What do people think?
Anyone got one?

http://www.empire-cycles.com/product/16/empire-mx-6-medium-red

f’ugly.

solution looking for a problem.

Ugly, dated, seat tube looks like a weak point, it’s unproven, i wouldn’t be tempted to part with that sort of cash for that. Dh bike wasn’t a massive success either. Fair play for trying something new but i think they’ll struggle to sell that in such a strong market, the hard hitting trail bikes category (if there is such thing) is well catered for with the cotic rocket, nukeproof mega(s), stumpy evo, enduro, transition bandit/covert, zety/spicy, five/alpine etc etc

the first empire frames were cast – which is a stupid way to make a bicycle frame.

the new frames are machined from solid, which is even more stupid.

I hate to say this about a bicycle but….it’s pointless.

arthur – chances are no one will have one, so go and try and get a demo.

I have had the DH bike for about 4yrs now, one of the first ones to be made. I cant fault it. Had a various other DH frames that lasted less than a year.

I do agree that these are in a very tough market though, and have a bit of a mix of welding, casting and machining which is over complicated. If it does work well why not be different.

the first empire frames were cast – which is a stupid way to make a bicycle frame.

Why do you think that?

do not buy it thay do break. i was going to get there dh frame tul i heard one crumbled away during a hard dh ride in france google search empire (ap1 i think it is) crumbles

To stand up for it a bit, although I dont know the company personally.

Its still cast if you read the blurb, edit only the seatube, it is machined from billet…sorry chaps.

The seatube though vulnerable looking is completely replaceable.

I think its only downside for me is the shock getting all the crap thrown on it like my old Specialized…

I think the comment should have had a *.

* vs ‘normal’ ways of making bikes which is cheaper (judging by the price of this thing) and I assume easier to fine tune things like ride through wall thickness etc.

27.2mm seat post by the look of it? Epic. Fail.

27.2mm seat post by the look of it? Epic. Fail.

Not looking to cause arguments but apart from the lack of dropper posts in 27.2, why? I’ve found that it gives much more comfort than a 30.9 or whatever due to having slightly more flex.

watsontony – perhaps you could link to this…as I said I have had the DH frame for 5yrs so would be interested in seeing this.

It’s a full susser so shouldn’t need seatpost flex to stay comfy. On the other hand it’s an all-mountain machine, and current fashion is to run a dropper, making 27.2 a shit choice of size

Funnily enough, the top result in “Empire Ap-1 crumbles” is this thread….

tonyfail

Thought it was 4 years? Make yer mind up 😉

From my dh days they did have a reputation for cracking. The proof of the pudding tends to be how many are seen after they’ve been out for a few years. You still see lots of Sundays, can’t remember the last time I saw an Empire

The fact that the Reverb is the most popular dropper post and for good reason, I think anyone looking for a trail bike with gravity enduro style events or even just tech trail riding in general in mind would be looking for a reverb (or similar)compatible seat tube. iscg mounts are a good inclusion, the fact that the seat tower is replaceable is good but I wouldn’t fancy it failing on me!

Lack of availability of good choice in 27.2mm dropper posts.

Honestly, if you were to go ahead now and design a full sus frame of the Empire ilk and look at the sort of competition, would you build it with a 27.2mm post??

Why do you think that?

alloys suitable for casting are not known for their strength. It’s also very difficult/impossible to cast thin walled components.

so it’ll end up heavier than a similarly strong/stiff frame made from tubes.

motorbike frames are sometimes cast, when the manufacturer decides that the extra weight is acceptable, and when they’re sure that they can sell enough to bring the price down (casting small numbers is expensive).

and machining from solid takes ages. so it’s expensive.

…why not be different?

because it’s expensive?

but they can of course do what they want…

Legend – both actually, its 4years and 8 months. 😆

back to the point. I have never seen a failed empire. Although people claim they have. Most people take pictures of cracked bikes and I have seen no pictures of crakced AP-1 frames. I will be interested to see if you find one as then I can keep an eye on those areas.

I like the DH bike, so go give the MX-6 a try.

Ahwhiles – Rules of welding

1. Dont weld it

although that would make me jobless 😀

Loving all the ‘expertise’ in engineering/framebuilding on display here. Keep ’em coming, it’s hilarious. 🙄

You still see lots of Sundays, can’t remember the last time I saw an Empire

Of course Sundays were like belly buttons a few years back whereas the AP1 was a much rarer beast..

I love the sheer bonkerness of Empire, and they have a good, honest aesthetic.

I think it’s laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavly, but I want the one in the piccy not the one that the spec lists!!

http://wordplus.georgfischer.com/628/969/3090.asp?print=true

Empire might have got a little help from GeorgFischer.

Although KTM still use welded steel frames.
http://www.ktm.com/sk/freeride/freeride-350/highlights/benefit/652/benefit/Product.html

http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=467C19605AD4426C99B25BE4A0BF361A

Looks great in the flesh, I saw one at a DH race at Caersws a year or so ago. I think you’d need a test ride before parting with the dosh though. The designer is a nice bloke though, spent a good while chatting with him even though he knew I wasn’t interested in buying one

I think it’s brilliant, its got some flaws but who cares? You’re not being forced to buy one