT, or one of the record Centres / Museums. Fife would be your nearest.
Be prepared to take an admin / low grade post within SNH – jobs here http://www.snhjobs.co.uk/html/home.htm ?
Its a tough way in, but once you are in, things can improve.

I'd forget about SEPA, as they are in a similar position to EA darn sarth. Another option could be the new Marine Scotland agency.

Just be prepared to start on a bottom rung and work up from there. Good luck.

EDIT: There's also seasonal work as wardens etc., which are definitely worth considering – warden at St Cyrus or on Rum perhaps 🙂

thanks geoffj, i'll have a look at SNH…

i guess so long as i've got somewhere to mtb i'll be relatively happy…

My missus is an environmental consultant for one of the big private orgs. and the amount of redundancies throughout all levels over the last year and a half has been staggering. If you are determined to follow this path I would suggest you will need an MSc and membership of IEMA.

I'd like to see some statistics for the number of graduates end up working in a career that their degree was relevant to. Both overall and then broken down by degree type. None of my family who have earned degrees have ever end up working in the field that their degrees were aimed at.

Not trying to be negative just interested.

Have you thought of the Water/Waste Water industry? Have a look at http://www.waterjobs.co.uk and Google for others.

Best of luck. After holding down my first job for 23 years, then my next for 6 years my last two have both lasted for about 5 months each. I've been out of work for 5 months again now. 150 applications, about 20 turn downs from application and one failed interview I know how you feel.

How about doing an MSc in Environmental Health? Can follow a pollution route and it's a background that a lot of our most recent recruits have come from. There is a shortage of EHPs too, but also a shortage of cash to recruit them in local government. Have a look at ENDS, EHN in addition to the sites listed above.

Just be prepared for a long long slog working for nothing to build experience and when you land the job getting paid enough to make you phenominal value in many other sectors for an equivelent post.

Public sector normally pays better than voluntary sector and FC seems to pay best of all. Anything with the words trust, wildlife or national in its name will have relatively low wages. There is still an ethos that people do it for the love – fine if your a city type career changer. Thats one of the other downsides you'll be going up against a lot of people making mid-life lifestyle choices.

Money is going to be tight and get tighter in the environmental sector as government spending is cut. Ultimately most projects rely on the government directly or indirectly. There are going to be less jobs and more and more experienced people chasing them.

Cant comment on plc's etc as not worked for any of them.

Any post no matter how short is worth going for to get experience. I started with the organisation I work for on a six month contract. Still here over 3 years later. The downside is dont expect a permenant post 2-3 years seems to be average 5 years is good. If your in the public sector its generally application rather than promotion for moving up the levels.

MSc is worth having, as is any business skills or project management training you can get. If your on the dole and they still do the 6month courses with placements take advantage of. Consider VSO, dont pay to work anywhere. Groundwork used to run 6month training courses. Or get involved with your local legitimate trail building group – people like singletraction have to work within constraints, issues, legislation, permissions and consents etc that I do in my day job. Its a good way to get your head round the countryside management sector.

If your going to volunteer then know what you want to get out of it. A good organisation wont treat you as slave labour.

Took me 16 years to get where I wanted to be but now I'm here its just brilliant. Large projects, large areas and big kit. Probably very high up the list of great office locations (that really exist) for mountain bikers in the UK.

Countryside jobs service is another one for adverts.

And after all that some times its just luck and being in the right place at the right time.

Not being flippant HM but after reading that lot I'd be tempted to retrain as a plumber or some other trade- you'd probably end up earning more as well.

I would suggest you will need an MSc…

Not making that much of a difference IME, simply because there are no jobs around for said qualifications to be of any use!
Four years of uni and an MSc at the end of it has got me…a job in a warehouse. Huzzah!

its annoying that i don't really know what i want to do

This is the problem – you can't expect employers to give you a job in a competitive environment if you yourself aren't even sure if you really want to do it or not.

Doing more voluntary work (and really throwing yourself into it) is probably the best way to gain experience/skills and work out what you really want to do imo.

It took me 12 years to get a job related to my Geography degree, now a happy Environment Officer with EA.

thanks ever so much for the comments guys, i'll give them all a goon indepth read tomorrow and save this thread for reference.

the more i think about it, the more i'm thinking voluntary sector for a while, spending some savings.

i guess if i wanted to focus more, the areas i am particularly interested in are the extractive industries, forestry, waste and water… still rather vague though…!

have thought about teaching – from what i understand its in demand in NZ – another emigration option. but its just not something i want to do.

Sorry to p1ss on your shoes but you'll probably struggle to get throughthe points system without relevant experience. We have a recession here too 🙂

I wouldnt hold your breath for water jobs at the moment. After the OFWAT determinations last year there is a lot of efficiency saving going on.

My wife works for IEMA and membership is definitely something to look at for the Environmental Sector.

For the guy looking at a degree course – the jobs market now is not going to be a good reflection on what it will be in 4 years time when you graduate, and there is no fun in spending 4 years studying something you are not interested in!

is it meant to be this difficult!?

Fraid so. It's difficult normally; have you not seen all the news items about how hard it is to find graduate jobs now?

Sorry to p1ss on your shoes but you'll probably struggle to get throughthe points system without relevant experience. We have a recession here too

good job i'm not keen on teaching then 😉

*looks at IEMA*

For the guy looking at a degree course – the jobs market now is not going to be a good reflection on what it will be in 4 years time when you graduate, and there is no fun in spending 4 years studying something you are not interested in!

i can vouch for that… 😕

again, thanks so much for the constructive comments, while its a bit gutting having my suspicions confirmed, i'm sure there will be light at the end of the tunnel, and if it gets me travelling around doing different projects here and there, then its all good i guess…

Until last year I was a Project Manager for a contaminated land Remediation Company, I have an Environmental Pollution Science degree, and a WAMITAB level 4 technically competent manager. I've worked in the EA in two regions in two different functions and in total have 15 years experience in the environmental sector.

The bad news is that there are plenty of experienced professional like me out of work right now, as well as the continuing inputs into the market of wildly enthusiastic graduates.

Market conditions in this sector in the last 18 months have been very poor, and the size of the potential workforce far outstrips the current vacancies since it imploded at the beginning of last year.

Employers are being very picky filling vacancies, since there are so many applicants they can make sure that the person they employ is 100% right for the job.

As has been said, your biggest chance is going for everything, irrespective of location. Regrettably, thats not something I get a choice with, with kids in good schools, family nearby, etc… 🙁

Basically words like environment and sustainable development have very broad and wide ranging definitions, so as you've identified you really need to knuckle down and focus on what specific areas you're interested in.

also try
environmentjob.co.uk and http://www.lowcarbon.com/ for jobs and voluntary placements.

Voluntary work might be a good bet for the time being. Get some proper experience under your belt and decide what you'd like to be doing.

By the way there are quite a few jobs available in wales at the moment as the welsh government insists on implementing it's own versions of environmental policies and regulations, which leads to jobs not only in government but in ngos and consultancies as well.

My advice is not to bother. In all honesty, the hours and pay in consultancy (field ecology, planning, CFSH etc. which I assume you are going for) are ridiculous (17K with anti-social / dangerously long working hours seems to be the norm for a starter). A lot of people I worked with struggled to maintain a relationship with their girlfriend due to the hours, and a fair few people had car accidents.
The hours are ridiculous for a good reason – there are people queueing up to do it for free. If you can get in with one of the large engineering firms and specialise, you are likely to have considerably better pay, conditions and prospects.

Voluntary work is something I am dead against. I've done a couple of days scrub bashing and hedge laying with charities, and I couldn't see how it was going to get me anywhere. Despite that, everyone will tell you need to volunteer to get on the ladder. To me, volunteering as a career move is simply another mechanism that reinforces the advantages of the wealthy, and acts to drive down wages.

The other issue is that a lot of voluntary / charity groups are useless. One of our undergrad assignments was to critique a management plan – several of us picked ones from a Wildlife Trust (with a fair number of paid staff), and they were unspeakably poor.

However, if you do want to get into consultancy, my advice is to get in touch with every single one you can find, and ask them about seasonal work. Most will employ people before graduation to help with newts / bats / reptiles from Feb to September, and this can translate into real jobs. Some will even pay you an hourly rate to do the work! If you stick in the sector, this will probably be the best paid period of your life for a few years – at one point I was managing to clock in > 60 hours a week, all of them in daylight and expenses for 700 miles a week. When they take you on as a perm, you're salaried and you will struggle to ever see your time in lieu, let alone overtime.

And yes, spec apps are the way to go. Most jobs are not advertised well, if at all, most consultancies don't have the cash kicking around to spend on recruitment firms, and don't have any dedicated HR staff.

I would suggest you will need an MSc…

disagree.

MSc gets you MSc expectations, but a graduate is a graduate.
an MSc doesnt come close to the value of actual experience for private sector work. public sector seems to work very differently, so maybe the case over there, but thats about to be shredded by belt tightening anyway

i reckon it can be as much of a hinderance as a benefit if your looking for a job with the objective of getting some experience.

hungry monkey – if you're able to, stick in uni for another year and do an MSc or have you considered research (phd, research masters)? Allows you to stay in an environment where living costs are cheap(er), free overdrafts, voluntary work when time allows, etc until next year when things will have picked up significantly.

I work for a firm of consulting engineers in Edinburgh and we're seeing a surge of work heading our way very soon so even by the summer there will likely be plenty more jobs around as construction projects kick off again. Perhaps not the area you'd imagine working in (my degree is Environmental Geoscience) but its still a job and is a stepping stone to other work.

At least you get paid BTCV graduate type posts in Scotland and NI.

I did a human biology degree, spent 3 years doing jobs I didn't want to do, then went and did an MSc (with funding) in Wastes Management. Halfway through the MSc I started applying for jobs like crazy and got a job in Wastes Consultancy lined up for the MSc finishing.

I didn't enjoy it. Spent 3 years there, worked up to £26k with immediate potential to go up a couple of thou but then redundancies hit.

I decided it was time for a change and set up a gardening and grounds maintenance business for myself. I now have contracts worth more than what I was paid before and still 2 days per week free (in addition to weekends) to make more from ad hoc and new domestic jobs. I have no boss, no targets to meet other than whatever I feel I want to do, no bad feeling when I wake up in the morning and I am a completely new man.

That is my experience, everyone is different.

I agree with others here, seriously look at MSc courses and choose carefully. They are very practical courses, much more applicable to the working world than BSc etc. Do a part time job in the summer related to the discipline as this will be viewed favourably by potential employers.

The other option worth looking at is an MBA. Your knowledge in the environmental sector, combined with business skills, could see you earning massively more than a consultant ever will. Go to any trade shows, conferences, presentations that you can and meet people. It takes a long time to build up a network but it's worth it and if an environmental business knows your name when they have a job opportunity there's a better chance they'll give you a call before advertising.

Stick at it, don't give up, and best of luck.