I will lose my line of work if we leave. I will be voting to stay.

Do you import Toblarone?

This is a brilliant programme about why Europe behaves as it does, parts of history that we have put to bed is still very raw in some areas and guides their thinking, as do more recent events. Made me think hard about my personal position on the EU.

It’s 38 mins well spent IMO: clicky linky

Do you import Toblarone?

Would you believe that my ex used to do (and I think still does) just that? And Dime bars 🙂

Unbelievable

Lunacy

Cameron has just abdicated any credibility – not fit to govern.

This is a vote to break up the Union. There is no way that Scotland of Wales would stay OUT with England (NI & the Union being a different ball park)

Little England gone mad…

As someone who is pro EU, I have the view that we should be in the Euro, in banking union…in all the way, because that’s the only place where we can fight our corner. Instead, we just bitch from the sidelines while Europe continues on regardless, and after CMD has his way, even less say in the laws and rules made that we would still have to follow.

I’m looking forward to the day when the rest of the EU gives us two options:

1: Stay in the EU, with all the economic benefits, but all the rules and regs that go along with belonging to such a club,

2: Oh, you want all the benefits of free trade etc, but none of that pesky “socialist” rules and regs stuff? Well you can **** off.

I hear in 2008 the total cost for that year direct costs and indirect costs came to 65Billion pounds
Just what did we get for that contribution.

European costs to UK

But in saying that is it was obviously said today that was countries within the European union
bothered if we was not in it and most said no.
With the obvious threat for trade But if we do opt out EU will certainly miss the huge sums of money
we give each year in to what we get back as EU aid.

Don’t hold your breath El-bent. Just listen to Merkel today. The Europeans are not (that) stupid and they know that they will lose in UK exits? It’s facile to think that is would happen/they wpuld let this happen in isolation.

: Oh, you want all the benefits of free trade etc

This was available to everyone years ago before the €uro

2: Oh, you want all the benefits of free trade etc, but none of that pesky “socialist” rules and regs stuff? Well you can **** off.

Nope. We pay our way, and Europe knows it.
27(?) members, 9 of which are nett contributors. We are the second highest nett contributor.
They want our money’s and tell us how to run our affairs?
They can **** off.

It’s a mystery to me how the uk manages to trade so much with the states what with us being outside of Nafta – we are also constantly told that we could not trade with eu member states from outside despite the fact the rest of the world manages to do this pretty well.

Don’t hold your breath El-bent. Just listen to Merkel today. The Europeans are not (that) stupid and they know that they will lose in UK exits? It’s facile to think that is would happen/they wpuld let this happen in isolation.

Some of those “Europeans” are stupid, namely us. We will blink first.

The UK is not the only member that has issues with the EU the way it is.
The end result may well be an EU where the wishes of Germany and France aren’t the prevailing ones with the likes of Holland, Denmark and Sweden and us driving how far and fast Europe moves.

So, grantway, you quote costs from a clearly anti-EU site. How do you calculate the wider costs a d benefits of membership?

Or, for that matter, the wider costs and benefits of an exit?

It seems to me that the “net contributor” status is as polarised as the UK economy…
Many of the English regions, as well as areas of Wales, Scotland & NI are beneficiaries of EU funding. Do the financial justifications of the exit proponents include the UK sourced funding of the less economically productive areas of the UK?

Or are we back to my point about “little England” – London, the SE and other well off parts want out…

Nope. We pay our way, and Europe knows it.
27(?) members, 9 of which are nett contributors. We are the second highest nett contributor.
They want our money’s and tell us how to run our affairs?
They can **** off.

Access to markets my Friend. We pay a small amount and as a result get to have free trade with 26 other member’s, the majority of which we can provide the type of sophisticated services that a “Western” country requires.

“Run our affairs”, do they? Perhaps this is a complaint that our Government both past and present have opted out of so much decision making, that it is perceived that they do. Don’t look at them, look at ourselves. Always bitching from the sidelines.

Do the financial justifications of the exit proponents include the UK sourced funding of the less economically productive areas of the UK?

Yes. All subsidies are taken into account. Obviously nobody can measure exactly what the benefit is to trade so that cannot be calculated, we do need to stay in IMHO but we also need to be able to handle our own shit.

Access to markets my Friend. We pay a small amount and as a result get to have free trade with 26 other member’s, the majority of which we can provide the type of sophisticated services that a “Western” country requires.

Absolutely. The message from the EU seems to be shut up, give us your money and do as we say. No thanks. We’ll stay in, continue to contribute and in turn benefit from trade arrangements but make our own decisions on what we do within our borders thanks.

rkk01 – Member

Unbelievable

Lunacy

Cameron has just abdicated any credibility – not fit to govern.

This is a vote to break up the Union. There is no way that Scotland of Wales would stay OUT with England (NI & the Union being a different ball park)

Little England gone mad…

err, the Jocks are voting to leave the Union (and as a consequence the EU)

any independence vote by Wales would do the same

I’m sure they’ll get good terms of membership when they reapply 😉

You may find that one of the key players in the EU over the next few will be Poland. It’s economy is growing and healthy. I’m tending towards agreeing with El-bent, that we should be fully integrated.

Many of the English regions, as well as areas of Wales, Scotland & NI are beneficiaries of EU funding. Do the financial justifications of the exit proponents include the UK sourced funding of the less economically productive areas of the UK?

how do you know? the EU’s accounts haven’t been signed off by their internal auditors for well over 10 years, they don’t even know where the money goes

Cent!
Hundert!
Ciento!
Céad!
Cem!
Honderd!
?????!
Sto!

You may find that one of the key players in the EU over the next few will be Poland. It’s economy is growing and healthy.

all that money pumped in by the EU and expatriate workers is doing wonders

Yes. All subsidies are taken into account. Obviously nobody can measure exactly what the benefit is to trade so that cannot be calculated, we do need to stay in IMHO but we also need to be able to handle our own shit.

But that’s the point – we don’t manage our own shit. I fully accept the maths-draw a line around the UK an we’re a net contributor, but the regional variations will give a different balance. If the UK wants to invest more strongly in the regions, then great. Whilst central London is more akin to NY, some of the places around here are more akin to Poland, Romania or even Albania (without offence etc)

I have the view that we should be in the Euro

Yeah – just look at all the benefits the countries who are in have got from being a part of that. Thankfully GB had a lot more sense than you do.

Oh, you want all the benefits of free trade etc, but none of that pesky “socialist” rules and regs stuff? Well you can **** off.

Strangely they don’t appear to say that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

big n daft, my point was that I can’t see Wales or Scotland wanting to remain part of the UK if the party of well off England wants to remove England from the UK.

I can’t wait until all the Balkan states join up, let’s just hope a bit more diligence is used when they run an eye over their accounts than they’ve managed in the past

But that’s the point – we don’t manage our own shit. I fully accept the maths-draw a line around the UK an we’re a net contributor, but the regional variations will give a different balance.

Of course, but its all one economy. If the UK were to pull out theoretically there would be more money to spend on the regions than they currently get from the EU. The reality may be vastly different though, as trade could be negatively affected, leaving less money. This is the bit nobody really knows.

rkk01 – Member

big n daft, my point was that I can’t see Wales or Scotland wanting to remain part of the UK if the party of well off England wants to remove England from the UK

for the jocks it’s a mute point, they can vote for independence, leave the Union and the EU before anyone in England even gets to vote in the general election never mind a referendum. The EU will force them to reapply as there are too many other regions in Europe which what self determination

the Welsh will not have much of a choice and UKIP is already polling 12% there so they may vote “no” anyway, if they manage to throw together an indepdendance campaign off the back of a EU in/out vote it’s a circular argument as independance means leaving the EU and reapplying as it does for the Jocks

Yeah – just look at all the benefits the countries who are in have got from being a part of that. Thankfully GB had a lot more sense than you do.

Yeah, they believed in continuous growth and put their money into all sorts of schemes, us in poundland would never do such a thing…oh, hang on…

Strangely they don’t appear to say that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

They don’t. I merely translated it into “British” so people like you could understand.

leaving the EU means MORE red-tape when dealing with EU member states

why would we want to do that to ourselves in the middle of a global recession?

and of course ensuring that lorry drivers and doctors can work 48 hr shifts with no sleep is a great thing

I think we’d like to do a bit more imprisonment for questioning without that pesky ECHR sticking its nose into our affairs. And can we have bent bananas back please?

I heard we are getting cube shaped cucumbers. 10cmx10cmx10cm.
I mean, really; metric? FFS

What’s a cm?

Is that some pesky continental measurement? Like croissants for breakfast?

Yep. The b’stards even measure stuffs different.
WTF is a crroissant? Sounds like a worm or sumfin.

If we leave the Eu does that mean we can get all Daily Mail and stem the flow of Eastern European immigrants ? I mean how many car washes do we need ?

@Big-n-daft – Poland is receiving the pump priming we received up until recently. Had the joy of 3 years working for an economic development QUANGO in the UK and saw the money pumped our way from the EU in the 90s, it was considerable, and a lot was wasted. Seems the Poles are using it a little better.
If they are using the taxable income of their nationals working overseas then all credit to them, we allow our ex-pats to earn tax free.

Reminds me…

When on a cycling holiday in Brittany. One of our hotels was, erm, a bit low budget and run by some Londoners. The girl on reception, fresh from somewhere here asked us, “In the morning, will you be wanting an Oriental breakfast?”

how any UK MTBer can slag off the EU is beyond me

http://www.7stanes.com/7stanes-history-c104.html

http://mbwales.com/en/content/cms/news/massive_new_trail_in/massive_new_trail_in.aspx

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8BGRDE

weve done very well out of it!

Blimey, he may have pulled it off!!

Angela Merkel created a small breathing space for David Cameron on Wednesday when she gave a guarded response to his landmark speech on Europe, paving the way for the prime minister to campaign in favour of an in-out referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU at the next election.

As most European leaders rejected Cameron’s demands for a radical overhaul of the terms of Britain’s EU membership, the German chancellor indicated she was open to negotiating a “fair compromise”.

Source: Gurniad

Much shrugging of shoulders in the French media and a feeling a vote will at least clarify the UK position in Europe. To paraphrase Europe 1 this morning. “They’ve had one foot in and one foot out for 40 years”.

Waving my expired British passport I want in. The EU has enabled me to work where Ive wanted, trade as I’ve wished and prosper.

Waving my French passport I’m not much fussed. On a practical level it’s stil a pain to visit the UK with its foreign currency and barmy immigration officials, and I can’t see the ConLabLibs doing anything to restrict trade, just the rights of their own people.

Cameron has just abdicated any credibility – not fit to govern.

Dave ever had credibility? Who knew? His failure to deliver a parliamentary majority (against Gordon Brown FFS!), and subsequent poll ratings would suggest otherwise, in most peoples minds. And he knows it!