I don’t know about that but I would predict loads of ‘I bought a bike advertised as X spec but its got Y, what should I do?’ threads 😉

julians

My local bosch dealer told me the opposite, they said that you get another two year warranty with any replacements

I had a new bosch motor under warranty at about the 6 month mark, and he said the warranty period restarts.

Know people who have had the same experience as above, the warranty restarts

I don’t know about that but I would predict loads of ‘I bought a bike advertised as X spec but its got Y, what should I do?’ threads 😉

You give people too much credit. “I bought spec X 2 years ago, I just bought X mk2 to upgrade it and it turns out I had spec Y all along but I never checked and now nothing fits and my bike is broken and its your fault and whats the CEO’s email address?”

hainman
Spesh offer a brand new full 4 year warranty with new motors

Spesh only offer 4 year on the 19-20 Levo and 20 Kenovo’s, as the owner experience lots of issues, it was a one off payback, but not extended to any new models of 2021 or 22 bikes

julians

On Bosch I’ve had zero issues but I’ve heard that if the motor dies say 3 months before the 2 year warranty is done your NEW motor is only covered for the 3 months left of the original 2 years which is a bloody PITA

My local bosch dealer told me the opposite, they said that you get another two year warranty with any replacements
I had a new bosch motor under warranty at about the 6 month mark, and he said the warranty period restarts.

@julians & @honourablegeorge
Bosch have change the rules, original warranty period only of the bike now.

@danbird
I know you in a sticky position, if there the only supplier, but for me and many others, I won’t be rushing to buy another shimano system. Not being repairable out of warranty, is a big big no no for me.

@Z1ppy luckily for us I guess (or not) demand is likely to massively outstrip supply, so while your comments and others are noted and we appreciate your feedback, it wouldn’t change our trajectory in terms of what we’re planning. We’re aware of the limitations of the Shimano system repairability at this time and the warranty, and will be launching with a plan to support our customers properly for a reasonable ‘lifetime’ expectation of a motor to ensure that our customers on Shimano motors get as good if not better overall experience than could be had elsewhere on other systems.

That won’t be the infinite warranty from Bosch as mentioned above but now seems to have been curtailed by Bosch (who can blame them?), but it will mean you won’t be high and dry 2 yrs and 1 day into your ownership.

I don’t know if I even want an ebike, but the discussion on this thread has made me realise what needs to happen before I could buy one.

We are now in a place with MTB geometry that I could buy a bike frame to last me more than a decade – and this bike’s proposed figures are an excellent example of that. Kudos to Dan for that.

But the battery and motor bits are still very immature technology, hugely unreliable compared to most consumer products – and in the case of Shimano there’s a big issue with serviceability.

Additionally, the motor mounting formats are changing with each iteration.

So I’m not interested until the industry (or at least a couple of the major players) agree common dimensions for the electric bits, giving the prospect of real longevity to frames – rather than tying them to motors which might be obsolete within a few years.

Is there any realistic prospect of this happening? Is anyone even trying to drive towards it?

fair comment, and taking on feedback… thats all we can ask

I’m into it but I don’t have the money sitting there ready to jump on the first batch so I’ll definitely miss those. I’ll be officially in my 40’s by the time they’re readily available which is a scary thought.

I like everything you’re saying especially about not being forced to buy parts you don’t need. That opens up so many build options and the ability to save loads of cash by reusing old forks, wheels etc.

I did want to buy a Commencal because they look mint and the pricing is vaguely sensible compared to the big brands but I didn’t want to be stuck with a dead bike when the inevitable happens. What do you do with a bike from a direct sales manufacturer in another country, and UK Shimano suppliers refusing to warranty an imported bike? It’s a recipe for a massive ball ache.

Keep doing what you’re doing Bird/Ethic. I can’t wait to ride one.

Additionally, the motor mounting formats are changing with each iteration.

Thats actually one of the key reasons we went shimano as they’re committed* to not changing them. It means in theory at least we could supply new updated motors to customers down the line. I expect that to be a core part of the strategy in terms of keeping these bikes running for the long term.

* Not written in stone

My family run a eco resort overseas and have about 20 enduro ebikes for rent for use in the mountains around their camp. They swear by the current e7000 on all bikes after having a lot of issues with the e8000 and newer Ep. Do not be put off my the current e7000 motor on more budget ebike builds. It is a pretty reliable unit.

A friend and I both bought focus ebikes last year with the Bosch motor and both have had no end of issues. He had a replacement motor last month and mine is currently at the bike shop getting looked at with the 550 error 🤷🏻‍♂️. Bird……. Sorry, ethic will be top of the list if or when I get another.

I got off to a shaky start with Bird, but these guys are the Shiznit. Their bikes are second to none (I have a 9C and a Forge). I also have 2 E-bikes, a Brose and a Bosch, they all have their plus points, limitations and faults. I would forget about the motor and go with the bike and brand. I will be on the wait list for a Ethic as soon as it becomes available.

PS. Who really cares about the name??

benpinnick

Thats actually one of the key reasons we went shimano as they’re committed* to not changing them

I wonder if they’ll ever commit to not changing I-Spec

I wonder if they’ll ever commit to not changing I-Spec

I think we all know the answer to that question.

I’m a fan of Bird mtb. Think it’s their customer service makes the brand stand out

I don’t think the name Ethic is a good name for the ebike, too confusing.
The ebike looks good but the big branding just doesn’t look great.
I’m afraid image is important to people and bikes aren’t cheap.

Other wise keep up the good work .

I’m not sure it matters what anyone thinks about the name 😀

Exactly, most folk don’t care what the name of their bike is, and rightly so. It’s a bike, with a made up name, there’s nothing confusing about it.

Don’t think the logo looks good nor is it ethical made.

I’m sure it’s super good to ride though.

nor is it ethical made.

Really, do we need to do this again?.

nor is it ethical made.

Really, do we need to do this again

Quite. I thought the bikes were made in Taiwan and Bird were based in Hampshire.

Quite. I thought the bikes were made in Taiwan and Bird were based in Hampshire.

I struggle to see how this makes them unethical (or unethic) in any way? Unless there is both an untapped aluminium ore seam under the home counties, and a load of unemployed experienced aluminium welders in Eversley.

Came on here thinking there might be more interesting info. Shut up about the name, boring!

Yeah, same here. I only want to see this thread update with hard facts, good pictures, videos and prices!

New stuff here…

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-the-new-ethic-highish-pivot-emtb.html

I think it looks mint apart from the downtube logo and droopy saddle

Check the depressingly predictable comments. I guess keyboard-wielding philosophy professors are the same all over the world.

Naw, rwading comments on PB is worse than the daily mail tbh.

Nice. Logo not an issue for me.

I’m not sure it matters what anyone thinks about the name 😀

Yes, it does
( As an ex global marketing / sales director speaking)
It is sad – but there is a thing called “brand value” – and if the brand image does not convey the right narrative to the target market then there will be big issue

I don’t doubt you, but I’ll bet my last 12 speed cassette that they sell out quick smart.

Mint. Mullet & a set of 180mm boxxers for me please. I hoping the fork rubber bumpers wont hit the cable outlet on the frame.

i hope they sell it with 10sp advent drivetrain. 12speed on an eeb is pointless.

looks like a focus too –

i quite like the high pivot though

12speed on an eeb is pointless.

Is it? Shimano motors seem to work better with a high cadence, so offering more options to keep cadence high seems sensible. Happy to be proved wrong, as ever!.

Looks the business.
Pinkbike seems to have crashed. They must love it and can’t get enough I assume.

Check the depressingly predictable comments. I guess keyboard-wielding philosophy professors are the same all over the world.

As a marketing person with a philosophy degree (and a keyboard), I resemble this comment.

The name is clearly a bit sub-optimal, but at least it’s not as cringey as Sick! Bicycles.

Let’s all just accept it and move on with our lives.

As eebs go I think it looks a lot better than most, though the welds look somewhat chunky and that saddle needs replacing.

Will these be able to be built into a ‘light’ ebike ala Orbea Rise/Spesh LS models? Not sure tbh how they control the weight, the Orbea has the same EP8 motor (with a retune) so is it mostly battery?

The lightweight ebike market needs some competition and being able to choose your battery size would be a real bonus.

ta11pau1

Will these be able to be built into a ‘light’ ebike ala Orbea Rise/Spesh LS models? Not sure tbh how they control the weight, the Orbea has the same EP8 motor (with a retune) so is it mostly battery?

The Rise has a smaller non removable battery, which is a big part of the weight saving. Outside of that, it also uses mostly non e-bike parts, so regular forks, tyres, etc.

i hope they sell it with 10sp advent drivetrain. 12speed on an eeb is pointless

disclaimer, I say this as someone who has had a few goes on ebikes, and has observed a number of people using them and overtaking me on them; not as an owner or afficionado.

From the people who seem to be using them well (that is, not riding slowly with their non-e friends, and not totally incompetent), there is no need for really low gearing. Going slower than a brisk walk is no good for bike riding.
We’ve all got low gears because we need the rest, or need to sit and spin on a long climb with our meagre meat-watts. But for actual techincal climbing, where you are inputting power through the pedals, you need a taller gear.
If I fail a low speed-techincal or uphill move, my first thought is to try again, one gear higher.
Eagle 52 tooth might climb a near vertical fire road without fatiguing you, but to get up a rock step, you need something to push against that doesnt just spin out the rear wheel.
With a motor providing most of the power, the first half of the above is irrelevent.

So I’d argue that you only need to pedal at your preferred cadence, between 5mph and 15.5mph. Especially on a heavy full power big travel soft tyred monster like this, pedalling above the cut off is unlikely to happen much.
So based on the above, a 11-34 cassette would work – with chainring sized to your preference and rear wheel size. Bonus of taking some unsprung weight off the rear axle too.

The Rise has a smaller non removable battery, which is a big part of the weight saving. Outside of that, it also uses mostly non e-bike parts, so regular forks, tyres, etc.

Yeah, which will be customisable if they offer it as frame + motor.

However just seen on the facebook comments that an SL ebike might be next, so probably not for this one.

Is it? Shimano motors seem to work better with a high cadence, so offering more options to keep cadence high seems sensible. Happy to be proved wrong, as ever!.

Assuming there’s no need to pedal past the limiter (especially on a long travel bike weighing 40lb+ with tacky tyres) then by that same argument you don’t need the tall gears either.

A 327% 11-36 cassette gets you from walking pace to the limiter at the same cadence.

Will these be able to be built into a ‘light’ ebike ala Orbea Rise/Spesh LS models? Not sure tbh how they control the weight, the Orbea has the same EP8 motor (with a retune) so is it mostly battery?

It’s there in the article. They had to make a decision and it sounds like they made it in 2019.

Personally I’m only interested in a full-fat e-mtb. I don’t need one for health reasons (whatever people mean by that) and I don’t need a little bit of assistance on the occasional long ride. It would hopefully fill the gap left by my much missed but dusty and unused DH bike. I’d use it to do as many laps as possible on steep, tech trails where in the dark ages we used to push our bikes back up the hill.

As long as it handles like a beast on the way down and can replace a stinky, diesel uplift bus on the way up that’s all I want.

It’s there in the article. They had to make a decision and it sounds like they made it in 2019.

It doesn’t actually say what the answers to those design decisions were though 😀

Like I said, I don’t know how much weight the battery size factors into it, or if the frame itself has to be designed as an SL rather than a full fat ebike.

An SL ebike interests me greatly for big days out in the big hills, enough assistance to take the edge off 5 days solid riding but (just) light enough to be able to hike-a-bike or not put my back out lifting it over gates etc.

TBH I won’t be in the market for another couple of years so an SL version in 2024 would suit me fine!