EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Viewing 40 posts - 51,721 through 51,760 (of 55,611 total)
  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Well it will take up a lot less space than putting a turbine on every rooftop, damming every valley and filling all the inland seaways but whatever.

    Potential does not equal delivered. When a Hinkley can deliver more than a tidal farm or a mountain of wind reliably and predictably where does it stand?

    Mind you somewhere in UKIP/Tory HQ there is somebody chuckling that divided we fall. Want the UK and Scotland in the EU forget going it alone challenge it here and now.  Don’t give people the fall back option that it will almost certainly, probably really should be OK. Sort it out now.

    mattyfez
    Member

    I quite like the idea of micro power generation rather then centralised energy companies.

    Imagine if every house had to have solar and a windmill on the roof..

    tjagain
    Member

    There is a scotland / england interconnect that will show energy flows and its live on the net somewhere

    One advantage of an independent scotland would be we would be able to set our own energy policy and would not have to face the rigged market that makes scottish suppliers supplying electricity to scotland pay more to access the grid than english suppliers supplying England

    there is a perfectly workable plan to modernise Scotland electricity generation sitting on the shelf but Holyrood does not have the power to do it – partly because of the rigged market that is UK wide adn controlled by westminster

    By my understanding Scotland generally exports power to england.  dunno if its still so since longannet and cockenzie went tho.

    Scotland produced IIRC ( and ican’t be bothered looking it up again) more than half its electricity from renewables and the amount is increasing all the time.  Thats not potentially half – thats in actual megathingies deliverd

    So Energy is really not a good card to play to do down the idea of independence for Scotland as its one area that independence would be an obvious advantage

    tjagain
    Member

    Infact here is some analysis – dunno how valid

    Scotland-England Electricity Transfers

    tjagain
    Member

    As we sit right now renewables are producing 30% of the UK electricity, Nuclear 20%

    http://gridwatch.co.uk/

    tjagain
    Member

    Reding a bit more losing longgannet and cockenzie has meant that in a winter high pressure event Scotland imports from england.  this is far less that the exports over the year

    Scotland desperately needs a new gas generator or two ( with all that gas found recently in the north sea) for these events but we are not allowed to build one / its made uneconomic by the rigged market  Only would need to run around 30 – 40 days a year

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Given how the last one went if people want an energy thread best start a separate one…. Otherwise it will just be a repeat of several others.

    tjagain
    Member

    Indeed mike – and a scottish independence one a well

    Just correcting some utter bollox tho 😉

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    The government published a list of brexit unknowns last week

    It’s a long list

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8408

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    The government published a list of brexit knowns last week

    It’s a short list

    1/ We’re ****ed

    2/ Er, that’s it.

    3/ No wait! Blue Passports!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    The government published a list of KNOWN brexit unknowns last week

    FIFY

    That is only the list of things they have thought of so far. Add about 20-30% more for things they have not considered

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So is anyone going to vote for mays deal which is unacceptable to everyone?

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber
    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Depends on what that deal will look like by March. My guess is that, by then, she’ll have backtracked on all the red lines (I suspect she was always aware she’d have to do this anyway) so we’ll end up with Brexit in name only, Customs Union, single market and payments to Brussels

    So the choice put to a parliamentary vote will be ‘its this or the no deal financial abyss of the headbangers making… so which is it to be?’

    At that point, when reality bites, I expect it’ll be the Brexiteer loons who will then be screaming for a ‘People’s Vote’

    tjagain
    Member

    Trouble is chequers or any varient similar is not going to be the deal.  She wants 7 impossible things before breakfast.

    However whatever cobbled together deal she does make will only get tory loyalists and a few deluded laboutr voting for it.

    I rate her chances of getting any deal to put to parliament as less than 50/50 and her chances of getting anything thru next to zero

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Whatever happens, as squeaky bum time approaches, and reality bites, I expect the political landscape is going to look very very different in this country

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Good article in the graun link

    We’ve moved so far from what the Leave campaign mooted before the referendum that models for Brexit that were never even considered before the vote now look like the centre way

    The past two years have felt like a vast exercise in gaslighting – the method of psychological coercion that involves subtly undermining people’s confidence in what is real until they begin to question their own judgment. Thus have the parameters of sanity in the debate shifted. The norms have moved so far that any deal starts to look like a victory for common sense over extremism. But that is only because today’s political maps don’t even mark the spot where realistic accounts of Britain’s European interests used to appear.

    An all this on a majority of 52%, which almost certainly no longer exists anyway

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    An all this on a majority of 52%, which almost certainly no longer exists anyway

    Yes but in the wacky world of UK politics less than 40% can be enough to elect a majority government.

    Leku
    Member

    Brexit so far;

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    We’ve moved so far from what the Leave campaign mooted before the referendum that models for Brexit that were never even considered before the vote now look like the centre way

    This.

    Some leavers were saying ‘oh there’ll be a really close relationship’ after Brexit, others were saying they needed a clean break.  This is why a 2nd ref is essential.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/09/who-voices-alarm-academics-denied-visas-to-visit-uk-conference

    LSHTM calls for international conferences to be held outside of the UK, due to British Visa policies

    t’s no longer acceptable to organise major international meetings in UK or US. If you create hostile environments you can’t expect people to come & spend money. We had problems during @ASPHERoffice meeting in London – eminent colleague unable to get visa. Disgraceful.

    But apparently, we’re an outward looking global country that is going to g out into that big wide world and succeed!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45795833

    Theresa May has been warned of “dire” electoral consequences for the Tories if she persists with her Brexit plan.

    Yep, we can see what the real issue is there…. It’s job security for the Tory Party

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/u-s-is-said-to-mull-blocking-u-k-from-global-procurement-pact

    Did anyone else see this? Looks like we’re going to get bitch slapped when we try and join the WTO as well, by not only Argentina and Spain – but our extra special friends across the pond as well!

    Watching the worlds of chest thumping empire loving brexiters crumble around them is going to be good fun. Turns out, no one likes Britain and there is **** all we can do about it!

    mattyfez
    Member

    Someone in the express comments today said that thier human rights would be violated if there wasn’t a no deal scanario.

    I was almost tempted to sign up just so that I could point out that the human rights act is based on European law and that they wouldn’t have any human rights if it were not for the EU.

    But I thought it would be a wasted effort.. if you’ve ever read the comments on there you’ll see they are a bunch of dribbling flag waving morons..

    Noone, politically at least, is talking about problems with WTO membership. Just accepted as a done deal

    The absolute state of politicians in the UK.

    mefty
    Member

    I was almost tempted to sign up just so that I could point out that the human rights act is based on European law and that they wouldn’t have any human rights if it were not for the EU.

    Just as well you didn’t, you avoided making a fool of yourself.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Just as well you didn’t, you avoided making a fool of yourself.

    How so in the daily express context of no more European anything ..?

    The human rights contained within this law are based on the articles of the European Convention on Human Rights. The Act ‘gives further effect’ to rights and freedoms guaranteed under the European Convention. It means:

    • Judges must read and give effect to other laws in a way which is compatible with Convention rights.
    • It is unlawful for a public authority to act in a way which is incompatible with a Convention right.
    mefty
    Member

    The ECHR is separate from the EU, for instance members include Russia, so when we leave the EU we will still be a member.

    Noone, politically at least, is talking about problems with WTO membership. Just accepted as a done deal

    That is because historically, even as late as 2003 – Britain has been used to being able to get it’s way geopolitically. There has been a steady decline in our relevance since the collapse of the iron curtain , that has now come to an acute head. Mainland Europe has more power relative to us than it ever has – while the rest of the world still dislikes us due to empire etc. Our only friends were the yanks and Aussies and even they aren’t reliable partners now.

    Our politicians typical PPE education seems to equip them for the economic and political landscape of the 18th century as well – I should imagine a good understanding of game theory and thus how the newly developed world now operates and responds to British interests, is well beyond them.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    <div class=”bbp-reply-author”>mefty
    <div class=”bbp-author-role”>
    <div class=””>Member</div>
    </div>
    </div>

    <div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

    The ECHR is separate from the EU, for instance members include Russia, so when we leave the EU we will still be a member.

    Well that’s not true is it. Leaving the EU won’t make us leave the ECHR but that doesn’t mean we’ll remain a member. At the moment we’re compelled to but a lot fo the far right brexit headbangers want to drag us out, and while May has committed to staying in even she accepted she has no commons majority to do so.And all through the campaign people used the ECHR as an example of things we need to turk back control of.

    </div>

    mefty
    Member

    If there is no Bill to leave the ECHR she doesn’t need a majority because there will be no vote, the status quo will be maintained, leaving the ECHR is not an automatic consequence of the passage of any of the Bills going through parliament (or Acts already passed.)

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Hopefully the EU will tie in ECHR membership to any deal they offer the UK… because May made plenty of noises about getting out from under it when she was Home Secretary… and there are plenty in her party that feel even stronger about it. Even though the ECHR is a huge success story for the UK… it looks like we may require other countries to make/encourage us to stick with it.

    Now, back to business …

    The absolute state of politicians in the UK.

    It’s a “bait-and-switch” con job.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    <div class=”bbp-reply-author”>mefty
    <div class=”bbp-author-role”>
    <div class=””>Member</div>
    </div>
    </div>

    <div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

    leaving the ECHR is not an automatic consequence of the passage of any of the Bills going through parliament (or Acts already passed.

    Nobody here suggested otherwise, as you well know.

    </div>

    mefty
    Member

    Nobody here suggested otherwise, as you well know.

    I do and therefore I wonder how they are comfortable with saying my initial post is untrue.

    The National Audit Office absolutely savaging Brexit this morning.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/10/pmqs-brexit-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-question-national-audit-office-chief-over-brexit-planning-politics-live?page=with:block-5bbdcc70e4b053c268ac628a#block-5bbdcc70e4b053c268ac628a

    But of course, Brexit supporting MPs need no help in savaging themselves. Who votes for these people?

    Peter Bone, the Conservative Brexiter, goes next,

    He says Morse is being unusually frank for a civil servant. He is answering questions.

    Morse says he isn’t a civil servant. He works for the House of Commons. (The NAO reports to parliament, not to government.)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Wow, that is a little blunt there, of course we all know what we think of experts. To the unicorn farm batman!

    Wow, that is a little blunt there, of course we all know what we think of experts. To the unicorn farm batman!

    Meanwhile, headline news at the BBC is “Gay Cake!”

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    DUP now threatening to vote against the budget, if May signs up to an Irish backstop that’s acceptable to the Irish government. A circle that’s hard to square.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Cross fingers … some circlesquaring … that may help keep DUP onboard … but then there’s the ERG … multiplayer chess … of course it fits with Corbyn&Co’s policy so far (because his position really does matter) …

Viewing 40 posts - 51,721 through 51,760 (of 55,611 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.