Tesla showed you can make an impact, if not a profit in the car industry from scratch.

Tesla is now a more valuable company than BMW

For most automakers, building a new model involves looking back on years of experience developing engines, tweaking chassis and perfecting drivetrains — but what does it cost to develop an entirely new range of cars from scratch?

That’s a question we’ve all wondered for some time. According to Nissan/Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn, the answer is a lot.

$5.6 billion.

Dyson intends to spend £2 billion. On his first car. Without a bank of automotive experience to call on.

I admire his ambition.

Mefty – value versus profit. Discuss

Will Sinclair C5 ever be updated ..

I’d prefer a Hase trike

Or and a Tesla 100D 😉

Tesla is now a more valuable company than BMW

Are you sure about that?

BMW is worth about €48bn

Tesla is worth about $4.7bn despite being given an €8bn grant from the US Gov and has never made a penny in profit.

Tesla sold 84k cars last year, which is remarkable.

BMW sold 2.5m cars.

Tesla might be the future, but in the global car stakes they’re tiny at the moment. Mercedes own 10% of them, Toyota about the same.

Ultimately I think they’ll be the artictect of their own destruction, even with the 3 coming out and making them more mainstream, as soon as the VW, Toyota and Fords of the world turn their massive R&D machines towards EVs they’re in deep, deep trouble.

Dyson intends to spend £2 billion. On his first car. Without a bank of automotive experience to call on

They’ve got a bit of experience there 😉 Over the past year or so they’ve employed Aston Martin’s product development director & head of purchasing + Tesla’s head of communications, so it’s been obvious for a while really that a car was on it’s way.

Mainstream manufacturers will be trying to do what Tesla didn’t try – make a cheap EV.

Tesla market cap based on NASDAQ close USD 57.62 billion, BMW market cap USD 55.72, so just higher. Whether that valuation makes sense is another matter.

value versus profit

Both useful to know, but focus on cash generation.

Tesla invested huge amounts in keeping production in their home market despite cheaper manufacturing bases being available.

What a load of tosh. I’d be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us. He batteries come from all over the place but provided by Panasonic and the rest come from multiple car parts bins. The quality of tesla cars isn’t great.

As soon as the big boys get into EVs tesla will be swallowed up.

The big boys are being quiet until they’ve offloaded all the IC stuff then they’ll be teling us how much better electric is.

Upstarts have nothing to lose so theres an opportunity whilst the existing players are still in the old tech.
Dyson is just setting his stall out, chances are he has little to offer.

I think there is a market shake up due though, anyone fancy a Sony hatchback?

Peaks in the car market are March/April and August/September.
I imagine 2018 is going to be an interesting year.

wobbliscott – Member

Tesla invested huge amounts in keeping production in their home market despite cheaper manufacturing bases being available.

What a load of tosh. I’d be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us. He batteries come from all over the place but provided by Panasonic and the rest come from multiple car parts bins. The quality of tesla cars isn’t great.[/quote]
Proof?
Had an interview with them to work on factory design, based in San Fran, Battery factory in Reno
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Factory#Facilities

The Tesla Gigafactory 1 is an operational lithium-ion battery factory under construction, primarily for Tesla Inc., at the Tahoe Reno Industrial Center (TRIC) in Storey County (near the Community of Clark, Nevada, US).[3][4][5]

The factory started limited production of Powerwalls and Powerpacks in the first quarter of 2016[6][2] using battery cells produced elsewhere, and began mass production of cells in January 2017.[7] Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval estimated that Nevada would enjoy $100 billion in economic benefit over two decades from the construction and operation of this factory.[8] The grand opening event was held on July 29, 2016.[9]

Tesla began to refer to the SolarCity Gigafactory at Buffalo, New York, in February 2017, as Gigafactory 2. The Europe Gigafactory will be named either Gigafactory 3, 4, or 5 and the location will be announced in 2017.[10][11] Gigafactory 1, in Nevada, is aligned on true north, which was done so that the equipment can be mapped by GPS and solar panels on the roof can be accurately aligned. Also the factory has been designed to be entirely energy self-reliant. Tesla intends to power the structure through a combination of on site solar, wind and geo-thermal sources.[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1
https://www.tesla.com/blog/panasonic-and-tesla-sign-agreement-gigafactory
Very US based at the moment
They make the cars in the US – that is production in the US, components may not all come from the US but the Value add assembly does.

Doesn’t sound like the best place to work as it’s still very start up mentaility for it’s size.

Long term their plans were to roll out production to different markets based on the desings/plans/experience of the US factory model. They are planning huge expansion in the US at this point too.

Reminds me must get back in touch with them to see whats going on for 2018 visas.

IIRC When Tesla started up, Musk never intended to get seriously into the business of making cars. The (early) technology was open source I believe and he was hoping that the other manufacturers would take over.

It would certainly make a lot more sense to have one single interface and charging system for all elecric cars than competing standards…

As I was saying at the FPSA meeting on charging of and flexibility from EVs on Monday, Beanum.

Much of the existing charging infrastructure is probably going to prove to be a white elephant.

With the release of a Dyson, I can see the EV market picking up well 😆

Well if we must…

A car with different attachments for different surfaces?

Fingers crossed it comes off but it’s going to take some clever engineering to get the weight down with people’s expectations of what “quality” looks like these days. 1/2 a tonne of “soft touch plastic” in a shell that’s 50% bigger than it was 30 years ago is not where we should be.

I’m not sure I really like it for various reasons but I hope the Dyson takes some inspiration from the Riversimple Rasa as it’s got a lot of great things about it.

+1 on the “get Lotus to design it” front 😀

There’s speculation that Apple are working on a car too..

I think Uncle Steve probably was.

I’m not so sure that TC’s Apple are. I think they’ve cowarded out and are now, as said above, telling themselves they are a ‘software and electronics company’.

🙁

The apple car, perfect except you have the wrong kind of roads etc. Or made entirely with good old imperial parts 🙂

If dyson can make a decent battery & drive train then it’s a very useful platform for others to work with.

With the release of a Dyson, I can see the EV market picking up well

What if the market dosen’t pick up? Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust 😕

Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust

<chuckle>

Although, a C5 with today’s battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn’t it?

Maybe just a bit bigger and with a roof to stay dry. I’d rather have something like that than a Tesla.

Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust

😆

It will be ….

a car

So not really solving the problems of modern urban transport but adding to them.

Although, a C5 with today’s battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn’t it?

Maybe just a bit bigger and with a roof to stay dry.

What, like this?

It could have maybe a 60 mile range, do maybe 30mph or there could be a 50mph version, and it could maybe be made by Renault and be called a Twizy? And maybe make it available since 2012?

Although, a C5 with today’s battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn’t it?

Aye,it would be nice to see more development in electric assisted HPVs,like the Burrows Windcheetah or something like this

It could have maybe a 60 mile range, do maybe 30mph or there could be a 50mph version, and it could maybe be made by Renault and be called a Twizy? And maybe make it available since 2012?

Do you speak like that in real life?

Anyway, yeah, I was completely unaware of the Twizy! Probably because I stopped buying ‘Car’ Magazine when Steve Cropley stopped editing it. I’ve never seen one on the road, I think.

Performance doesn’t really seem as good as I would have expected, let’s see what Dyson can come up with.

whitestone – Member

It will be ….

a car

So not really solving the problems of modern urban transport but adding to them.

This

+1 on the “get Lotus to design it” front

Said Tesla a few years ago maybe?

Anyway, yeah, I was completely unaware of the Twizy! Probably because I stopped buying ‘Car’ Magazine when Steve Cropley stopped editing it. I’ve never seen one on the road, I think.

Actually I didn’t see one in a car mag, I saw one on the road in London, noticed it had a Renault badge and had to google it. Seen a few since. They look proper good and seem to cost about as much as a motorbike or not a whole lot more than a top-end e-bike. If I was forced into a car commute I’d be seriously interested.

I like the twizy, but then I like small engined (EV or Petrol) 2 seater city cars.
There must be someone out there that’s chipped one already..

Off to Google I go..

Boom!
(It’ll never make production)

The Twizy Renault Sport F1’s 97bhp power output is nearly six times bigger than the regular EV’s, thanks to the bolting on of the KERS system from Renault-powered F1 cars, including Sebastian Vettel’s Red Bull. It’s been adapted for the ever-so-subtly different Twizy, of course, but its performance gains are tremendous.

Early release shots,from Dyson (Taiwan) Inc.

What a load of tosh. I’d be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us.

The new Model 3 is 50% from the US and Canada, 25% from Mexico and the rest from elsewhere. This allows it to be sold without import taxes in NAFTA countries, so they have to release the information.

Will it have a Ludicrous button ??

A large proportion of the original Tesla roadster was made in the uk, so maybe production is possible in the uk?

T1000 – because it was a Lotus with batteries and an electric motor?

Didn’t it burn on Top Gear? I may have imagined that.

It got burned on TopGear but not in the way you meant I think.

There must be someone out there that’s chipped one already..

http://www.extreme-engineeringuk.com/

No not Top Gear then

Tesla says 40% of its Roadsters may catch fire

https://m.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/07/tesla_roadster_recall/

This concerning. Special putting fire out instructions.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/firstresponders