igm – Member

I like the EU people

There is No such thing as EU citizen

If you cannot even distinguish between people and system then you sure going crash hard. True.

I agreed with the last of those three things you said, but the first two are a little muddled (or you’re struggling to maintain the just making controversial options up level).[/quote]

Ya, you know your logic fails because you are trying to define EU as one big family or one big country innit. Let me help federal states perhaps? 😆 It’s like trying to say Islam or Christian as a race innit. 😛

Keep trying.

😯

PS in Newcastle today if you fancy that pint – or are you still hiding to protect your secret identity

What do you have on offer? 😯

You said the EU people.

captainsasquatch – Member

I admire N.Korea because they keep to themselves and they do the world a great justice by not releasing his population to consume the world resources. Hence, they give the world peace by keeping to themselves.

For once I agree, and it woukd be nice if you decided to follow in their footsteps. They’d soon lose your support if they came over to the west, shouting and ranting about a political system that they simply don’t like, nor that they can change. [/quote]

You see North Korea never actually mentioned anything about EU or the UK except their “arch” enemy USA (down with USA as they chanted), but do you realise you lot have been going dramatic about N.Korea? If only EU or you lot will leave N.Korea alone the world would be a better place to live. The question is can you? Naahh … all talk coz you lot will always trying to intervene in others affairs coz it’s in your nature. Always a busybody. Therefore, to leave you lot alone is asking for trouble.

You see if N.Korea want to get rid of their leader they can, so there is no need for the West or anyone to get involve apart from the own blood – S.Korea. I mean people have time on their hands. Few more generations things will different. What’s the hurry in the grand scheme of universe timeline?

If you admired them so much, you would try to emulate them.
You don’t admire them in the slightest, it’s a nice soundbite and likely to wind a few people up.
Give it up dude, you’re not losing. You lost pages ago.

I admire anyone who can keep to themselves without influencing others.

(You lot = generally refer to hints of PC so Not everyone just some)

kelvin – Member
You said the EU people.

Ya, I know I used that description (EU people) as short form to describe European people. My apology for causing confusion with the use of term.

I should be using the term European people instead of EU people so try not to hang-on to the term “EU” as in the EU bureaucratic system or EU citizen coz it is not.

When I refer to the bureacratic system I usually refer to them as EU bureacratic system.

I can’t go on listing all the countries individually you know …

Plus as I have said numerous times the EU is headed for a very deep recession so we’d be selling them less anyway.

You keep saying this, but that doesn’t make it true.

I remember visiting Lille at Christmas in 2010 when the UK papers were all declaring that the Euro was doomed and that the Euro economy was about to collapse under the weight of PIGS debts. And yet the centre of Lille was heaving with people going out and having a good time and spending money. Clearly they hadn’t been told they were having a recession.

Right now I’m just outside Morzine, and again, if were not for the fact that I know (from your helpful posts) that the French economy is dead and done, I really would not have noticed. Heaps of people around (not just Brits on half-term holidays) all having a good time.

And quite a lot of snow as well.

BBC News – Greek economy shrinks between October and December.

Speculation is that soon Greek will be out of EURO then the real domino effects starts … so much trouble ahead in EU.

The signs are so very clear in front of them but if people are still so deluded thinking there is still mileage in this EU bureaucratic system then they are going to be hit very hard. Very very hard.

Chewkw – you seem obsessed with the idea that North Korea is a peace-loving country of harmony that should be left to grow flowers and sing songs without interference.

Perhaps you have forgotten:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2017937/china-activates-emergency-radiation-monitoring-border

Speculation is that soon Greek will be out of EURO then the real domino effects starts … so much trouble ahead in EU.

Then the private equity financiers who’ve been stangling Greece will realise that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. You do realise chewkw that the current probelms in Greece have nothing to do with the Euro or Europe. But knock yourself with your ramblings.

Right now I’m just outside Morzine, and again, if were not for the fact that I know (from your helpful posts) that the French economy is dead and done, I really would not have noticed. Heaps of people around (not just Brits on half-term holidays) all having a good time.

Meanwhile the CRS are out on the Paris streets for the sixth night running

captainsasquatch – Member

Speculation is that soon Greek will be out of EURO then the real domino effects starts … so much trouble ahead in EU.

Then the private equity financiers who’ve been stangling Greece will realise that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. You do realise chewkw that the current probelms in Greece have nothing to do with the Euro or Europe. But knock yourself with your ramblings. [/quote] We shall find out soon. Not long to go.

oldnpastit – Member
Chewkw – you seem obsessed with the idea that North Korea is a peace-loving country of harmony that should be left to grow flowers and sing songs without interference.

I have never said they were peace loving. I just say they keep to themselves which is good enough for me. As for that region between China, North Korea, South Korea and Japan … they have blood feud.

We shall find out soon. Not long to go.

What will we find out? That bankers are greedy bastids? I think we already know that.

Ya, you know your logic fails because you are trying to define EU as one big family or one big country innit. Let me help federal states perhaps? It’s like trying to say Islam or Christian as a race innit.

They were your words and your logic. Still think it’s failed?

I love having you around. I really shouldn’t but it is fun laughing at your idiocy. I can only live with myself because I’m pretty sure it’s all an act you put on. You are far more intelligent on other threads – normal even.

Meanwhile the CRS are out on the Paris streets for the sixth night running

Proof that some people somewhere don’t let the authorities walk all over them and when the powers that be behave badly take to the streets.

If the rapist had been put in “préventive” things would have been a lot calmer.

None of it has anything to do with the EU or Euro. The only remote connection to this thread is that 50% of the police are reckoned to vote FN which is double the rest of the population. Same xenophobic, authoritarian, isolationist, nationalistic bile as Farrage and Co.

Of course Morzine is busy it’s still French half term (spread over 3 weeks). If you read the “move to France” thread there are two properties owned by Brits which have been vacant and for sale for 2 years. Unemployment is 10% and amongst youth its 25. Just imagine the UK in that situation.

@oldman this financial Tsunami is coming, sadly. We can do nothing about it except try and prepare and distance ourselves.

The only remote connection to this thread is that 50% of the police are reckoned to vote FN which is double the rest of the population.

Funny thing is Edukator in the last few years all the violent rioters I have seen have been from the far left.

I think we’ll all find the actual FN vote is a lot higher than the opinion polls and (ludicrously) left wing media say. Most people aren’t going to declare their voting intentions faced with the name calling / abuse you’ve repeated.

It’s not name calling or abuse, it’s the FN manifesto. Did you watch Philippot on TV a few nights back?

So you have violent police thugs behaving badly with an extremme right agenda and then you blame the victims. The police officer is still walking free despite raping Théo and beating up another innocent the week before. Do you agree with Black Lives Matter protests in the US? Because this is just a European version.

And you’ve forgotten the increase in hate crimes against immigrants in the UK following the Brexit vote.

My words were accurate and well chosen.

Funny thing is Edukator in the last few years all the violent rioters I have seen have been from the far left.

Assuming that violence is counted as being physical.

I am not condoning the violence by the Police. Neither am I assuming it was left or right bias. From a law and order perective France is rather out of control. Never mind watching the army patrol past the flat every few hours.

Captain I was referring to the type where you set light to police cars and generally smash things up in responce the the Government’s attempt to do something about 25% youth unemployment.

Funny thing is Edukator in the last few years all the violent rioters I have seen have been from the far left.

The last time he did this i explained that it was not true – well its true all he may see but its not true that they are the only ones rioting

I dont think posting facts will make him stop telling us his opinion of reality but it not one that reality itself can support

Jam should be watching BBC4 now – Can the EU survive? It’s going on about Italy’s horrendous debt currently.

Programme moved onto FN now…

“Patriots vs Globalists”

[ no Russian money involved, honest ]

Marine Le Penn started off making thought provoking points about globalisation but two minutes later her rhetoric became so egregious it put her firmly in the slimy git category.

An Irish MEP in a wooly jumper

Jean-Claude Junker the Godfather of tax avoidance

"Scum also rises": Irish MEP lashes out at Jean-Claude Juncker

"These people have a way of rising to the top. It isn't just cream, scum also rises."Irish MEP Luke Flanagan takes aim at Jean-Claude Juncker, the President of the European Commission, who has been accused of turning Luxembourg into a tax-haven.

Posted by Channel 4 News on Tuesday, February 14, 2017

I will catch it on iPlayer tomorrow, prefer that to live stream

Then the private equity financiers who’ve been stangling Greece will realise that 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Very few private foreign lenders to Greece, dominated by ECB, IMF etc. Private financiers were taken out years ago.

If you don’t like troops patrolling past your house and consider France out of control then I fail to understand your enthusiasm or Le Pen, Jamba. It doesn’t take a great deal of imagination to see that France would end up in a state close to civil war with le Pen in power.

If there’s one thing I think we can agree on it’s that Junka is indeed the Godfather of tax avoidance.

Private financiers took their 25% P.A over several years and ran, Mefty. Double your money, double Greek debt and then run. With Eurobonds and common interest rates fro the wholes Euro zone that would not have happened. It was very much a case of robbing a poor country to pay rich financiers.

I’ll just leave this here….

EZ doing well, according to the Financial Times

The eurozone economy has now posted 14 consecutive quarters of growth, the unemployment rate has returned into single digits, and economic sentiment has reached its highest level in six years. The numbers contrast with common depictions of the eurozone economy as stagnant, sclerotic and perennially underperforming.

Behr sums it up nicely for me:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/15/brexiteers-blame-milk-honey-delusional-expectations-gove-johnson

At the end of all this, when the sunlit uplands don’t appear for the many, and the rich do just fine- who’s going to be blamed? Because, as any fule kno, Europe isn’t the root of our problems…..

“There is a question that was never put to the leaders of the campaign for Brexit and has not, as far as I’m aware, been put to the prime minister since her conversion to the cause. It is this: what will you do on the morning of formal separation from the EU that you could not have done the day before?

What restored freedom, what action hitherto proscribed by the tyrannical bureaucrats of Brussels, will you indulge as the sparkling English wine is uncorked? Bend a banana, perhaps. Or catch the Eurostar to Paris and savour the sensation of no longer having the automatic right to work there. Oh! Pleasant exercise of hope and joy! … Bliss it will be in that dawn to be alive. Right?

Brexit enthusiasts will complain that my question is unfair. Objections to EU membership were all about democracy, sovereignty and long-term economic opportunity: not pleasures that can be consumed overnight. And while that might be so, it is also true that people tend to vote for things in expectation of tangible benefits. A weekly dividend of £350m for the NHS, for example. So the unlikelihood of quick gratification for leave voters is a problem.

Theresa May identifies a deeper imperative to Brexit than was written on the referendum ballot paper. She hears a collective cry of rage against the economic and political status quo, requiring radical change on multiple fronts. So, in parallel with the prime minister’s plan for a “clean break” from the rest of Europe, Downing Street is thinking of ways to address grievances that generated demand for Brexit in the first place: stagnant wages; anxiety that living standards have peaked and that the next generation is being shafted; the demoralising experience of working all hours without saving a penny.

Government thinking on these issues has so far yielded a modest harvest. Last week’s housing white paper was meant to address a chronic shortage of homes by nudging councils towards quicker approval of new developments. Last month saw the launch of an industrial strategy, embracing state activism to nurture growth in under-resourced sectors and neglected regions. Last year May appointed Matthew Taylor, formerly head of Tony Blair’s policy unit, to lead a review into modern employment practices – the decline of the stable, rewarding full-time career and its replacement by poorly paid, insecure casual servitude.

A notable feature of this non-Brexit agenda is how closely it tracks arguments made by Ed Miliband in the last parliament. The former Labour leader had a whole thesis about the structural failings of British capitalism and how it corroded people’s confidence in the future, leaving them anxious and angry. His focus on the “squeezed middle” anticipated May’s promise to help those who are “just-about-managing”. Miliband’s calls for state intervention in failing markets were derided by the Tories as socialist delusion at the time, but he opened rhetorical doors through which May is now tentatively stepping. Last week’s housing paper even used a forgotten policy that Labour had launched in 2013 – a “Use it or lose it” threat to developers who hoard land without building on it.

Meanwhile, Downing Street has taken a close interest in the commission on economic justice set up by the Institute for Public Policy Research, a thinktank that provided regular policymaking services for Labour in the days before its capture by Corbynism. The commission was recently invited to give a presentation to May’s leading policy advisers inside No 10.

Were it not for Brexit’s domination of political debate, May’s eschewal of conventional left-right dividing lines – her willingness to jettison Thatcherite orthodoxies – might have attracted more notice. But then, as the old Yiddish saying goes, if my granny had balls she’d be my grandpa. The idea that there is some parallel realm of politics that May can develop and for which she will be remembered alongside her EU negotiation is delusional. Timid little steps on housing, industrial strategy and job security are not going to get the prime minister to the promised land of fairness and opportunity in time for Brexit day. And she insists on a diversion to set up more grammar schools along the way, despite nearly every expert in the field warning that educational selection closes more avenues to social mobility than it opens.

Someone will have to level with the country. The dawn of Brexit promises no freedom that wasn’t there the day before.

Even on immigration the government cannot meet expectations raised by the leave campaign. There will still be new people arriving because businesses will insist on a capacity to hire from abroad. Millions who arrived in Britain over recent decades, and their children born as British citizens, will stay because the country is their home. Even the most draconian border regime cannot restore the ethnic homogeneity for which some nostalgic Brexiteers pine.

At some point someone is going to have to level with the country. Much of what leave voters were promised is unavailable because the EU was never responsible for a lot of things that made them angry. The dawn of Brexit promises no significant freedom or opportunity that wasn’t there the day before. It isn’t a message that ex-remainers can deliver, for all the reasons that scuppered their campaign last year. It sounded patronising before the referendum and the tone isn’t improved by bitterness in defeat.

None of the original leave campaigners will dare admit their dishonesty in making Brussels the scapegoat for every conceivable social and economic ill. There is no point expecting Boris Johnson or Michael Gove to embark on a self-critical journey of public-expectation management. Far more likely they will be drawn deeper into the old lie: someone must be held responsible when Brexit does not unblock the sluices of wealth and opportunity; when the milk and honey refuse to flow. The obvious candidates are foreigners and fifth columnists – EU governments that negotiate in bad faith; alien interlopers who drain public services; unpatriotic “remoaners” talking the country down.

The question then is whether the prime minister will go along with that game. She has managed so far to sustain the pretence that dealing with the failure of Britain’s economy to share its bounties fairly and quitting the EU are kind of the same thing. If it turns out that they aren’t, and one ambition obstructs the other, who will she blame?”

Great link codybrenan

absolutely nails the bullshit and why us whining remoaners are still saddened by it all

Codybrennan nails it…. best response on the subject within the thread.

As above – Brexit/Leave really is the greatest swindle perpetrated in modern (or any) times.

Yup.

Private financiers took their 25% P.A over several years and ran, Mefty. Double your money, double Greek debt and then run.

You missed out the bit where they took a haircut, plenty of private investors lost money, French and German banks were some of the worst hit.

+1 in the haircut. Facts rarely match the narrative

At the end of all this, when the sunlit uplands don’t appear for the many, and the rich do just fine- who’s going to be blamed? Because, as any fule kno, Europe isn’t the root of our problems.

The people who voted leave. And they deserve it.

But of course, in thei age of deflecting responsibility to others, they will seek another scapegoated. “MIss they told me to vote leave because the foreigners take our jobs.”

Some time you have to look at yourself and take responsibility (although much easier to blame Theresa May obviously. )

Those banks were largely reimbursed using the bailout money, even the interest was paid to many. Those losses the bank declared around 2011 were never actually realised because 140bn euro of the 240b euro bail out package was used to pay off the original Greek debts and some of the interest. Only about 100bn of debt was “written off/down” and that was mainly interest – most banks lost little or no capital, but returns were reduced to levels comparable with what they’d have earned on bonds in say Germany.

The banks which bought Greek bonds and sold before Greek debt became a “crisis” made a killing. Even most of those that held through the crisis lost no more than their paper gains.

wonder when all this will filter through!

Prices for materials and fuels paid by UK manufacturers for processing (input prices) rose 20.5% on the year, which is the fastest rate of annual growth since September 2008.

@molgrips, What is this comedy of which you speak. Yorkshire’s freedom from UK tyranny is far to serious to make jokes about. It’s all very well some folks not liking my attempts to lift the level of debate on here but you cannot deny that we need a Free Yorkshire. Gods county cannot be dragged down with the rest of the U.K. You come here riding our trails an making em really muddy, who pays to get em sorted? Not you comeriners, you want all the benefits of Yorkshire trails but don’t pay for the upkeep. Our Yorkshire public trail services cannot maintain this level of abuse by those not born here. Most of you’ll not consider a Yorkshire bike (steady) and come here with your foreign made velocipedes, well we are not having it. Things will be better for Yorkshire whatever facts you UKtogether idiots think. An another thing, were sick them people who come here to live n pretend to be Yorkshire, we know you and your high spending southern ways, just cause you benefit the economy by “buying local” n asking the provenance of the shoulder o mutton ont counter. It’s always “ou much, al not be ripped off” first before you buy cheapest shit available. That’s how to assimilate in a Free Yorkshire (it better be cheap).

Having displayed my true colours I’ll retire other than to say, a little more autonomy to the Yorkshire area would be nice.

Those banks were largely reimbursed using the bailout money, even the interest was paid to many.

They were partially reimbursed, there was a nominal hit of around 50%, plus extension of duration etc which caused a further NPV hit. Was the risk transferred to EU governments? Absolutely, but to suggest it was done at zero cost to the banks is frankly untrue and their accounts illustrate that. If you want a dry analysis of the package, the attached is a pretty reasonable academic analysis, quantification of the haircut is addressed fron p 17 onwards. It is very difficult to find non-partisan commentaries when the situation is highly political.

It was similar to the sub-prime run up. The banks made lots of paper profits on the portfolios which they banked and distributed and then when the assets lost their value the banks wrote them off as a loss. Much of the sub-prime loss was real because not all governments steped in to bail out their banks.

The nominal hit was declared at 50% in the worst case with the base point for that hit never being declared, and the interest banked in the interim not taken into account.

There was a fascinating German TV documentary on Greece, its debt, austerity and who has made money on it all. Of that 240bn euro “bailout” around 10% reached Greece. Most of the money was used to refund the banks, banks that had been making a fortune on Greek debt for years..