My most pressing concern about brexit is will I need a visa for travelling to races ? 🙂

Like those infamous hard borders between The EU and Lichtenstein

That would be Lichtenstein who are part of the Schengen Area and the EEA and have to apply relevant EU laws.
So just like Switzerland. How do you think that will go down with the “regain sovereignty” lot.

And again ninfan manages to derail discussions on 2 fronts by arguing over semantics and his deliberate misreading of accounts.

If solutions were so simple we would have got there by now. Either that or the government is refusing to implement them. Which is it and why have we wasted all this time.

Simply not true, customs do spot checks, as in the video above

If you read the comments below the video you posted you’d know that

A ) what they are doing is a VRT (Vehicle Registration Tax) check not “customs”, they are pulling northern reg cars with Irish insurance discs.

B ) everyone was mightily pissed off about it

Hello ninfan – care to answer my question?

ninfan – Member
Ninfan – border solutions that are actually practical and will be acceptable to all parties
The border solution in Switzerland appears to be acceptable to the EU

You do know that Switzerland is effectively in the CU and single market, right? (albeit by virtue of some horribly complex rules that neither they nor EU like, but they had to do it that way because of their political system and needing to have referendums on everything)

[TJ, not your dancing monkey… I ought to just leave you screaming for attention, as I’ve been busy answering far more interesting posts than yours.

However

Switzerland hasn’t adopted all EU regs,

see here: https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/

The Swiss relationship with the EU is different to Norway’s.
It’s also got a trading relationship through the European Free Trade Association, without being part of the European Economic Area.
This also involves taking on EU laws. But instead of laws constantly flowing into its legal system, it negotiates new treaties or amends old ones in return for access to the single market and other EU activities. Some of the important treaties are linked, so that if Switzerland or the EU pulls out of one, the others also collapse.
This system means that Switzerland doesn’t formally lack control over its own laws.

Happy now?

How are you going to stop migration over an open border?

like at present?

You do not need to have a passport in order to enter the other country. However, all air and sea carriers require some form of identification and some regard a passport as the only valid identification. Immigration authorities may also require you to have valid official photo-identification which shows your nationality. As you are being asked to prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements, it is advisable to travel with your passport.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_uk.html

Or would you call that a “hard border”?

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone backed into so many corners at once as ninfan!

It is a perfect metaphor for the ‘negotiations’ as a whole (and I cannot even conceive of a time when I won’t be using quotation marks around the word ‘negotiations’).

The ‘negotiations’ really are nothing of the sort. They are merely window dressing for a humiliating climb down by the UK. A climb-down that May can’t sell to the nasties in her own party.

If a cliff edge Brexit is really on the cards there will be a second referendum – only the real lunatics would want to turn the UK into economic scorched earth out of spite.

It is irreconcilable and it would save an awful lot of bother if we just asked Barnier et al really nicely if they will take us ‘back’.

How are you going to stop migration over an open border?

We don’t need to. Migration isn’t a problem anymore.
342k people are leaving every year.

Let’s take the money saved on border security and spend it on our NHS instead. 😉

Ruthy Tank Commander wades into battle

My position on the current Brexit negotiations: pic.twitter.com/QDNiUwduWd

— Ruth Davidson (@RuthDavidsonMSP) December 5, 2017

The tory order of priority seems to be Self > Party > Country

Ninfan – so no answers then. There is not a hard border between the republic and the UK as we are both in the EU.

How are you going to stop migration fromn the EU to the UK across an open border?

That would be Lichtenstein who are part of the Schengen Area

I fail to see the relevance of Schengen area to the U.K./Ireland border situation 😆

There is not a hard border between the republic and the UK as we are both in the EU

Because we joined the EU in 1923 I presume?

The SNP’s Peter Grant says Theresa May is today being interviewed for the job of Scotland football manager because of her ability “to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”.

Switzerland hasn’t adopted all EU regs,

No one said that they do. Instead people were addressing your claim about the border between Switzerland and the EU. The point is to play they have had to accept plenty of laws without any say in making those laws.

So how do you think the “regain sovereignty” lot will handle that?

Also published on tab 9.9 of the pink book by ONS here:

Well I’ve done a search on that page and can’t find 350 anywhere.

Stepping away from petty nitpicking over semantics for a moment, I am quite pleased to see Ruth Davidson speak up for a pragmatic solution to the impasse.

Her statement is not going to be well received by the Conservative backbench Brexiteers, but if SNP, Labour, Tory moderates and Plaid are aligned on this then I wonder what the next steps are, will there be emergency debate in Parliament?

The real problem for May is of course that her credibility is shot with the EU negotiators now. She offered them a deal, they accepted it than she retracted her offer. Who is going to believe a word she says after that?

I fail to see the relevance of Schengen area to the U.K./Ireland border situation

Yeah I dont see it either. however you were the one who brought up the Lichtenstein border with the EU.

She offered them a deal, they accepted it than she retracted her offer.

This.
The EU now wait again for us to sort out internal differences between home nations with devolved powers and agreements in place. I can see why they think the UK really doesn’t know what it wants or how to achieve it…

only the real lunatics would want to turn the UK into economic scorched earth out of spite.

You’ve seen the people we’re talking about here, right?

They’ve continually doubled down on the ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ BS

They actively want no deal, so that in the resulting economic meltdown they can then effectively declare economic Martial law*, and force through policies that would have been unthinkable under anything remotely resembling normality. They’re unhinged hard-right zealots following some Ayn Rand inspired ‘Creative Chaos’ theory, and May is letting them call the shots because she is so pitifully weak

* They have already ensured themselves the powers to do this

She offered them a deal, they leaked a draft version and in doing so scuppered it

FTFY

Nope – thats not how it happened. You should know that.

they leaked a draft version

You have evidence of this?

May had cerdibility with the EU?

Pity at best, you cant look at Johnson, Davis Mogg etc and not feel a bit sorry for her!

You have evidence of this?

The fine upstanding Sammy Wilson said it on the radio.

You were expecting some? I do at least understand what I’m going to get when “negotiating” with ninfan, and set out my positions accordingly!

Maybe he does. Which would make that statement…

These are the tweets that caused the problems, the first set alot of hares running in the press, despite it being retracted four minutes later. The DUP decided to shoot those hares.

if only the hand-wringing lefties of stw had predicted that getting in to bed with the DUP was a stupid idea….

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/conservative-coalition-with-dup

I do wonder how an RTE reporter got that exclusive draft wording…

The DUP decided to shoot those hares.

You can imagine the phone call after reading those tweets – “we’re being ******* done over here, you can poke your agreement”

What appears to be funnier is the gradual, sinking realisation in the Irish govt that the EU is going to compromise on something tha5 doesn’t give them the guarantees that they said were a ‘red line’. Still, I suppose a 40bn hole in the EU budget was always going to take precedence over the inhabitants of craggy island

What appears to be funnier is the gradual, sinking realisation in the Irish govt that the EU is going to compromise on something tha5 doesn’t give them the guarantees that they said were a ‘red line’. Still, I suppose a 40bn hole in the EU budget was always going to take precedence over the inhabitants of craggy island

wow do you dislike the irish that much?

An the Irish hold a veto over any deal

An the Irish hold a veto over any deal

Minor detail.
Although unfortunately apparently so do the religious dinosaurs from the DUP thanks to the maybot strong and stable leadership.

You can imagine the phone call after reading those tweets – “we’re being ******* done over here, you can poke your agreement”

Not really, politicians are concerned about the perception of the deal as much as the detail, the press were reporting that the DUP had been sold out and that perception is clearly unacceptable to them. Everyone will grandstand for a few days to prove they can’t be pushed around, talks will hang by a thread, and then an agreement will be reached.

Good article in today’s Guardian by Fintan O’Toole, stating the bleeding obvious conclusion to those Brexit idiots who still refuse to face up to reality….

Hard Brexiters have just discovered Britain is weaker than Ireland

It was always stupid to turn the border issue into a face-off between mighty Britain and little Ireland. But that’s how the hard Brexiters and their Tory press allies chose to construe it.

Having done so, they might now ask themselves: if, for the first time in 800 years, Ireland is proving to be in a much stronger political position than Britain, what does that say about what Brexit is doing to Britain’s strength? It is being forced to accept what it claimed to be unacceptable, not because Ireland has suddenly become a global superpower but because it has the unflinching support of EU member states, the European parliament, and the EU negotiating team. There might be a lesson in there somewhere for a country facing a future without the allies it has long taken for granted.

Yorkshire is having none of these issues.

Yorkshire is having none of these issues.

What? You mean Lancashire is paying for the wall?

What? You mean Lancashire is paying for the wall?

We already have our wall in York, just needs patching in places…

According to the news, David Davis has suggested that “Regulatory Alignment” could be applied across the UK as part of compromise. Apparently, this isn’t the same as a wholesale adoption of EU regulations.

Would someone be able to explain the difference and how it would work?

Would someone be able to explain the difference and how it would work?

I think the theory is the UK’s rules are not the same as the EU’s but the outcome is, where necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live?page=with:block-5a26a3f183311a066ae8add5#block-5a26a3f183311a066ae8add5

Th G also notes yesterday’s doc said this would happen regardless of the outcome of trade talks (but for the whole UK is a condition of …).

Lots of semantic fudge. It’s another cave-in basically.