It’s “viable” just the least attractive of the four existing framworiks in terms of facilitating trade and investment. Gives the highest level of fake control which is why some nutters go for it as a first choice.

We should be looking to avoid relying on WTO.

The brexies are so determined to paint the EU as the ultimate evil that WTO must be better, just because it’s not the EU.

Check out the comments on a Brexit article on the BBC, for a glimpse into the bonkers world of some of the people out there, (much worse since the telegraph axed it’s comments feature)

@br thanks I just went back 10+ pages could only see a Guardian link.

WTO would throw up issues for certain but imo none which aren’t solvable. We are not sefl sufficient in food so export doesn’t seem a massive priority, we discussed the lamb ariifs a while ago that wouod need looking at. WTO is quite protectionist around food and would certainky be a major issie for EU’s exports to us.

I believe I am right in saying the US is the EU’s largest trading partner and thats all WTO.

In ofher news I see Junker says he won’t stand again, he sounds a bit like Sepp Blatter with an equal amount of integrity ! Also supposedly said on German radio he expects the EU cohesion to start to splinter as UK offers different deals to different nations as its allowed to on non-trade matter AFAIK.

It’s come to my attention that this thread is being hijacked by other issues of no value. Can we please keep it to a Free Yorkshire. Who or what is this EU and Britex of which many speak? Sounds to me that these folk would not be able to play cricket for Yorkshire (God bless that county name).

Free Yorkshire has been done to death, it wasn’t even funny to start with…

I believe I am right in saying the US is the EU’s largest trading partner and thats all WTO.

Yes, but the USA is the worlds largest economy so has certain ‘leverage’.

Also you’ve to remember that no country politician will do any trade deal that is unattractive to their country. Politically (back home) they just can’t afford for it to happen, except, where just doing the trade deal is the most politically important thing that could happen…

You don’t need leverage wih WTO. That’s partly the point its a single framework lots of countries have signed up too.

I personally believe the “never mind the quality feel with width” argumnets about the size of the “single market” are massively overdone. Yes we want to trade worth the wealthly EU countries like Germany who buy our goods but as export markets a large number of the 27 are pretty worthless and certainly where never worth paying for access too. The real valie was in the UK as an importer. I believe the leverage is very much in our favour.

I think the WTO is viable as it’s the the basis for global trade.

EDIT: just to be coear I think it’s better if we could have a free trade deal which covered say 60-70% of existing EU business import/export but if the EU wants to play silly buggars with job preservation politics in Brussels then they can get stuffed. As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.

It seems the EU has done a pretty good job of negotiating steel tariffs with China. No individual country would have had the economic strength to do that, Jamba. That’s maintained jobs and strategic manufacturing capacity in Europe (and the UK as it happens).

I believe the leverage is very much in our favour.

Must be why they are trying o hard to ensure free trade happens then eh

You can have your opinions but you are putting your politics before the maths, the economics, the reality and the facts. However we dress it up its approx 40% of our trade and 4% of theirs – no one wants to lose it but to claim the smaller partner of 1 has the leverage over the 26 when trade is like this is spectacularly delusional.

As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.

problem is they are the only ones with the cars so to walk away is literally what you have to do.

It seems the EU has done a pretty good job of negotiating steel tariffs with China.

They aren’t negotiated with China, they are set by the EU but have to be within the terms of the WTO rules.

As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.

But this isn’t car negotiation. People’s jobs, businesses and livelihoods are at stake. Your posturing is foolish.

But that’s just it Mefty, the EU is big enough to apply conditions that may or may not respect WTO rules and brazen it out with no risk of sanctions because China is too dependent on Europe as a market.

Apart from the fact the UK was pushing for a lower tariff, but had to compromise with its EU partners. This is a hardly explored area of the trade debate, the external tariffs of the EU reflect the compromised needs of all its members. Outside the EU we be able to set a package that suits our economy better.

where we want to capitulate/give in/demand less of a trading partner yes where we want more no as we have less strength and are [ literally] worth less.

Its pretty obvious that the larger the trading partner or bloc the more it is worth and the greater its influence and power.

Yes smaller nations may have “more degrees of freedom” but it is not the best option and it may also mean more easily bullied into a poorer deal/deal at any costs

You dont have to be the most business savvy person in the world to know you would be holding the better cards striking a trade deal with us currently nor the most astute person in the world to knwo that trade only at our price is not going to happen We wont be calling the shots their either. I am not sure if we do have more freedom tbh as the price is less power/influence.

mefty – Member
Apart from the fact the UK was pushing for a lower tariff, but had to compromise with its EU partners. This is a hardly explored area of the trade debate, the external tariffs of the EU reflect the compromised needs of all its members. Outside the EU we be able to set a package that suits our economy better.

?

so we should reduce tariffs on steel dumped from China?

Wasnt a Brexiter argument that by leaving the EU we could then increase tariffs ourselves

probably why the Kipper MEPs voted against anti dumping measures then 😉
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-vote-against-eu-law-that-could-have-helped-british-steel-a6964476.html

will we gain in flexibility what we loose in leverage?, the UK steel industry was happy with the EUs actions, it was our own government that upset them

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/12/european-parliament-votes-against-china-market-economy-status-uk-steel-industry

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/07/european-union-import-duties-chinese-steel-port-talbot-tata

I think that keeping China happy was more of a priority for Osborne at the time than looking after British steel workers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata-steel-uk-government-accused-of-failing-to-protect-british-workers-by-blocking-eu-plans-to-allow-a6962446.html

Yep the China steel farce….nothing like having the uk government watching yer back 🙁

Anyone who speaks lightly of the implications of WTO rules on certain industries within this thread is a fool, WTO presents a catastrophic situation for UK agriculture, and tariff free deals with NZ, AUS, USA will compound the problem. Many other industries including fishing will suffer from very very cheap imports

For anyone else feeling like they’re standing on a burning deck..

http://www.choosefreedom.eu/

slowoldman – Member

North Korea is doing just fine. They don’t cause harm to anyone and they do not intervene in others’ affairs unlike busy body EU system. North Korea just want to live in peace with their own Korean people.

North Korea test fires ballistic missile[/quote]
Ya, they are doing some routine tests that’s all which is just normal fireworks stuff no biggie. The rest of the world, as usual, are just getting a bit dramatic stirring up dirt about such non-issue besides what can the rest of the world do? Embargo? Invade N Korea? 😆
Remember N. Korea doesn’t compete for resources and they don’t demand from the world so why want to intervene in their affairs? 😯

If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue. Trust me it is a non-issue coz they rather trade then to let go fireworks. Japan is being dramatic because they are being circled by two of their arch enemies.

If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue.

What a bizarre concept. Do business instead of firing missiles at others. I wonder whether it’d work.
All very strange, probably just end up a bureaucratic mess. 😛

captainsasquatch – Member

If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue.

What a bizarre concept. Do business instead of firing missiles at others. I wonder whether it’d work.
All very strange, probably just end up a bureaucratic mess. [/quote]

Open a dialog. Trade with them. Visit their leader. How hard can that be?

Oh ya … I forgot you need to speak to N.Korean big bro China if you want to trade with them. In that case just leave N.Korea alone.

Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat’s chance in hell! I’m listening though, tell me why you think doing trade with N Korea, and China, will stop them being sabre rattlers.

He’s got you chewkw. 😆

captainsasquatch – Member
Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat’s chance in hell! I’m listening though, tell me why you think doing trade with N Korea, and China, will stop them being sabre rattlers.

Let them sabre rattle at Japan coz that is their rights due to past history. Call it whatever you will but if you want to stop them beating each other up then ask the Japanese Emperor need to bow to apologise. Nothing the rest of the world can do coz that’s the nature of things over there.

igm – Member
He’s got you chewkw.

No, he hasn’t coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there. 😛

Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat’s chance in hell!

It does sound like I’ve heard it before, from long ago.

Someone older and wiser could probably remind us.

No, he hasn’t coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there.

And you the mindset of the people here while shouting about the EU.
The odd thing about the whole EU thing is that the Chinese are extremely reticent in talking about it in the same volumes as you chewkw, the racist Indian lady I was talking to on Saturday had the same mindset as you about how unfair it is, as did an Iranian lady I spoke to recently (edit: who was more educated and less racist).
I say that if Asia want to blow itself up, get the f on with it. It’s got nothing to do with me, except for the warranty on my Nissan, but as it was built in Spain I should be OK.
EDIT: chewkw, you’re only interest is that you see it as unfair, you have to get a visa to work here. Yet a Rumanian can walk in, get a job and live for the rest of their natural. They don’t even need to speak English when they get here. How that grates with you, you studied English, maybe had to have an exam, get a visa. And with all that you have no real rights here. That’s what gets you so wound up, isn’t it?

@oldman you understand under WTO you can put extra tariffs on things, that’s effectively what the EU does with stuff from outside, eg thats how they manipulate coffee prices from Africa to Germany’s benefit.

@molgrips, the EU needs our financial services more than ever. Whatever they try and say they cannot easily replicate. Tarif cash flow is massively in our favour due to a big trade deficit. Nearly 90% of our economic activity is domestic. Fortunately Remainers aren’t doing the negotiations ! If I may say so the Renainers here want a bad outcome so they can say “told you so”

IMO we will be just fine under WTO with Europe.

captainsasquatch – Member

No, he hasn’t coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there.

And you the mindset of the people here while shouting about the EU.[/quote]

EU is just a silly failed utopian concept that cause more domino misery to the population than good. Nahh … no comparison. Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.

The odd thing about the whole EU thing is that the Chinese are extremely reticent in talking about it in the same volumes as you chewkw, the racist Indian lady I was talking to on Saturday had the same mindset as you about how unfair it is, as did an Iranian lady I spoke to recently.

Chinese is all for trade so that is a normal behaviour when they see that as their territory. History, yes. Never forget. Both the ladies are reacting normally like everyone else and I do not see them as racists at all. Why force them to like others? They can hang on to their blame whatever but that is their feelings. Normal. Past history is difficult to forget unless you are a living saint.

I say that if Asia want to blow itself up, get the f on with it. It’s got nothing to do with me, except for the warranty on my Nissan, but as it was built in Spain I should be OK.

Yes, let them be. Stop intervening in their affairs and let them do the nature work by recycling their own population.

Think of the world resources that need to feed them population. Think of the animals that have to starve and be killed for trying to feed for themselves in land own by people.

Human population is the major problem in this world.

Jamba – you and I can afford to take the hit. Many can’t.

EU is just a silly failed utopian concept that cause more domino misery to the population than good. Nahh … no comparison. Even a dictatorship that confine his/her own people without bothering others are 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.

Biiiiiiiiig yaaaawn! Try taking some of your own advice and keep your bloody nose out of things that a) you don’t have the mindset for and b) simply don’t concern you.
Fing children and the internet!

everyone else and I do not see them as racists at all.

I assure you that the Indian lady who talked about the, urgh, blacks, was a racist. perhaps you not seeing racism in her makes you a racist too.
It made me think.

captainsasquatch – Member
Biiiiiiiiig yaaaawn! Try taking some of your own advice and keep your bloody nose out of things that a) you don’t have the mindset for and b) simply don’t concern you.
Fing children and the internet!

I wish I don’t have to say anything about EU bureaucratic system but this is a system that must be stop at its root, otherwise it will spread like wild fire burning everything in its path causing even more misery.

I assure you that the Indian lady who talked about the, urgh, blacks, was a racist. perhaps you not seeing racism in her makes you a racist too.
It made me think.

O C’mon … you simply cannot force people to like each other. I mean if they don’t want to mix with others so be it. Different in culture, value, belief etc and if they keep to themselves by not bothering others then I see no wrong.

Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.

History. Read more about it.

O C’mon … you simply cannot force people to like each other

.

There is a difference between tolerate and like.

O C’mon … you simply cannot force people to like each other. I mean if they don’t want to mix with others so be it. Different in culture, value, belief etc and if they keep to themselves by not bothering others then I see no wrong.

No you can’t force people to like each other, they tend to have all sorts of personalities and there are personality types that I don’t like (stupid being one). Turning your nose up at them because of colour is simply racism and trying to defend it is abhorrent. Afterall we’ve all been victims of racism at some point in our lives.

you and I can afford to take the hit. Many can’t.

If I may say so that’s Remainer Project Fear speaking. We will be better off outside the EU. The EU has delivered massive pain to much of Southern Europe and people are starting to see it now.

The EU hasn’t, the € has

Very important distcintion to make.

kelvin – Member

Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.

History. Read more about it. [/quote]
N.Korea and S.Korea are practically the same people so they can do as they wish to each other. Problem is Japan, an outsider, enslaved them historically and they also tried to kick his/her larger neighbour China thinking about their own superiority … Silly goose that Japan is … 😆 As for dictators they can dictate to their own people but if they want to start a war so be it. But if they keep to themselves they can do as they wish. 🙂

but if they want to start a war so be it.

Oh. Great. Thanks.

Jamba – that’s not fear it’s fact (in my case and I think yours). Now forecasting financial collapse or streams of immigrants – that would be project fear. But I didn’t.