Perhaps someone should tell Mrs May.

Although Mrs May’s team denied she had decided to quit the single market, the EU sees the free movement of workers and oversight of a single court as indispensable pillars of a common market.

Mrs May said she wanted to give “British companies the maximum freedom to trade and operate in the single market”, but not at the expense of allowing free movement or accepting the jurisdiction of judges in Luxembourg.

2/10/16
She should spend less time sitting on her elbows.

Ninfan – why are you posting clips of a clown?

Immigration is what May will stick with coz she feels she’s on strong ground, (despite her disastrous track record as home sec. 😯 )

It will be the bone she throws the electorate as it becomes apparent that trade negotiatons will produce a shadow of our former in EU position- At least she tried to keep them foreigners out 😉
Of course if the senior Tories can swallow enough pride to go grovelling to Farage he might be able to hook them up with a few tid bits from the orange one.

That’s a #leftiefact you can take to the bank

What’s that BR? The Tories are going to privatise the NHS and end all benefits?

No, who said that?

But your voting record and posts on here point to someone reasonably right-wing, yet you’re happy to take advantage of the benefits of living in the very type of state you’re against – so maybe it’s HYPOCRITE!

Here’s what Boris Johnson said about retaining access to the single market:

What we want is for Britain to be like many other countries in having free-trade access to the territory covered by the Single Market – but not to be subject to the vast, growing and politically-driven empire of EU law.

Boris Johnson’s speech on the EU referendum: full text

So if you believe what Boris Johnson says, then that means that Leave voters might have expected to retain access to the single market.

Of course, no-one believes what BJ says anymore….

Most remainders are out of touch with reality hence cannot accept the alternatives.

Brexit and now President Elect Trump …

chewkw, I answered your question.
Would you mind answering mine?

chewkw – Member

Most remainders are out of touch with reality hence cannot accept the alternatives.
Post of the tread. 😆

Why on earth would you think ninfan is miserable ? He is taking the time to put the other side of an argument in an environment which is much more left leaning than the country at large. Just as per the videos posted many STWers are not interested in listening to feedback as for the reason of their loss and imo they will keep on being on the losing side. Their belief is they lost as the other side “lied”.

Non EU migration is dominated by highly paid executives (high pay = highly taxed) and students who typically pay a premium to UK/EU students and as such subsidise their education. Both make economic sense, they pay their way and then some. In both categories you have to prove your worth before being granted a visa. Simple and effective.

but basically banning all immigration.

Quite simply Mrs May is absolutely not speaking about banning all immigration. Net flat immigration means 200,000+ new people every year to balance the leavers.

As for a low birth rate and needing immigrants two things, firstly you can achieve that with a system of visa based controlled immigration and secondly that’s a ponzi scheme solution as you are not addressing the fundamental issue (that people need to save enough during their working life to support themselves in retirement) in fact all you are doing is making the situation much worse in the longer term.

Le Pen was interesting on Marr today.

Their belief is they lost as the other side “lied”.

You say that like it’s insignificant.

Jamba – I’m becoming less and less convinced remain has lost. We just need to get peoples voices out there and the win is still there for the taking. And the longer we faff around the easier it will be.

Ninfan, stop being an arsehole. By all means debate but don’t be a dick about it. And before you accuse me of whining because you’re disagreeing with me, notice I’m not saying this to Jambalaya.

However I will take him up on this:

very high level stats which people rejected as obvious bollix based on what rhey saw with their own eyes.

Are you seriously suggesting that people should disregard researched statistics in favour of a single viewpoint without research?

That is absolutely shockingly poor. I bet you’ve had enough of experts too haven’t you? God forbid anyone actually knows things or tries to find out anything. You’ll be trying to tell us the earth is flat next, telling us to look out of the window for proof.

Awful argument, you should be ashamed of yourself for that.

You were right though that it is a political issue, but given the benefits of EU membership, governments should be mitigating any negative effects WITHOUT losing the positives. In other words, they should do some bloody work not just pander to popular opinion.

And yet, for some strange reason, like Jamba and Chewkw, I keep ending up on the winning side.

Well let’s wait for the end game.

Just as per the videos posted many STWers are not interested in listening to feedback as for the reason of their loss and imo they will keep on being on the losing side. Their belief is they lost as the other side “lied”

As usual, the leftie intelligentsia spend so much time stuck on transmit that rather than listening, they have to heap bile and derision on anyone who they can’t bully into agreeing with them.

Shite, even the unions now agree that immigration and freedom of movement is broken: http://classonline.org.uk/blog/item/len-mccluskey-britain-at-a-crossroads

Are you seriously suggesting that people should disregard researched statistics in favour of a single viewpoint without research?

[i]And we are also, I would argue, past the point where working people can be convinced that the free movement of labour has worked for them, their families, their industries and their communities.
It is fine to argue values and perspectives for the middle distance, but if it comes up against the reality of people’s daily experience, these arguments will fail.[/i]

slowoldman – Member
Well let’s wait for the end game.

Time line?

Give me a time, when?

When is end the end game?

Questions asked chewkw, I’m expecting answers.
I guess it doesn’t work like thsat for you, does it?

Well provisionally March 2019, but that may change. 😆

Ninfan – agreed there’s quite a few “stuck on transmit”. Two or three of the Brexmaniacs (I think that is appropriate in this case) fit that description

captainsasquatch – Member
Questions asked chewkw, I’m expecting answers.
I guess it doesn’t work like thsat for you, does it?

Let it go.
Be strong.
Do the time as others did for 43 years.

Let it go.
Be strong.
Do the time as others did for 43 years.

And suffer 43 years of a mistake? You’re having a laugh, aren’t you?
Don’t you feel foolish for waiting for 43 years before calling for change?
If you can’t answer a couple of questions, you can’t be respected. Ninfan puts up dodgy photos and Jamba avoids important points.
None of you have done anything to make me think that my remain vote was wasted, nor have you done anything convince me that leave is the best way forward.
You haven’t won anything and we all appear to be losers.
Makes you think.

And we are also, I would argue, past the point where working people can be convinced that the free movement of labour has worked for them, their families, their industries and their communities.
It is fine to argue values and perspectives for the middle distance, but if it comes up against the reality of people’s daily experience, these arguments will fail.

But it’s not the realities of people’s daily experience tho is it, unless you count reading the daily mail and the sun as part of that. The lies also came from the papers (who are obviously impartial and have nothing to gain from a potential brexit…). Voters were heavily influenced by lies, it doesn’t matter where the lies came from. Democracy isn’t about winning a vote it’s about doing the right thing for the people, that includes giving them the right information to make an informed decision.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/13/rbs-chairman-calls-on-theresa-may-brexit-transitional-plan-howard-davies-banks-uk?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So not telling, means jobs walk… Maybe May should reveal some of the plan.

captainsasquatch – Member
And suffer 43 years of a mistake? You’re having a laugh, aren’t you?
Don’t you feel foolish for waiting for 43 years before calling for change?

They did try to change but the political class refused to acknowledge them while they suffered in silent. They were totally abandon for the global corporate political elite class. They were left to rot.

If you can’t answer a couple of questions, you can’t be respected.

Respect? Their dignity was taken away to be replaced and to be told by the elites the way they should feel.

None of you have done anything to make me think that my remain vote was wasted, nor have you done anything convince me that leave is the best way forward.

You vote however you like but now you should respect the outcome.

You haven’t won anything and we all appear to be losers.

We won the peace of mind that no money can buy.
We can go to our grave grinning from ear to ear saying “We were the nothing but we have done it.”

And we are also, I would argue, past the point where working people can be convinced that the free movement of labour has worked for them, their families, their industries and their communities.

Why? Are they too stupid to understand the issues? Rather absurd to champion their decision at the same time as saying they can’t handle facts, isn’t it?

Immigrants work here, they spend money here, they spend money with the businesses that other people work for. Not really complicated.

They did try to change but the political class refused to acknowledge them while they suffered in silent. They were totally abandon for the global corporate political elite class. They were left to rot.

That is true. But making economic conditions even harder is not going to change that. Brexit is not going to solve their problems. How can it?

Chewkw you are very funny…. don’t bite folks he doesn’t really have a view or a soloution. Step away from the troll

Non EU migration is dominated by highly paid executives (high pay = highly taxed) and students who typically pay a premium to UK/EU students and as such subsidise their education. Both make economic sense, they pay their way and then some. In both categories you have to prove your worth before being granted a visa.

So are you happy to focus on the immigrants that provide the country with the most value then jamba?

In that case you’ll be happy to read this:

Figure 1a then graphs the evolution over time of the revenues/expenditures ratio for the three groups. Up until 2000, the relative fiscal contribution of natives was larger than the contributions of either EEA or non-EEA immigrants. However, since 2001, EEA immigrants have not only consistently had a higher revenues/expenditures ratio than natives but have often made positive fiscal contributions even in years when the amount of public expenditure on natives has been larger than natives’ fiscal payments. On the other hand, the fiscal contribution of non-EEA immigrants is slightly negative in all years, although the difference between their net cost and that of natives has been closing over time.
..
We display the difference between the revenues/expenditures ratio of recent EEA and non-EEA immigrants and that of natives in Figure 1b. The difference is particularly large in the first years, but it remains substantial throughout the period, in particular between natives and EEA immigrants, indicating a persistently higher fiscal contribution for the new cohorts of immigrants. Thus, these figures document that recent immigrants, and particularly those from the EEA countries, contributed substantially more in terms of taxes than they took out in terms of benefits and transfers over the period since 2000, even in those years where the UK ran a deficit, and the net fiscal contributions for natives were negative. Immigration since 2000, in particular
from the EEA countries, has thus helped to reduce the fiscal burden for native workers, and contributed to reducing the UK’s fiscal deficit.

Source: ”The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK”, Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM)

Looks like the worst contributors are the natives. If we ship all them out and replace them with migrants then we’ll be laughing.

Wow. To summarise then. EEA immigrants are actually subsidising the rest of us? Including Chewkw?

Priceless!

Oh by the way Chewkw very few folks on here will have to do “time” unlike he poor sods (at the bottom) who voted to support their provided (by Farage Daily Mail) “moral” high ground – let’s see how angry they get when **** all changes (well except that their standard of living declines) but you know this comrade commisar don’t you?

Wow. To summarise then. EEA immigrants are actually subsidising the rest of us? Including Chewkw?

And including those brilliant skilled non-EEA migrants that jamba wants to keep whilst blocking the EEA migrants.

oldmanmtb – Member

Just let it go oldmanmtb.

Those feelings come from all my colleagues in their 60s (more than 60 year old) struggling with lives and some retired ones coming back to work part-time just to supplement their income.

Quite simply Mrs May is absolutely not speaking about banning all immigration. Net flat immigration means 200,000+ new people every year to balance the leavers.

Once you’ve bollox’d up the ability to move in/out Europe with no/little hassle I’m guessing that’ll be reduced.

Alternatively, if the EU allow associate membership, emigration will skyrocket! Getting rid of all the open minded tolerant people is really going to cause problems for Britishness…

Chewkw I have nothing to let go… no vested interest, no axe to grind as I am on the outside looking in due to my personal endeavours, but I do not like to see rich powerful folks using poor people as political infantry so I will keep shouting at the ****s regardless of their political affiliations.

Net flat immigration means 200,000+ new people every year to balance the leavers.

More than that. Emigration is currently at 306,000 a year. (y/e March 2016 figure)

The net migration figures are interesting too – we get 10,000 more net migrants per year from non-EU countries than we do from the EU.

Net Migration:
43,000 Brits leaving, 180,000 EU citizens arriving, 190,000 Non-EU citizens arriving.

Won’t it be good when we leave the EU and we can finally limit the EU migrants to the same kind of numbers as the non-EU… oh…

Also I am 53

Ninfan by confusing to misuse stats – in this case misunderstanding both the accounting and cash flow aspects of the £350m lie – you are merely demonstrating the lack of understanding that is endemic in the Brexshit community. You should know better. It’s really not difficult and has been explained very clearly.

Graham 300k even better then. @b r my prediction is that EU countries will remain extremely keen to have Brits retire to their countries to spend their pensions and savings.

EEA migrants – it would be even better with visa based control, that’s my point. I repeatedly come back to my point that of freedom of movement was such a good idea other trade blocks etc would be doing it.

@igm are you actually suggesting the Remainers are going to somehow club together to block A50 and Brexit ?

As for “winning” on Brexit I’d rather be a Leave supporter having won the Referendum than a Remainer with no ability to block A50 and Brexit done and dusted before the 2020 GE.

This thread is mental. I’m literally only following it now for the inevitable meltdown from the three Brexshiteers when it becomes apparent that we aren’t leaving.

EEA migrants – it would be even better with visa based control

Why would it when the visa-based control non-EEA migrants we currently have contribute less ?

I repeatedly come back to my point that of freedom of movement was such a good idea other trade blocks etc would be doing it.

Conversely being the only one doing it doesn’t mean that it is a bad idea.

You couldn’t guarantee that if we had Remined in the EU. You would be able to say it was more likely but you could not guaranty it.[/quote]

Interesting. Can you provide me with a scenario (other than Spain leaving the EU, or the EU completely disintegrating 🙄 ) where that wouldn’t be guaranteed if we stayed in the EU?

I’m not sure why you bother. He’s made his position of continuing to write complete bollocks which every Leave campaigner has disowned quite clear.

At least chewy is amusing.