why the Tory right are apparently ignoring reality when it comes to Brexit.

Because they are ****?

Got a link or is it nsfw?

Maybe this one?  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/06/britain-eu-motives-brexit

Its a simple lack of understanding and living in an echo chamber from many I think – plus those who want a deregulated economy

On the basis that article isn’t by Nick Cohen, it is safe to assume it isn’t.

@mike noted you are now in Manchester

@aracer the Labour party fought the 2017 GE on no freedom of movement, no single market and no customs union. I imagine some the left leaning / remain papers mentioned it. The first two they put in the manifesto the last one the shadow minister confirmed it in an interview.

Northern Rock was bust. It was taken over by the government to stop people losing their money, businesses their loans/overdrafts and staff being out of a job all pretty much overnight.

Interesting comment from Newsnight panel discussion (available on youtube) that now leaving the single market and customs union isn’t “hard brexit” for remainers. Shows they have come to terms with reality, now “hard brexit” means WTO.

WTO Brexit is the simplest and cleanest form, certainly needs time to prepare but we do 60% of our trade outside the EU (IMO real number is higher for RoW and lower for EU, Rotterdamn effect and trade diversion caused by EU protectionism = higher prices paid by uk consumers). As I posted before we have a £30 trade surplus in services with the EU and £60bn with the rest of the world.

Why do we need the WTO?  If it puts up prices in UK shops why not just ignore it?

but we do 60% of our trade outside the EU

Surely that’s under the terms of EU trade agreements, which we won’t have post-Brexit…?

Haven’t we just cancelled all our trade agreements?

@zippy standards, trade dispute resolution etc

@moly yes that does include trade with South Korea etc which is subject to EU negotiated agreements but those will be “photocopied”. Our largest trade counterpary is the US (ignoring EU as being one country). Interesting stat from Ozzy diplomat – we used to do 7% of their trade now its 2% as stuff was diverted to EU. Australia is looking forward to getting that trade back. As I said every new trade deal means less business for the EU in the future.

Yup.

Aviation knackered, raw materials import costs up, financial industry knackered.

No word on how our families living in on the continent will be affected.

I wonder how the knackered UK social care system and lack of affordable housing will cope with the redundancies and knock on health issues.

Don’t get ill or lose your jobs peeps, it’s all worth it for a different colour passport.

“Rotterdamn effect”

Are you still trotting out this tired old lie???

“ignoring EU as being one country”

How convenient….

To be fair jamby, El Presidente Trump has already offered us a crippling aviation deal.

A sign of things to come from our special relationship with the USA.

The vultures are circling over the carcass of the UK’s exposed underbelly, make no mistake.

Jamb, why can we not sort out our own standards and disputes?We will be arranging our own trade deals,it’s not like we’ve never done it before. If we enter into a trade agreement with someone and they don’t like what we do surely they can just take their money elsewhere.

How dare a foreign organisation march into this country and tell me to put my prices up by 30%. We are showing the EU that we are prepared to sacrifice everything for freedom only to enslave ourselves to the despotic WTO.

“photocopied”

Which country has said that they won’t be seeking additional concessions from us when we seek to replace trade deals? When will these new trade deals be ready? Do we leave the EU in a little over 12 months time?

WTO Brexit is the simplest and cleanest form, certainly needs time to prepare

How long will preparations take? Do we leave the EU in a little over 12 months time?

And it’s fairly apparent that along with the rest of Theresa’s pie-in-the-sky book of dreams, there’s not going to be a ‘transitional period’ either.

12 months to take off….

no single market and no customs union

When does the switch over from CHIEF to CDS complete to support trading with EU&EEA countries as an outside country? Do we leave the EU in a little over 12 months time?

Also David Davies today, I’m paraphrasing..

“There’s about 11 big issues that we can’t agree on, but I can’t remember what any of them are”

We could literally replace our government with a cold, 2 day old lasegna and get more coherent ideas.

@moly yes that does include trade with South Korea etc which is subject to EU negotiated agreements but those will be “photocopied”

But the other country has to agree to that!  We’re weaker and smaller than the EU, and they know we need the trade deals asap, so they’ll want to extract more concessions from us.  They can simply shop elsewhere in the meantime.

Naive in the extreme to think that will all go swimmingly, IMO.

@aracer the Labour party fought the 2017 GE on no freedom of movement, no single market and no customs union. I imagine some the left leaning / remain papers mentioned it. The first two they put in the manifesto the last one the shadow minister confirmed it in an interview.

May has campaigned on the platform of a fairer and more united Britain, the presumed end goals of which she appears to be travelling further away from on a daily basis. I wouldn’t put too much faith in any political commitment or manifesto promise from any party until it’s actually in law.

Northern Rock was bust. It was taken over by the government to stop people losing their money, businesses their loans/overdrafts and staff being out of a job all pretty much overnight.

Free market: suck it up, sunshine. Either the government can re-nationalise industries or it can’t. What it definitely should not be doing is corporatising the profits whilst nationalising the risks.

WTO Brexit is the simplest and cleanest form

Well, except for all the agreements and regulations that would need to be re-written and agreed, including air travel, standards, nuclear industry regulation, NI, etc. Really, WTO Brexit is about as messy a Brexit as it can be.

but we do 60% of our trade outside the EU

So we do 40% with the EU, just less than half. And you willingly wish to put that in jeopardy? Seems like one hell of a risk.

higher prices paid by uk consumers

Please explain how paying WTO tariffs on imports will reduce prices for British consumers. I’ll wait.

@zippy standards, trade dispute resolution etc

But why do we need these aspects? Surely they’re just anti-democratic supranational entities telling a sovereign nation what it can and can’t do?

Folks quoting “we do 60% of our trade outside the EU” may not be correct.

The confusion arises  as I recall around the difference between exports and trade.

Again as I recall, at the last count 49% of our foreign trade is with the EU and countries via EU trade agreements takes it to 60%.

I may of course be entirely wrong – but I suspect not.

Jamba – for what it’s worth, while I think you are coming across as a little inexperienced and naive, I would say you are also coming across as idealistic and fairly clear on your principles.

Now I don’t think your principles will work in the real world, but good on you for having them and being willing to share them.

Totally agree with you zokes, maybe we are now just hoping the government has set itself up to fail on purpose and back down slowly.

“Look for your friends. But do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands.”

Naive in the extreme to think that will all go swimmingly, IMO.

Are you some kind of enemy of the people. Jamba has explained everything will just be run through the photocopy and then EU tippexed out and replace with UK. Its only one character difference so should be easy enough.

jambalaya wrote:

@aracer<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> the Labour party fought the 2017 GE on no freedom of movement, no single market and no customs union. I imagine some the left leaning / remain papers mentioned it. The first two they put in the manifesto the last one the shadow minister confirmed it in an interview.</span>

Exactly what has that got to do with anything I wrote?

I think this is the Nick Cohen article mentioned:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/04/brexit-culture-war-tory-right-compromise-impossible-mocking-liberals

More good news about WTO Brexit. Not good news for farming.

Dipping a toe in the horrible nightmare of what Brexit is going to do to agriculture exports https://t.co/o0EJHPwNkX pic.twitter.com/GyK635Z7bn

— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) March 6, 2018

Brexshit

Making everyone’s holidays a bit shitter since 2019

https://news.sky.com/story/roaming-charges-may-be-back-after-brexit-11279406

Is there no way we can just apply the e tea charges to leave voters?

Or at least rename it Brexit roaming fee

How is the George Soros money being spent?

I was hoping for adverts on telly and billboards spelling out what a disaster it is.

I get emails and pop ups on Facebook but nothing in public.

Is there a mega ad campaign planned?

He’s spending it with the Russians on having Boris Johnson, Rees-Mogg and IDS meet with unfortunate accidents.

One can but hope…

in, no question.

we do 60% of our trade outside the EU

40% with EU, 20% outside EU on trade terms negotiated by the EU is the figure I have seen most often quoted. So yes, 60% outside the EU is correct, but 1/3 of that trade is under common trade terms that we’ve said goodbye to.

At least we’ll be in the EMA, and I think they’ll be happy with that, since MHRA are such a big contributing element. Just a shame they will be leaving, nobody wants to go to Amsterdam and they are already struggling to recruit.

He’s spending it with the Russians on having Boris Johnson, Rees-Mogg and IDS meet with unfortunate accidents.

Don’t see it Putin loves a weak EU/UK, gives him another chance to nibble off a bit more of the Ukraine

seems like Tusk was a fan of Woolworths

Even Hammond who apperas to be the least unhinged of the cabinet simnply does not get it “Philip Hammond has put Britain on a fresh collision course with Brussels after he warned the government could reject any Brexit trade deal not including financial services.”

Does the really think that threat has any weight?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/07/tories-seek-to-block-move-to-reveal-donations-to-dup-in-eu-referendum

Who’d have thought it eh?

This would explain it all, possibly we can have David Davies sectioned – the Dunning–Kruger effect. I would happily acknowledge my own low ability in the context international trading arrangements other here of a brexit persuasion – SEEK COUNCILING NOW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

WTO Brexit is the simplest and cleanest form

Bit like saying a guillotine is the simplest and cleanest way to deliver a haircut.

you wouldnt be the 1st person to say that about Davis!

wto looks a spiffing option

Impact asssessments finally available

no wonder gov tried to cover them up

Well… Commons Brexit committee publishes the full 29 page official internal Brexit Impact study first leaked to @AlbertoNardelli and then further leaked to @skynews pic.twitter.com/W3wJKi5NJc

— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) March 8, 2018

they are hurting UK based on foolsih ideology

look how badly fisheries hit outside of CU & SM, no wonder Tusk so brazen over fishing rights, he know he has uK by the balls

Nothing is in as much of a hurry as a dead fish on the back of a lorry! Scotland like Norway exports most of its fish to the #EU that’s why like Norway, Scotland needs to be in the single market #Brexit pic.twitter.com/Qcdy58HiRd

— Joanna Cherry QC (@joannaccherry) February 22, 2018