Elon Musk

I think that if I, somehow, in the eyes of millions of people, made a gesture that people were describing as a Nazi/fascist/Roman salute, my response would be more along the lines of being mortified and profusely apologetic

That was the point of the article in The Atlantic, sometimes people make awkward gestures, but the key thing to watch is what happens afterwards.

the key thing to watch is what happens afterwards

The key thing to watch is what happened before... what more context is needed?

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2025/01/10/musk-doubles-down-on-support-for-german-far-right-leader_6736883_143.html

"Only AfD can save Germany, end of story," declared Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, during a live stream discussion broadcasted on X with Alice Weidel, leader for the far-right party Alternative for Germany (AfD), on Thursday, January 9. "People really need to get behind AfD, otherwise things are going to get very, very much worse in Germany."

Yep, we all knew what he was before, the cesspit he created in twitter, the funding of far right parties, the support for Yaxley-Lennon and his ilk. His seig heil moment didn't really move the dial.

Removing oligarchy money from politics and ending the ridiculous lobbying system should be one of the highest priorities for any government that has even a fleeting interest in democracy (far far more important than reforming the house of lords in the uk). I won't hold my breath waiting though, I haven't seen any indication that western leaders see the dangers even when so graphicly laid out for them and are willing to act, I can't even remember any one other than Bernie Sanders voicing the problem.

I think that if I, somehow, in the eyes of millions of people, made a gesture that people were describing as a Nazi/fascist/Roman salute, my response would be more along the lines of being mortified and profusely apologetic, and not “oh look how the wokes are accusing everyone of being Nazis now”. And when it became clear that a whole bunch of neo-Nazis are cheering along because they believed I had intentionally made that gesture, I’d be very emphatic in telling them to **** off and that I had no wish to be associated with them in any manner.

*Applause*

And so much more important than trying to guess what goes on in that guy's head or his motives.

You're either 100% against this stuff or you're potentially part of it, since being neutral isn't much of an option based on what history has shown us.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3rEVAvrrEN1PPswpTCYZmi

I thought this was good, The Rest Is Politics discussing Elon Musk a few weeks before his 'salute' thing. Rory Stewart mentions them shifting 'the Overton window', interesting point on how these guys all allow each other to be a bit more far right, bit by bit, plausible deniability covering them along the way.

And that's a concept that James OBrien and Dr Ahmed get onto in the LBC clip posted on the previous page (which is very good) - how the salute can be seen as part of a strategy of normalising this kind of thing, bringing it into the mainstream to normalise it. Slow boiling water.

After watching that LBC clip and hearing about the way cryptocurrency is (or can be) used against established democracy I looked up the bitcoin price in the months before and since the US election results. Oh..

If Trump and Musk start talking about the $ as becoming less important than it was ...

PayPal was the start of Thiel and Musk's endeavors to subvert (international)/national bank oversight - and crypto the obvious next step to subvert democracy.

Trump (or the people pulling his strings) is making his crypto position pretty clear already....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/22/howard-lutnick-secretary-commerce-nominee

I’m sensing a market for discreet bumper stickers we could attach to Teslas….

Bit unfair on people who bought before the owner decided to go full banana.

Don’t forget Porsche’s Tiger Tank model they don’t tend to market anymore or forget VW’s use of slave labour if your going down the car blaming route 🙁

Bit unfair on people who bought before the owner decided to go full banana.

They can cover it with one of the stickers saying they brought it before he went nuts.

Don’t forget Porsche’s Tiger Tank model they don’t tend to market anymore or forget VW’s use of slave labour if your going down the car blaming route

As far as I am aware their current CEOs arent in favour of those? So seems like possibly it could be considered different. Although when to stop holding companies/people responsible is always tricky. For example I cant really blame those ex pows who never forgave Japan and so always boycotted them.

Ford would be a better comparison as well since Musk does seem a close reinvention of him.

crypto the obvious next step to 

hiding a load of cash from the taxman?

I hear the uber rich aren't keen on paying tax.

Sometimes people make mistakes. Apologizing afterwards makes a big difference.

Cruise Line Insists Crew Dressed Up as ‘Snow Cones’ Not KKK

@fingerbang that's an excellent video

A great video. Torn between thinking reading that book* could be either the best or worst thing I could do right now.

[ * Alt Reich, by Nafeez Ahmed ]

Apologies if it's been done, but someone sent me a link to the salute video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cpdxzjw9p47o

There is no way on this Earth that's anything other than a dog whistle with a side order of plausible deniability, it's surely intentional.

Led by Donkeys have posted their video now:

He's not a naughty boy. He's a fascist.

Bit unfair on people who bought before the owner decided to go full banana.

Just for clarity, when was the man not a complete ****?

Don’t forget Porsche’s Tiger Tank model they don’t tend to market anymore or forget VW’s use of slave labour if your going down the car blaming route

Is he also wearing Hugo Boss designed suits?

Just in case anyone had any doubts, here's a historian writing about how there's no trace of the Roman salute in the history of the Romans, and when ts invented (clue: much much later):

https://theconversation.com/elon-musk-and-the-history-of-the-roman-salute-248032

Well here's an interesting turn of events, the American Zionist organisation the Anti-Defamation League, which initially defended Elon Musk's Nazi salute, has finally had enough of him. Apparently they weren't too impressed with Elon Musk's hilarious puns about the Holocaust. :

The Anti-Defamation League Is Finally Sick of Elon Musk’s Nazi Jokes

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/adl-elon-musk-nazi-jokes-1235244824/

No such problem for fellow far-right racist Benjamin Netanyahu however. A man who has always had a special relationship with the truth Netanyahu has jumped in to Elon Musk's defence claiming that he has been "falsely smeared".

Netanyahu jumps to Musk’s defense over salute: ‘Falsely smeared’

https://www.politico.eu/article/benjamin-netanyahu-elon-musk-is-being-falsely-smeared-over-controversial-salute/

Musk supporting the AfD again ahead of the elections…

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/elon-musk-bei-afd-wahlkampfauftakt-in-halle-saale-zugeschaltet-a-b21db243-26ca-468e-8715-927c26a73178

So Netanyahu - leader of the only Jewish nation - is OK with the salute, and presumably the support for a German far right group.

That's not a good look.

(Yes, I know Netanyahu is also far right)

Nailed on Nazi now then? Needs to be banned from the UK.  Also congrats to led by donkeys for putting up that projection

Although when to stop holding companies/people responsible is always tricky. For example I cant really blame those ex pows who never forgave Japan and so always boycotted them.

My dad was a PoW after Singapore fell to the Japanese, he was in the RAF, ground crew, and was incarcerated in Changi. Look it up. He never talked about his experiences, but he never said anything about the Japanese that was defamatory, and I have a pair of Japanese made binoculars that were his.

I never saw him without a vest or tee shirt, because of the scars on his back. He died when I was 13, 57 years ago; there’s so much I could have learned from him when I was a lot older, had he lived,

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/prisoners-of-war-in-ww2/changi-pow-camp/

Musk not even trying to hide it anymore, his speech to the afD conference was jam-packed with far-right codes about Germans being proud of their 'culture' and the problems of racial 'dilution' due to multiculturalism.

The EU needs to take steps to remove his platform in Europe.

I'm assuming his shit stirring hate spawning comments must make his ability to get a visa to get into the UK or Europe a bit problematic..... ?

Might do, but it's not really an issue for him if he can't physically travel to such places...

So Netanyahu – leader of the only Jewish nation – is OK with the salute, and presumably the support for a German far right group.

Modern nazism isn't about hating Jews per se anymore.... It's about hating "others".

Original Nazism didn’t just use Jews as the only “other” to blame, be afraid of, and attack either. There were other targets used by them as well.

Getting more up to date… support for the Israeli hard right can come from very strange quarters, there are Christian religious fundamentalists that are antisemitic yet want Jews contained, somewhere away from them, ready for a religious event they believe is coming. Some non-Christian cults and conspiracy theory followers are obsessed with this idea as well, while also believing that Jews are trying to displace them in North America and Europe. Looking for logic in hatred and othering can be a pointless task.

I’m assuming his shit stirring hate spawning comments must make his ability to get a visa to get into the UK or Europe a bit problematic….. ?

Be pretty easy for him to dodge the need. Just buy an passport with "citizenship via investment".  Malta and Cyprus I think are the EU countries of choice.

He’s doesn’t tend to bother travelling to the EU; popping up on a big screen at a rally, or small screens in millions of hands, suits him just fine.

Don’t forget Porsche’s Tiger Tank model

Neatly pointed out by SNL last night.

Musk can't be a Nazi, they made the best cars (pic of cyvertruck)

Netanyahu jumps to Musk’s defense over salute: ‘Falsely smeared’

A character reference from Netanyahu is the cherry on top of the icing on the cake.

Does is anyone else now tempted to heil all the Tesla’s as they drive past?  I mean, if it’s okay to use a Nazi salute, then it must be highly appropriate to return the salute via their chosen proxy/vehicle, right?

I mean, just how quickly could we crater Tesla’s share price if this were to take off?

@Daffy

Yes,  it takes a lot of restraint now.

I very nearly lapsed and started shouting "Schnell, Schnell kartoffellkopf" at a bloke washing his tesla when I was out running

Does is anyone else now tempted to heil all the Tesla’s as they drive past? I mean, if it’s okay to use a Nazi salute, then it must be highly appropriate to return the salute via their chosen proxy/vehicle, right?

I like the idea, but as I'm in Germany I think I'll refrain..... Much like the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (high brow paper) refrained from showing Musk given the infamous salute as it would technically land them in a load of shit if they posted it.

Does is anyone else now tempted to heil all the Tesla’s as they drive past?

Yup. It was already hard not to shout/gesture with two fingers admiration of the muskrat without him providing a way of showing its for him rather than the actual driver.

Does is anyone else now tempted to heil all the Tesla’s as they drive past?

I had one driving right up my arse yesterday as I stuck to the 30mph limit. I was waiting to give him the salute if he went for a dodgy overtake.

Yes,  it takes a lot of restraint now.

I very nearly lapsed and started shouting “Schnell, Schnell kartoffellkopf” at a bloke washing his tesla when I was out running

TBH it’s childish,it’s not the owners fault that Musk did the salute and has gone full right winger, just sounds like you want to shout abuse at some one else just like those people who give cyclists a hard time, it’s not a good look.

anyone else now tempted to…

Not at all. Seeing Starlink going over? Maybe… there’s something very unnerving about the mark of someone like him being visible in the night sky.

People who buy Teslas clearly don't care, just as people who buy other products where the dubious owner/head is well known as a ****er. Not sure if that will change now he is even more of a ****er than he was a few years ago.

So Netanyahu – leader of the only Jewish nation – is OK with the salute, and presumably the support for a German far right group.

That’s not a good look.

To be Israeli has always meant pragmatism first, everything else second. In the 70s Israel cooperated with apartheid South Africa on nuclear research and intelligence, despite the then president of South Africa, John Vorster having been interned during WW2 for pro-Nazi sympathies.

Israel's first loyalty is to itself, even if that means collaborating with very unseemly characters.

Is this the right thread to post this today, on the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz?

Probably one of a number of threads it applies to but yeah, it belongs here.

even if that means collaborating with very unseemly characters.

That's true of all nations.

Look at the UK and USA during the 2nd World War.

To quote Churchill; “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”

I can think of quite a few scenarios where you'd get the shit kicked out of you for doing a Nazi salute long before you got the chance to explain you were doing it for the lolz and if it did happen then you bloody well deserve it.

Terrifying minority groups and emboldening right wing dickheads because they didn't get the "irony" is a really dim move.

People who buy Teslas clearly don’t care, just as people who buy other products where the dubious owner/head is well known as a *. Not sure if that will change now he is even more of a * than he was a few years ago.

I'm sure plenty of people bought his products before it was well known just how much of a fin du cloche he was.  I have several Dyson products and have drunk in Wetherspoons.  I've probably got a Neil Gaiman book somewhere (though in my defence it's likely to be Good Omens so it's obvs a Pratchett outing).

I’m sure plenty of people bought his products before it was well known just how much of a fin du cloche he was. I have several Dyson products and have drunk in Wetherspoons.

The key thing is when you stopped buying Dyson products or drinking in Wetherspoons.

Interesting thing about teslas is that unless the owner has a private plate on it,  you can identify how recently they bought it.

Interesting thing about teslas is that unless the owner has a private plate on it,  you can identify how recently they bought it.

Can you though?

You can tell when the original owner bought it.

I do feel a bit sorry for Tesla owners....or rather the ones who care about such stuff. Musk has had the makings of a grade 1 throbber for a good number of years but I'd struggle to put a date on when he crossed the line to be full on boycottable. Be interesting to see what happens to their resale price in the next 12 months.

New MY2025 teslas will be easily identifiable

I hadn't realised that Elon Musk had done a live link to a neo-nazi rally in Germany where he dismissed and trivialised any historical guilt they might feel. It's a surprising turn of events for a man whom Benjamin Netanyahu describes as a friend of Israel, although maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

What is definitely surprising though is that the leader (I will refrain from using the German term) of AfD is actually critical of Adolf Hitler. But what is most shocking of all is the reason why she is critical of Hitler.

According to the AfD candidate for German Chancellor Hitler wasn't right-wing enough, in fact she claims that he was a left-wing communist.

I kid you not :

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-afd-head-called-hitler-communist-he-was-not/a-71274756

Now I know many people, especially the American far-right, describe anyone to the left of Genghis khan has being communist, but claiming that Adolf Hitler was a communist is really something.

In fact I wonder what American neo-nazis think about their hero being a communist.