Electric car charging – is it supposed to be this difficult?

For those that have used EVs abroad, what’s charging like in France? We’re off to Nice next year and the rental car companies are offering EVs at much cheaper prices to ICE cars. It looks like I can charge with Allego with a card?

“Moral of the story – if you get an EV in the UK and there’s the slightest chance you may go to Scotland at some point – get the card anyway.”

Yes, this is exactly my situation, which is why the failure of the card (and app) and the failure of the company to even try to do anything about it is rather disappointing.

Using the CPS website via a smart phone we did manage to get some charge but even that was shonky. Had to use a emergency button on the charger to disconnect (didn’t know the car key unlock might have worked, thanks for whoever suggested that – the car’s own app didn’t do the job).

But as I said, in England, just tap the phone and you’re away. Mind you it’s more expensive too.

OP- I agree that CPS is largely poor, I had a fail trying to use it in St Andrews a few weeks ago. Locally the BP ones on the Queensway are fast, well priced and just need a credit or debit card apparently, though I haven’t used them.

We did a trip to Silverstone a few weeks ago, probably charged up as top ups 5 or 6 times overall, never in Scotland, and every experience was easy, simple and one touch with credit card.  I had been a little worried in advance as almost all our charging in a year of having an EV has been at home, but I needn’t have been, as easy as a petrol or diesel top up and no more time consuming as combined battery top ups with comfort breaks.

Again I’ll use my Mrs as an example of someone who can’t get her head around the difference between a micro USB and USB-C phone charging cable. She’d have a meltdown trying to charge an electric car if she read the instructions

My MiL once asked if she should get an EV for the sake of the environment.  She doesn’t do enough miles to warrant it, but on top of that, she cannot and will not even read a text message because it’s too complicated. Smartphones would be completely beyond the pale. There’s just no way she could manage an EV!

I can’t think of a single example of anything which is improved by having to do it on an app. At least for the user.

This in general +1

Why no one had a manifesto commitment to ban parking apps is a mystery.

I’ve zero issue with cashless parking,  but just make it a contactless card reader.

I bought some coffee online from a member of a different forums new business (it’s actually really nice which was a surprise) and at the end of the purchase it made me download an app! GET IN THE F*****G SEA! I’m not registering with yet another app to buy a kilo of coffee once in a blue moon.

Off topic but on the issue of parking apps; I like the fact that I can extend the length of time on my parking while sitting in the coffee shop. Beats the old days of popping out to put more money in the meter.

At the risk of being labelled a CPS evangelist they are often the only option available if you are going off the beaten track away from sizeable towns or the main trunk road network. There are CPS chargers in places where commercial operators wouldn’t dream of installing them as it wouldn’t be commercially viable.
Yes, it can be a bit shonky at times (again, usually due to the owners of the chargers, rather than CPS themselves) but my experience has been much more good than bad.

Off topic but on the issue of parking apps; I like the fact that I can extend the length of time on my parking while sitting in the coffee shop. Beats the old days of popping out to put more money in the meter.

+1

Parking Apps are ace IMO, folk who hate them probably never travelled & parked much nor had the constant issue of not having change.

For those that have one, Octopus electroverse card works on CPS network. So if you’re an electroverse user then you don’t need to bother paying for a CPS card.

At the risk of being labelled a CPS evangelist

Someone’s gotta be :-). As a practical matter, if you’re planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?

For those that have one, Octopus electroverse card works on CPS network

Excellent. You saved me 12 quid 🙂

Parking apps are ace

Not so ace when the car park is in an area with no phone signal (yes, Craster, I’m looking at you).

Took a wander back down to the bays there with the dog just to see if we had missed some obvious instructions. I’m guessing these are very old chargers based on the very basic LCD screen? I’ve seen the big fancy ones at petrol stations with big ipad type screens that I’m guessing are easy to use

The screen is telling us to touch a card, but no mention of what card it is and there’s nothing on the box that tells you that.

There is a sign on the box with a bunch of blurb that mentions 5 different organisations:

London & Scottish Property, Eureka Solutions, Energy Savings Trust, Charge Place Scotland, Charge and Go

No mention of an app, website address or a card that’s needed, just a phone number

Zero instructions on how to use the charging point at all

^^^ probs the EK mafia at work there Bob 🙂

Presumably the new station car park will have some easy to use new ones…whenever it gets finished…

Presumably the new station car park will have some easy to use new one

Loads of charging bays apparently!

As a practical matter, if you’re planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?

There’s always another charger somewhere. Always.

Zapmap or similar will tell you where. Never leave myself with insufficient charge to travel to a few alternatives.

I also always carry the granny charger and a 15m IP65 rated extension in the frunk so that I just need a 13amp socket. Never had to use it but there are an almost infinite supply of fuel sources if you’re not in a hurry.

Also, with a 300-ish mile range you’ll struggle to find anywhere in the UK that’s more than 150 miles from the main road network and commercial rapid charging.

It’s really never been an issue, never mind a problem.

No mention of an app, website address or a card that’s needed, just a phone number

Yet you didn’t call the number – who would have been able to advise!

My MiL once asked if she should get an EV for the sake of the environment.  She doesn’t do enough miles to warrant it, but on top of that, she cannot and will not even read a text message because it’s too complicated. Smartphones would be completely beyond the pale. There’s just no way she could manage an EV!

Yes she could.  It might take someone a little bit of time to show her / set her up, but you can use an EV without a smartphone, or even a text message.  My father is my benchmark for “ludite” (he doesn’t even like using an ATM) but I’m certain that I could show him once how you use my EV and he’d be fine – he might not be getting the best deal but he’d be able to charge it, and although he hates talking on the phone he’d be quite content that if there’s an issue there’s a phone number to call and a human being, in Scotland, answers the call and is familiar with all the common problems.  Apps open up a wider range of chargers but 4 years ago most of them didn’t exist and it was viable then.

As a practical matter, if you’re planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?

As a dinosaur burner, how do you cope with not being able to rely on every petrol station having the flavour of juice you want / open at the times you want?  In rural areas filling stations are not 24/7 and sometimes are out of a particular fuel.  It would be rare to be somewhere in scotland today where there was only a single charger and no (probably much slower) alternative somewhere you can get to.  In the worst case if you can get to somewhere to plug in a 3 pin plug you can add about 8-10 miles per hour of charge on a typical EV.  There is an initiative called co-charger which lets your rent out your home charger to other people – not sure its caught on much but seems the ideal solution.   Obviously you can contrive a situation where there is a powercut and the whole area is cut off just at the time you have no juice left yourself… but then your petrol station probably can’t pump fuel then either.

Like a lot of things in life it’s complex if you don’t know what to expect and aren’t prepared.  The only reason filling with diesel is so easy is because we’ve all done it lots of times before.

Buy a Tesla.

They use CCS , so do most new cars so it’s not at all like USB-C, micro etc etc.

All new cars use CCS in Europe.The situation in the USA is far worse than here and yes, it is pretty messed up. There, the manufacturers have tried to roll out their own networks or partner with other companies which may not work with other cars and, incredibly, there are multiple types of connectors.  Not only are there far fewer chargers than here, but lots of them don’t work with your car!

As for having a broken charger when you need fuel – just don’t run it down too low.  If you’re sensible then you’ll have enough charge to get somewhere else even in Scotland.  In defence of the Scottish govt they have done a good job of making sure this is the case.  Even if the chargers are old and slow, they are still there.  I suppose that due to the remoteness of large parts of the country the government is well used to taking an active role in ensuring infrastructure is there.  I wish the Welsh Govt had done the same thing.  Driving from South to North Wales on the A470 is a bit dicey – although in fairness you do have an alternative.

Not so ace when the car park is in an area with no phone signal

Last time I had this problem I discovered that the car park machine had its own public WiFi hotspot – worth a check.

Yet you didn’t call the number – who would have been able to advise!

But I don’t have to phone someone when I’m putting petrol or diesel in a car. Plus nothing actually said “call this number and we’ll tell you how it works”. Would the phones be answered at 7pm on a Sunday night? Nothing mentions a 24/7 phone service. What if you don’t have your phone on you, or no signal?

My promise of a 48h response from CPS was sent by them on Friday evening, so that’s 60h now without a peep.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. I signed up on 30th May (and ordered the card). As per my previous post, I had to chase them to send the card out, have subsequently responded to two separate emails from them after I reported the card was not working, and I am still waiting for an update.

The selling point of the CPS card is supposed to be reliable access where mobile data may not be available, but I’ve had more success with the CPS app; just downloaded it and charged the car without any problems. I think the problem is not the chargers, but CPS admin and customer service. My Electroverse card worked first time, with no issues.

But I don’t have to phone someone when I’m putting petrol or diesel in a car.

You also don’t have to phone them to put electricity in a car.  If you go to an unmanned petrol station (all ASDAs?) then I’m sure there’s some mechanism to call for help if you can’t work out the system / have never fueled a car before and have done zero research.

Plus nothing actually said “call this number and we’ll tell you how it works”. Would the phones be answered at 7pm on a Sunday night? Nothing mentions a 24/7 phone service

Yes it is manned 24/7 365.  You can easily confirm that by typing the 10 digits into your phone and pressing the green button!

The situation in the USA is far worse than here and yes, it is pretty messed up.

Not really, they’re pretty much standardised on NACS going forward, which is a neater solution than CCS but doesn’t accommodate the 3 phase AC that hardly anyone uses for car charging in the UK.

Also have nothing against electric cars (except when they sneak up on you when you’re on your bike) but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy. When electric cars/chargers get that fast and also sell chocolate (and become cheap enough that I can afford) then I will consider one 🙂

Despite being IT savvy I know I would lose the plot if I had any sort of issue at a charging station. Bad enough with the petrol station clerk hasn’t noticed you and activated the pump within 3 seconds!

In the worst case if you can get to somewhere to plug in a 3 pin plug you can add about 8-10 miles per hour of charge on a typical EV.

AAMOI have you ever done that? Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible? Only case I can imagine is that you rock up to Back O’Beyond planning to charge in the evening, discover that the CPS charger is broken, and you beg your hotel to let you charge overnight from a plug.

Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible?

Caravan site, Air BNB, Log cabin, rented accommodation , relatives house…anywhere that you’re staying overnight and your car is sitting parked for an extended period of time.
I’ve charged the car using the granny charger loads of times when I’m at my static caravan. Never had to use it in an emergency though.

edit: Except one time where an electric works van was run flat by an idiot who ignored all the warnings and I had to plug the granny charger into the V2L on my car  for an hour to put enough charge in the van to get it to a charger.

In defence of CPS customer service I had a good interaction when I used them. I was trying to get a card for when I visit my mum but they don’t send them abroad to me in Ireland and the online system wouldn’t accept my mums uk postal address as it differs from the billing address for me. Lady on the phone was very helpful getting everything set up and arranged for the card to go to my mums so it would be there when I got there. It arrived within a week. Not actually used it yet but next week will be the acid test……

anywhere that you’re staying overnight

Yes. That was essentially the case I described. A long way from just plugging in for a bit to get you on your journey.

For the record, I’m an EV owner and I love my car, but you (one) really have to adjust your thinking when driving with the charging network at present. You can’t just turn off down a side road and say “I wonder where this goes “.

You can’t just turn off down a side road and say “I wonder where this goes “.

Course you can…unless you’re also the type of person who’s ever walked to a petrol station to buy a plastic can to fill after you’ve run out in the middle of nowhere.

ICE cars can also be driven by idiots who lack forward planning skills.

Also have nothing against electric cars (except when they sneak up on you when you’re on your bike) but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy. When electric cars/chargers get that fast and also sell chocolate (and become cheap enough that I can afford) then I will consider one 🙂

On the other hand, it takes me less than 2 seconds to connect my car whenever I get home and each morning its fully charged.    I can’t go 700 miles without needing a pee and a coffee at least twice probably three times so that would be unnecessary.

AAMOI have you ever done that? Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible? Only case I can imagine is that you rock up to Back O’Beyond planning to charge in the evening, discover that the CPS charger is broken, and you beg your hotel to let you charge overnight from a plug.

In 4 years of EV ownership my wife has never found herself needing to use the granny cable, I don’t think she’s ever been below 15% charge.

In 2 years of EV ownership I have never found myself using the granny cable.  I’ve been in single digit % getting home but with the certainty of a home charger.  Its our backup plan for holiday cottages etc if the public charge is broken – but it never has been.

My wife’s cousin came up from down south without understanding CPS wouldn’t take his company “fuel” card and left it charging in his father in laws garage over night.  They could easily have used our home charger (or our CPS card).

A friend paid a campsite (he wasn’t using) to leave his car on a granny charger all day whilst he went hill walking.

As a general rule – I think the same sort of people that would help give you a lift to a petrol station if you ran out or in a rural area would syphon some from their own tank are the sort of people who would help you get plugged in.

RE 3 pin plug..Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible?

Yeah, loads!!

In Eftelling in the Netherlands I plugged the Polestar in (cable through the window of the acommodation) for the 70 minutes my car was allowed near the accomodation to pack up and leave. Added a few more miles with zero input from me after the initial ‘plug it in’!

When I had the Leaf, I plugged in to the Air BnB we stayed in in the new forest (again, through the window). Filled it to the brim overnight..again, zero input required from me once plugged in.

Would charge the Leaf at my in-laws via the 3pin for a few hours – topped it up enough to get me home again without stopping en route..

Have plugged the Leaf into a hotel’s patio-plug overnight (got their permission) – again to top it up enough to get home without needing a charger en route..

DrP

Yeah, loads!!

But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you’re running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they’re all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight. As I said, I’m a happy EV owner, but reduced range and uncertain charging facilities do have an impact.

the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy

Since when is refuelling time the main priority?  Does it really matter if you have to wait 20 mins? (Answer: no, it doesn’t)

Re the granny charger, I’ve used it at my parents (who are grandparents, hence the name) a few times, we also used it when we stayed at a caravan that one time.  We arrived with about 25%, but we knew we were staying on-site or only driving very locally for the next 4 days so it went on the granny and was fully charged when we left.

But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you’re running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they’re all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight.

Forgive me for being prepared!

In fairness, I’ve never had to urgently dash to a petrol station whilst running on fumes in an ICE car either..

I guess the point being that with a bit of planning, you can avoid most catastrophes.

Case in point – my OH refuses to plan anything, so is forever running out of juice (it turns out you can go at least 8 miles on ZERO charge in a Leaf), forever getting parking tickets and bus lane tickets, and is always in a late rush…

DrP

poly yep overnight charging works well and I would be able to do 99% of my driving that way

molgrips 20 minutes is a lot when you have little free time or are in a rush. Have the time and combine with a comfort stop then sure that’s fine

molgrips 20 minutes is a lot when you have little free time or are in a rush

Sure, but when you’re late enough anything can be a lot, and you can always be late enough to not make it.  Your day shouldn’t be planned around 4 minute fuel stops.  If it is then something has gone badly wrong.

There’s more at stake here than saving people a few minutes on their 4-5hr drives.

We frequently use hire cars at work for business trips and every so often someone gets given an EV which usually results in similar tales of how hard it is to use an EV. Add in that the car should be returned “full” and it’s then even an issue to charge back up at the end of the journey, just when people want to throw the keys back and go home after a long day(s) away.

Can anyone else confirm this? Is this a policy for all hire companies?

If so, that’s a hard “no” from me for ever renting an RV! I find it stressful enough returning a hire car with a full tank of petrol or diesel and having enough time to drop car off before my homeward flight! No way would I want to be stressing out about topping up an EV on a hard deadline…

We are away in Shropshire and today I used my first public charger off the Tesla Network. I got to the Sainsburys Smartchargers in Ludlow and selected my charger, got my contactless payment approved, plugged in and nothing.

Tried again. Nothing. So I changed charger and tried to get authorisation again and that was declined. Whipped my Electoverse card out and that didn’t work. In the end I used a credit card and got a successful charge, but it wasn’t the best introduction to non Tesla public charging.

Will be back again in a couple of days so I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed.

I’ve driven an Electric var the last 5 years, and put 100, 000 miles on one.  You get used to it real fast, and I cant ever imagine going back to an ICE car.

I do most of my changing at home that helps a lot, but I’ve got 4 apps on my phone to cover fast charging , and thats how it is.

But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you’re running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they’re all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight.

Because in reality running out of charge in the middle of nowhere doesn’t happen unexpectedly as often as people think!  The time it is probably most likely is if you are planning to arrive at your destination very low and then discover that the local charger is out of action.   In those situations a 3 pin plug at your accomodation will sort you out.  Presumably if you were just needing a 20 mile boost a restaurant or somewhere you were in a meeting could help you out of a crisis.  But those situations arise when you go to rural areas in an ICE car too.

So @dlr if 99% of your charging works on overnight then the 1% really won’t matter when you need to charge on the road – those will be 200 mile+ journeys so you should be taking a break for safety anyway.

@vlad – i’d assume that if you return empty that you pay for recharging at a premium just like you would with an ICE car – but compared to the fastest motorway chargers might not be that expensive.  It presumably can’t be 100% unless there’s a chargepoint on site.

 but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy.

Takes around 30 seconds to add 240 miles to my leccy car, as that’s how long it takes me to plug it in when I get home and unplug it the next morning fully replenished.

For times when I’m out on the road, more often than not, the car is ready before I am. And if not, I’m probably still up on time through not having to go to a petrol station every week.