[Closed] Driving on single track roads.

Scotland and teh NC 500 is becoming too popular for its own good, sounds like.

It's not just Scotland and motorhomes. A lot of people are crap drivers and rarely venture on to those types of roads so they just don't know how to drive on them.

I am just back from a few days cycling on single track roads on Mull. Two incidents with cars not giving us enough room to pass. Both big shiny 4x4s who would not put a wheel onto the flat grass to let us past. Everyone else nice and polite and helpful but see a big shiny 4x4 - odds are they will not do this

i once had a 4x4 want me to back the tandem with trailer uphill to let him past when there was 4ft of flat verge he could have used

Needless to say I stood there until he moved over

I live on a single track road with the local rugby club at the end of it. There is little point in trying to leave at 9.45 on a Saturday morning, colts practice starts at 10am and the likelihood of being able to reverse is inversely proportional to the size of SUV.

Try living 9 miles out of town up a highland single track road like I do. I can rationalize the fact folk aren't experienced on single track roads, but when you've got me behind you as you trundle along at 20mph, and don't pull over to let me pass, it gets pretty frustrating.

I must admit I sometimes resort to flashing lights and a horn. While it is about the only way to communicate something approximating "please let me pass" I wonder how often it gets peoples hackles up, because even it doesn't work very well.

My base opinion is less tourists please, or maybe more specifically less vehicles. The local environment is really degraded by all the traffic and people in tourist season.

As said above, it's not just Scotland. There are quite a few single track roads around me in this part of Cheshire and the number of people who drive just past a passing spot and are then entirely unable to reverse back into it, nor can judge the width of their vehicles is staggering.

Although it's not a specific issue around here, the recent rapid increase in motorhome drivers that we've experienced whilst away who have no knowledge of how to drive anywhere other than a dual carriageway is also breathtaking.

My experience of the NC500 is actually the opposite. Done it on bike and in car, and if anything I found people were almost too eager to stop at passing places as if it was some kind of novelty. Had a couple of close passes on the bike, both from locals I suspect - single occupants with no visible luggage, driving old beaters. Back home people just charge through regardless. I do find it a shame that the NC500 is marketed as a driving route. It's a good way to ruin a location defined by its remoteness.

Most of my road riding here in deepest darkest Norfolk is mostly on singletrack roads where a fair few of the tractor drivers are in so much of a hurry that they can’t even slow down, let alone give way to a solitary cyclist. I’ve learned over the years and a few very near misses that the best strategy is to keep out of their way.
Until the law is changed and the responsibility lies with the driver then nothing is going to change.

Even decently wide lanes around here (Dales) seem to be a challenge to some visitors. The idea of putting their vehicle within a foot of a drystone wall causes mental disintegration.

i once had a 4×4 want me to back the tandem with trailer uphill to let him past when there was 4ft of flat verge he could have used

Needless to say I stood there until he moved over

these shiny 4x4 drivers are just sticklers for the rules

From the Highway Code

Always give way to the drivers coming uphill whenever it's possible. If needs be you should reverse until you reach a location where both vehicles have enough room to pass.

Completely agree about tractors. Modern farm machinary is massive and still capable of high speeds. It's a scary experience to have wheels taller than yourself passing at speed, leaving you only 12 inches of tarmac at the edge of the road.

all he had to do was move to the edge of the road / drop two wheels on the verge and neither of us needed to stop. Instead he just drove straight at me causing me to stop. No need for either of us to reverse

Modern farm machinary is massive and still capable of high speeds.

Especially when driven by a 16-year-old on his mobile.

the likelihood of being able to reverse is inversely proportional to the size of SUV.

That's familiar in North Devon as well

The latest super SUV's the worst

Maybe on the NC 500 (narrower bits) they need to put length/width restrictions?

I live in a part of the country with narrow lanes and little traffic. Unfortunately locals drive battered old cars/trucks/tractors so they don’t care if they come around a corner and have a bump

Had a couple of close passes on the bike, both from locals I suspect –

Sounds like they were

Are you used to riding on single track roads? I find the locals are used to judging the width really well and also used to going thru with very little sdpace - but always just enough

Hard to judge as i was not there but I would much rather see a local than a tourist coming towards me

I tend to ride in the centre until they show they are going to move over and then go thru the gap they leave - even if its a bit small

I do find it a shame that the NC500 is marketed as a driving route. It’s a good way to ruin a location defined by its remoteness.

This.

I live on a road parallel to the main road through town. There was major roadworks last month which caused many to ignore the signposted diversion and use our street as a rat-run instead. Directly outside my house there's a disabled bay (and a couple of cars parked behind it) which effectively reduces the street to single-track for the length of about three houses.

The amount of rampant bellendery I've watched from my office window has been incredible. There was nearly a fist-fight one day when a faux-by-four met a 7.5 tonner with a string of traffic behind it. The whole thing could've been resolved if the Chelsea Tractor had just reversed literally two car-lengths but no, far better to have a Who's The Biggest Gammon competition in the middle of the street.

People.

It's the inability to reverse to a passing place that gets me, the number of times I've been expected to reverse 100s of yards when the other is just past is mental. I've even had when I've cars behind me, makes it a lot easier to stand your ground when you can't actually reverse. Even had people hurling abuse in those situations, where did think I was going to go, straight up.

Actually it's the inability to even contemplate reversing which is nuts.

It's for situations like this that I carry a book in the glove box.

I have been known to turn the engine off, remove keys, sit back and fold my arms.

Are you used to riding on single track roads?

It's what I mostly ride on. One passed me doing about 60mph within inches, about 20 metres before the passing place I was about to pull into. The other wasn't even a single track road. It was the main road on the north coast, they just didn't bother moving over, despite no other traffic.

The tourists mostly always stopped at passing places even when there was more than enough room. I'd go so far to say it's some of the most considerate driving I've experienced in the UK, and a stark contrast to the stories I hear. Maybe if I were to do it again I'd have a completely different experience...

It’s the inability to reverse to a passing place that gets me, the number of times I’ve been expected to reverse 100s of yards when the other is just past is mental

Oh yes, this 100 times over.

Grew up in the countryside so used to judging gaps at speed etc mentioned above and the chaos that any tourist-friendly time causes. Was up at the Brecon Beacons Visitor Centre yesterday and coming back I saw a blue SUV (the Alfa one) heading towards me through a gap in the hedge so slowed down to use a gate entrance to make room. The SUV driver was properly moving and didn't even notice me as he was too busy looking at the view! If it hadn't been fitted with radar braking he'd have flattened my car as both him and his wife were completely stunned when the brakes jammed on and both of their heads whacked the dashboard. Their daughter in the back was crying from the sudden stop too so got out to check they were ok and none of them had any idea what had just happened. My sister was in her car just behind me and thought she was about to see a big accident. They went on their way after some advice about the roads being quiet but used by walkers, horse riders and cyclists so to calm it down and look at the road. Also had a motorhome create a massive queue behind it but do the courteous thing of pulling over, except they did it in a tiny place that didn't leave enough room for even the narrowest car to get by. Followed them for a bit at 20 mph until they turned down a lane that goes over a bridge with a width restriction they had no hope of getting through and nowhere to turn round. Wonder how long it took them to get back out as they were also towing their Citroen C1 behind too!

the likelihood of being able to reverse is inversely proportional to the size of SUV.

Been working a lot recently round the Cirencester, Calne and Swindon area where there's lots of 'posh' people in Range Rovers etc who like to play the Might is Right rule on the narrow roads, which is great until they are faced with me in an 18 tonne truck where their brain is visibly trying to figure out what to do next. Even had to reverse one old guy's Land Cruiser for him as he was essentially unable to without going up the bank and I had a queue of cars and a tractor behind me.

Working in the community one time we got stuck ( I was a passenger) with someone who could not reverse in front of us and we had half a dozen cars behind us. the driver of the car blocking us had 3 goes at reversing and simply could not do it. My boss told me to get in her car to reverse it for them. I refused - no insurance to do so and I was at work. Eventually my boss reversed it for them but i thought that ridiculous. I am not risking driving a car uninsured for anyone

but when you’ve got me behind you as you trundle along at 20mph, and don’t pull over to let me pass, it gets pretty frustrating.

20mph is plenty fast enough on a singletrack road

I must admit I sometimes resort to flashing lights and a horn. While it is about the only way to communicate something approximating “please let me pass” I wonder how often it gets peoples hackles up, because even it doesn’t work very well.

I would drive more slowly if someone did that to me

To give an alternative view, on a recent holiday to the Isle of Mull, I was struck by how considerate the driving was. This was whether I was in my car or on my bike.

Ransos - I agree. In 3 days we met 2 numpties

simondbarnes - that would be breaking the law and people get prosecuted for not pulling over to let people overtake

Plenty of single track roads where 50 mph is possible. Its all about how far you can see. On a 2 mile straight 50 mph is perfectly reasonable

20mph is plenty fast enough on a singletrack road

Depends entirely on the road.

I would drive more slowly if someone did that to me

Good, it'll make you easier to overtake.

people get prosecuted for not pulling over to let people overtake

Bollocks they do. More's the pity.

Simondbarnes has got his hat and box of tissues on the rear parcel shelf, and is getting some bites!

cougar - they do in Scotland - its not common but it happens

I live on Mull. It’s bad at the moment due to number of pensioners in hired motorhomes who don’t have a clue. The school bus and numerous people were held up for a fair while the other day when confronted by a tourist who refused to reverse. The bus driver took his book out and read whilst the queue built up either way and it took over an hour to clear. That said, some of the most inconsiderate driving and parking is from the locals. The Mull Rally is soon so no doubt the bell-ends in their Novas will think it’s WRC. I drive everywhere at 20-25mph and still catch up with people because I’m not having to brake for every bend. I also stop to let cyclists and walkers by - I think this should be a rule in the Highway Code on narrow roads. I’m glad we don’t have the same number of agricultural vehicles as when living in Moray - was behind a tractor when he smacked a truck coming the other way as neither wanted to yield - my grill got smashed by flying debris and fortunately didn’t smash my windscreen.

Grew up in the countryside so used to judging gaps at speed etc

Yeah me too but I don't like this attitude. There may physically be room for you to slot your car through a gap but it's intimidating and very unpleasant for someone to do this to you and it's not as safe as you think it is. Country lanes aren't the place for making quick progress. Yes they are slow and yes it is annoying but too bad.

Grew up in the countryside so used to judging gaps at speed etc mentioned above and the chaos that any tourist-friendly time causes.

Doesn't bother me (grew up driving in Devon lanes). Ironically the same drivers who won't come within three feet of a hedge in case they scratch their pimpmobile seem to know exactly how wide it is when it comes to squeezing past a cyclist in a totally inappropriate place at 60mph.

Motorhome drivers are the worst.

Interesting dovebiker - I get what you say about the locals being faster and leaving less room - but its IMO because they are used to the single track roads and I would much rather meet a local who gives me just enough space than a tourist who does not know how to drive those roads.

maybe I should be less trusting of them but while I have gone thru small gaps left by a local I have never felt unsafe.

Groups of motorhomes driving arse to tail and wondering why every passing place becomes a hassle.

Pet hate on single track roads and streets with lots of parked cars. People blindly following car I front not seeing if there is room for them on next hop

Yeah me too but I don’t like this attitude. There may physically be room for you to slot your car through a gap but it’s intimidating and very unpleasant for someone to do this to you and it’s not as safe as you think it is. Country lanes aren’t the place for making quick progress. Yes they are slow and yes it is annoying but too bad.

When I say 'at speed' I mean above walking pace rather then the creeping past tourists do. If the person coming the other way is obviously not used to or sure of their width I will slow right down or stop.

Regardless of how well you know the road, it doesn’t give you the ability to predict what’s around the next blind corner, particularly if it’s another ‘local’ with the same ESP skills - the dentist was killed here in a collision. Yes, you get to know the sight lines and where to look to see if anyone’s coming but it’s not 100%.

I don't speed, always slow enough to stop in the distance I can see easily. Anyone who grew up or lives in rural areas knows there can be a tonne of meat round any corner at any time or worse the spiky end of a tractor. Even at night.

What we're discussing here is not excessive speed, it's more awareness of your surroundings, the vehicle you're driving and common courtousy. The ones that cause issues are the ones who do speed, don't make mental notes of the passing places you've just passed, don't know the width of their own vehicles, don't pay attention to the road (looking at the view, thinking it's a race track) and cannot reverse to save their lives.

I used to live in Glen Coe, my neighbour pulled on to the verge to let a someone pass. Verge gave way under him and broke the back axle on his car. Since then I've been a lot more circumspect about pulling aside anywhere except at passing place.

A lot of people are crap drivers and rarely venture on to those types of roads so they just don’t know how to drive on them.

There are usually only 2 types of drivers on those roads. People who rarely drive on them and therefore have very little idea of how to do so safely and locals who drive it all the time and know (or think they know...) every ripple in the road and are used to belting along it at 50mph.

Faced with anything untoward - like a cyclist on the road - the first type will either try and push through regardless or be exaggeratedly careful. The second type will usually be apoplectic that something has slowed their normal thrash along "their" road.

Maybe on the NC 500 (narrower bits) they need to put length/width restrictions?

Hope none of the locals ever need a delivery, drive a minibus or similar.

I spent 5 years driving 17 seat minibus and trailers of canoes up and down a Highland single-track road, along with the truck company in the village. We never had an issue with our drivers, or indeed vast majority of locals.

I had one visitor in a Smart car tell me he couldn't reverse to the passing place (flat, straight, about 20m) and the real issue was my oversised minibus that was in appropriate for the country lane...just glad he didn't meet aforementioned farmer in his HGV...

I tend to ride in the centre until they show they are going to move over and then go thru the gap they leave – even if its a bit small

I adopt this with any other vehicle than a tractor and for most of the time it’s successful although a couple of weeks ago when I was met by a red Audi convertible. The driver commented that I must have some sort of death wish. I laughed at her and said that unless she slowed down her only other option was to leave the road or drive right over me. She drove away shaking her head.
I can only hope that if she ever meets another cyclist on a singletrack road she may drive with a bit of consideration.

Maybe on the NC 500 (narrower bits) they need to put length/width restrictions?

There is a sign at the turn off on the road over the beallach into Applecross, it says 'unsuitable for campervans, do not....etc etc'

Most sunny weekends it's blocked with a campervan at some point, when they reach the top sharp bend and can't get round they can't go back, so everything coming the other way has to adjust for them, sometimes also the wall and the side of the vehicle for the longer ones, but they keep coming.

This road sign?

^ that is the one.

To be fair, there's a second sign at that end and a completely un-stickered one at that other end. We still passed an overheating 6-wheel camper going up from Applecross.

I travelled to Mull and rode extensively across the island for the second time this year. Although some of the roads and scenery were great I'd really think twice about returning there for cycling as the roads were really not safe given the quality of driving witnessed. The vast majority of drivers are fine and respectful, and I always go out of my way to constantly check behind and pull in when on the bike into passing places even if it means waiting a bit. What ruined it is a few drivers of huge tourist SUV's who had no idea of the width of their vehicle driving straight at one at pace, not deviating speed or position an inch - probably because they're not actually that in control of their vehicle - and forcing one off the edge of the road. As often the side of the roads drop away to rocks/ rubble there was one instance of narrowly avoiding a big crash for me...but the SUV would have been fine so one can't expect them to GAS. The other observation though is that there were a few encounters with local delivery drivers and workmen in vans that were deliberately being ridiculously aggressive with other road users in car or on bike, presumably because they didn't want visitors there during a pandemic..to a level of intimidation I've not been subject to anywhere before. If these places want to milk the tourist dollar, then they'd do well to sort out the infrastructure and educate some driving standards. Came away thinking the place has the potential to be a cycling haven, much like Mallorca created by investing in the roads...but as it is it's not that great. Other idea that sprung to mind is to force drivers to leave their cars on the mainland and they could use a fleet of tiny electric vehicles only for the Island, that could transform it. Same goes for Skye.

I bet the drivers arse was twitching as he rolled into those barriers

Even experienced drivers get it wrong.

endoverend - totally not my experience riding on mull. Safest road riding I have ever done

2 numpties in suvs that were rude but not dangerous. Locals all courteous. Truck and bus drivers very professional.

The other observation though is that there were a few encounters with local delivery drivers and workmen in vans that were deliberately being ridiculously aggressive with other road users in car or on bike,

Never seen that happen. I have seen people who do not know how to drive / ride on single track roads getting upset because their perception of what is going on is so warped ie they cannot cope with what is perfectly normal and safe on single track roads