I’m tempted to agree – we’ve a hung parliament (despite what Jambas bloody thinks…) doesn’t that indicate an unsettled electorate?

brooess – Member
…Taking gunboats over to developing/poor countries and nicking all their resources is 18/18th century strategy but no longer effective… time we learnt to adapt…

Luckily you’ve still got Scotland. But there will be a period of adaptation coming up there too… 🙂

out of interest, what is the french term for french people working abroad what about the Germans, do they have the word ex-pat???

out of interest, what is the french term for french people working abroad what about the Germans, do they have the word ex-pat???

Henning Wehn likes to point out that foreigners in the UK are called ‘immigrants’ but Brits abroad are called ‘ex-pats’. It’s especially funny when it’s a German immigrant telling the joke 🙂

Henning Wehn likes to point out that foreigners in the UK are called ‘immigrants’ but Brits abroad are called ‘ex-pats’. It’s especially funny when it’s a German immigrant telling the joke

why i was curious, is it a UK thing, or do other countries have the same attitude?

essentially you are middle of the road and the electorate is not

Not true though is it?[/quote]

Which bit?

he is arguing labour and tories are to the right and left so presumably the libs are in the middle and not doing well electorally.

If more folk agreed with him then the libs would be one of the main two parties

Same word in French mrmo, les expatriés. Germans use Expat or Auswanderer.

Taking gunboats over to developing/poor countries and nicking all their resources is 18/18th century strategy but no longer effective… time we learnt to adapt

Can you give an example of where we did that (or something like it) recently, and where the French have differed?

Kuwait and Iraq.

Kuwait? Seriously?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/french-doctor-is-moving-back-home-after-20-years-b/

To me, gunboat diplomacy is forcing a country to trade with you on pain of violence or severe sanctions. Kuwait was defending an ally, wasn’t it?

No – invading Iraq was all about getting control of the oil.

Don’t start this shit again.

Bad example – try another.

If you read the posts in order you started it, Molgrips.

I was referring to the Iraq war was only about oil conspiracy thing.

Give us another example, go on.

Well if it wasn’t nicking resources it was a crusade as Bush explained to Chirac. Unless you have an alternative I haven’t heard of, Molgrips.

What the **** has 18th century gunboat diplomacy (or just gunboat policy) got to do with Brexit and it being a colossally bad idea?

I know we’re 841 pages in and probably scratching around a bit, but even so…….

Brexit is a colossally bad idea. Primarily economically, but also because it reflects the UK in a very bad light as an insular, petty and racist little island that isn’t even grateful for its privileged status. A status mostly gained in a less ethical era when seeing a bloke in a grass skirt, shooting him and nicking his country was the accepted custom. That and industrialsing with no knowledge or regard for finite resources and the environment. But hey, we don’t want to share.

Colonial attitudes and Brexit go hand in hand. Same in France: Macron came under fire from National Front Frexit types for being apologetic about French behaviour during the occupation of North Africa.

Well if it wasn’t nicking resources it was a crusade as Bush explained to Chirac. Unless you have an alternative I haven’t heard of, Molgrips.

I refer you to the statement I made a few posts ago.

Do you have another example of gunboat diplomacy in the last ten years or so?

I’m not. The party needs to get to the centre to win. It would have walked the last election considering the absolute shower of sh*t the tories were

I think the opposite, and I think the evidence points more to the left. Shift to the centre and the political differences become too similar and personality becomes the issue not policy.

We just have to wait for enough of the electorate to see sense undoing what the right has instilled in them.

What the **** has 18th century gunboat diplomacy (or just gunboat policy) got to do with Brexit and it being a colossally bad idea?

I know we’re 841 pages in and probably scratching around a bit, but even so…..

The point is that our historic way of dealing with the world is no longer applicable and we need to learn to share and be interdependent with all kinds of countries all over the world, especially ones who used to be poor but are now becoming very rich (and therefore powerful) – as a matter of great urgency – if we want to remain relevant, have influence and to maintain our living standards, and to help ensure we don’t become the target of someone else’s empirical ambitions!

The point is that our historic way of dealing with the world is no longer applicable

Define historic.

Before the empire we were fairly isolated by European standards. Then we started conquering the world, then we started giving it back. Arguably Suez was the last time we threw our weight around. So in modern times, we’ve been pretty much as we are now, as far as I can tell.

Which is why I’m asking for examples of where we’ve been trying to coerce others with our might from say 60s onwards? I don’t think supporting allies e.g. the US counts.

If more folk agreed with him then the libs would be one of the main two parties

That’s not true either. The voting system favours the two main parties. If someone votes lib dem, it splits the vote.

Don’t think for one moment that everyone who voted Labour actually want a Corbyn government.

. So in modern times, we’ve been pretty much as we are now, as far as I can tell.

We use the aid budget for that sort of thing, not for coercion, more for favours.

In the last few months, Molgrips.

Gunboat diplomacy in Gibralta

The comical thing being that in this case Britain needs Spain to agree to any agreement with the UK that’s better than no deal at all.

Don’t think for one moment that everyone who voted Labour actually want a Corbyn government.

Again, I did and happy that I could actually vote for a party close to my ideals (be even better if they went a bit more left)

The most sensible balanced option is to have a cross party coalition where all views/stances are taken into account and agreed. Seems to work well in some countries and the government gets more trust as they are working together to put in place the best policies for the country rather than non stop squabbling and points scoring.

Having said that it wouldn’t be for me though.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/27/eu-workers-leave-uk-deloitte-brexit

Meanwhile more Brexit news. I know it’s i the Guardian, but it says a lot about how immigrants from the EU are feeling welcome here.

I work with a lot of highly skilled EU colleagues, 50% sounds about right.

It’s the uncertainty that’s the problem, many are looking at getting our have mortgages, children, etc etc.
They’ve not fit much choice but to look for work elsewhere in the EU.

Caroline Flint gets it and has listened to her constituents

“Ignoring Brexit would be bollix” she tells a Labour Progressives conference 🙂

Labour's Caroline Flint MP: Ignoring Brexit would be “bollocks”

Ignoring Brexit would be “bollocks,” The Labour Party's Caroline Flint MP tells a Progress – Labour's progressives conference

Posted by BrexitCentral on Monday, June 26, 2017

Labour's Caroline Flint MP: Labour needs to be straight with p…

“Those who aim to keep us in the single market, know full well that this is EU membership in all but name” says The Labour Party's Caroline Flint MP

Posted by BrexitCentral on Monday, June 26, 2017

Did anyone actually read the Deloitte’s piece yesterday ?

9/10 foreign workers are very interested in relocating to the UK for “the right opportunty”. There is a long line of people ready to apply for a work visa.

Brexshit is utterly toxic and will destroy anyone who attempts to deal with it. So I’m happy for now that it’s entirely the tories domain. Hopefully labour will have seen sense before the crap drops into their lap. But that’s their lookout. If they take it on, it will destroy them too.

jambalaya – Member
Did anyone actually read the Deloitte’s piece yesterday ?

9/10 foreign workers are very interested in relocating to the UK for “the right opportunty”. There is a long line of people ready to apply for a work visa.

didnt you get the memo jambs? brexies dont like immigrants!

Hopefully labour will have seen sense before the crap drops into their lap. But that’s their lookout. If they take it on, it will destroy them too.

this! right now MPs have to keep the xenophobic OAP brexies happy but as they die off the youth betrayed by brexshit will become even more engaged

The United States is very hard to get into. They are massively oversubscribed with VISA applicants. Ditto Australia. We can go on. The rest of the world manages just fine without freedom of movement and being part of the EU. In fact the rest of the world is generally doing a lot better than the EU

In fact the rest of the world is generally doing a lot better than the EU

Is that like a real fact? Since the average chinese, south east asian, indian, or african, doesn’t seem to be doing that well……………or by the rest of the world do you mean english speaking bits?

fish in a barrel this morning jambs

http://www.cityam.com/265762/its-official-uk-has-fallen-bottom-g7-growth

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league

of course the UK was doing quite well, till some old fools got the ref vote they wanted

Yes we’ll always attract some labour, just as Japan remains popular with Chinese and Fillipino immigrants despite the difficulties of working there. But while they are useful labour and in some cases well trained for the jobs they do (Fillipino nurses is a particular example) it’s much less popular for higher skill levels.

And of course Japan is in complete denial about their demographic time-bomb which is going to complete reshape their country one way or another in the next few decades.

re the new EU citizen ID cards….

The rest of the world manages just fine without freedom of movement and being part of the EU

Yes, but they were never in it to begin with. Our issue isn’t not being in it, it’s leaving it where we had previously been in it.

Do you appreciate the difference, Jam?

Did anyone actually read the Deloitte’s piece yesterday ?

9/10 foreign workers are very interested in relocating to the UK for “the right opportunty”. There is a long line of people ready to apply for a work visa.

Jamba, i’ll warrant 9/10 UK workers would be very interested in relocating to the european mainland for “a yacht and a pony”.
how much does this tell us about anything?

jambalaya – Member
The rest of the world manages just fine without freedom of movement

#Jambafact 😆

Mercosur(Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela), along with its Associate members of Bolivia, Chile, Colombia and Ecuador established that their territories together form an “area of free residence with the right to work” to all its citizens, with no additional requirements other than nationality. The Free Movement and Residence Agreement was established in the Brasília summit based in a previous document signed on 6 December 2002.[64]