I believe Macron was also considering vetoing the extention.

I believe Macron was also considering vetoing the extention.

There was a great spectator article suggesting Boris has done a deal with Macron. A deal for fishing and wine in exchange for a veto.

Comedy genius if he pulled that off.

In years to come suspect will be seen as the biggest con job ever.

That’s been obvious for years.

There was a great spectator article suggesting Boris has done a deal with Macron. A deal for fishing and wine in exchange for a veto.

Comedy genius if he pulled that off.

While I’d have no doubt that Johnson would sell out our fishermen in a flash if he could..
Macron is a lot smarter than bozo !

I’d also take the word of an ‘expert’ over the spectator who have missed the mark time & again on Brexit!

French position is much more nuanced than this. Short thread, based on chats. Back to Paris tomorrow – will update if wildly different (doubtful) 1/ https://t.co/aalboTAd5g

— Mujtaba Rahman (@Mij_Europe) September 8, 2019

why in a Brexiteers mind are Nigerian Nurses, Pakistani Doctors, India engineers, Bangladeshi care assistants and Aussie Bar Keeps more “acceptable” than Polish Plumbers, Estonian Electricians, Swedish Engineers, Hungarian Computer Programmers and French Nurses ?

Who say they are more acceptable? The Brexiters I have talked about it with don’t think that. Immigration is bad full stop.

why in a Brexiteers mind are Nigerian Nurses, Pakistani Doctors, India engineers, Bangladeshi care assistants and Aussie Bar Keeps more “acceptable” than Polish Plumbers, Estonian Electricians, Swedish Engineers, Hungarian Computer Programmers and French Nurses

Hmm you suggesting Bracists aren’t consistent in their racism 🙂

@kimbers, I hope you are right… but I would not rule out several EU countries saying… “you’ve had your time, now choose… WA, No Deal, or a referendum… off you go, now”…

MPs should have given themselves the option to vote to revoke in the final hour… only producing legislation that is entirely dependant on the EU extending could prove to have been a massive misjudgement…

https://fd.nl/economie-politiek/1316096/kaag-verliest-geduld-over-brexit-op-een-gegeven-moment-is-het-klaar

Is that the logic?

Yes. As I understand it.
Labour change the rules so it is an option.
Momentum, and some others, feel it should have been mandatory and therefore want to always do it even if, in most cases, its just a checkbox exercise.

Whether or not its overly useful is a different question and why I avoid that level of politics. All I would note, again, though is this is completely in line with the other major parties so not really worth getting het up over and grabbing the pitchforks and torches unless they actually start voting people out.

The Brexiters I have talked about it with don’t think that. Immigration is bad full stop.

Yup. Indeed there are examples of some of the dimmer ones thinking brexit would stop those Nigerians, Pakistanis etc coming to the UK.

That said there was the specific campaigning aimed at the Asian community arguing that if we left then it would be better chance of more immigration from Commonwealth countries. They had the “Save our Curry Houses” brexit campaign.

Whether or not its overly useful is a different question and why I avoid that level of politics.

Well, the trigger votes have already led to MPs leaving the party … so I guess that not everyone has your sanguine indifferent view of them.

so I guess that not everyone has your sanguine indifferent view of them.

You seem to be missing the point. As I have already said it will impact some MPs but just having it on their agenda doesnt mean much in itself.
If it wasnt Momentum policy to always run reselection then it would. As it stands though it is meaningless unless you know a lot about their local politics which I dont and I really doubt you do.

why in a Brexiteers mind are Nigerian Nurses, Pakistani Doctors, India engineers, Bangladeshi care assistants and Aussie Bar Keeps more “acceptable” than Polish Plumbers, Estonian Electricians, Swedish Engineers, Hungarian Computer Programmers and French Nurses ?

Ah, but all those dark people illegally sailing to Italy, or coming through Turkey, then making their way to the UK would be excluded if we weren’t in the EU.

https://labourlist.org/2019/08/how-labours-trigger-ballot-system-works/

https://labourlist.org/2019/08/how-to-avoid-failing-a-trigger-ballot/

Some light reading for anyone considering taking @dissonance’s comments at face value.

Bozos first trip to Ireland as PM?

What are the odds that there’s a classic Johnson gaffe that hardens everyone’s resolve?

Some light reading for anyone considering taking @dissonance’s comments at face value.

Feel free to actually list where I am wrong rather than trying to imply it.
Come on.
Give some facts.

Remember once a **** gain. The question is whether or not the fact momentum have it listed as an item on their list actually means anything. Not the finer details of what the full process means.

What are the odds that there’s a classic Johnson gaffe that hardens everyone’s resolve?

My money’s on another ‘Road to Mandalay’ incident involving some Loyalist songs and a bowler hat.

😁

Feel free to actually list where I am wrong rather than trying to imply it.

As you said, you can’t be bothered with the details of how this process works, or how it is being used politically… for those that can be bothered, I provided some links that sketch out the basics.

unless they actually start voting people out.

Two things, thing one: why implement a change unless you expressly want to use it? Thing two, which battle do you the link the left of Labour is fighting? Long term control of the PLP, or beating the tories?

I provided some links that sketch out the basics.

No you finally bothered paying enough attention to find one highly partisan article.
You also missed all my references to the fact it could be used aggressively but lets deal with the context.
You and others got all excited over a tweet without having a clue as to the background, until you did a quick google now.
So whilst Johnson really is purging the tory party enmass from on high we have idiots comparing to Labour bringing their MP (re)selection process inline with the other parties (actually its still harder to deselect than for the others but hey why lets details get in the way).

Thing two,

I love leading questions like this. I would go for in general both although obviously there will be exceptions either way. After all its always more fun to hate someone with similar but slightly diverging views than someone with completely different views.
The same can be said of the centrists although I suspect there would be more exceptions in favour of the long term control of the party at least whilst it was under Cameron and co. As it is diving hard right the number will reduce.

To be fair to Labour, I’m not sure any MPs have been deselected have they? The Tories have managed to expel 21 in one go. Whereas, under the Labour leadership, their MPs have walked all by themselves.

You don’t think that they were pushed out? And that the trigger ballot process was one of the key tools used to do that?

I love leading questions like this

It isn’t a leading question. I’m actually interested (amazing I know) what your thoughts on it are

You know like a discussion, rather than just stating argument positions

You don’t think that they were pushed out? And that the trigger ballot process was one of the key tools used to do that?

Oh no, absolutely not kelvin. How could such an innocent process be responsible for that? :o)

You don’t think that they were pushed out? And that the trigger ballot process was one of the key tools used to do that?

Certainly not in Mann’s case.

In fact Mann is completely in sync with his constituents (EU). Mann has just been completely at odds with Corbyn from day one. That and a load of AS tittle tattle.

Mann has been the architect here.

I have never liked Mann, but that “tittle tattle” comment reminds me how one of Labour’s biggest problems is the way a small minority of those who seek to defend Corbyn, in all circumstances, respond to criticism of anything going on within the Labour ranks.

Thing two, which battle do you the link the left of Labour is fighting? Long term control of the PLP, or beating the tories?

Both I’d say, but one has to come before the other. The received wisdom that you can’t beat the tories with left of centre policies is wrong. From day one I’ve seen the ‘Corbyn’ project as an effort to realign labour for the long term behind a pro-investment, progressive, redistributionist programme which looks something like a mix between Germany and the Scandinavian countries. To do that they need to abandon the short term election by election approach and look ahead, and they can only do that if they control* the party.

The problem with new labour was that they didn’t see winning election as the means to an end, but the just the end. That’s why they squandered they opportunity they had. Sure they made a lot of lives (temporarily) better by paying them off with benefits funded from borrowed money, but they didn’t make any real attempt to radically change how our society and economics works so that it serves ordinary people. The labour leadership today are trying to do that, and it’s a long term project.

*By ‘control’, what it really means is democratic control by the members, but seeing as the wishes of the membership and current leadership are tightly aligned it’s pretty much the same.

Yup. Indeed there are examples of some of the dimmer ones thinking brexit would stop those Nigerians, Pakistanis etc coming to the UK.

They haven’t even noticed that since the referendum EU immigration has dropped but overall immigration is about the same – i.e. more non-EU. It’s almost as if we need immigrant labour. Of course after no deal and the collapse of UK industry there won’t be so many jobs to fill, so that’ll fix it eh?

To do that they need to abandon the short term election by election approach and look ahead, and they can only do that if they control* the party.

& in the meantime whilst they are gaining control of the party whilst not defeating the Tories, Britain is crashing out of the EU thereby damaging the country in such a way as to make the socialist idyll much, much more difficult to achieve in the forseeable future. That’s the plan?

Bercow’s had enough. Off at the end of october

I loved this particular ‘leak’

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1171046516452204544

which yougov have shotdown

either its a double double bluff & cummings is just preteding to be desperate or hes **** it

Im loving the rumours that bercow might not leave the speakers chair to keep parliament open

hes stepping down now so hes so crazy he might just do it

 whilst they are gaining control of the party whilst not defeating the Tories

You can’t beat the tories if you don’t have the party behind you. That’s one lesson learned from the New Labour period. It’s highly ironic that the left are often accused of being the stalinists, for there was no better than Blair and Campbell at ruling with an iron fist. The difference between them and the current leadership, is that now they want the party to be a broader movement dedicated to a mission much bigger than simply keeping the tories out of power.

Iron fist?

However did Corbyn and others avoid that then?

However did Corbyn and others avoid that then?

Why enforce it when you have the numbers to ignore any troublemakers? Blair and Brown essentially dictated policy, and used Campbell to enforce message discipline around it. Lets not forget also that they imposed parliamentary candidates on constituencies with little or no consultation or discussion, and degraded the role of members to little more than subscribers and ovation providers at party conferences.

Seems we never lost our sovereignty.

No-deal Brexit officially blocked in law

Woo!

Why enforce it when you have the numbers to ignore any troublemakers?

So, there was no iron fist, just a thumping great majority.