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I’m gonna get flamed for this by the normal ‘ you should have known dickhead ‘ folk and I probably shouldn’t post but.
Please everybody be aware that if sleeping in car at an event staying in your car, put the keys in the boot so they are nowhere near your person. Better still stay in tent.
Many years sleeping in cars after a night out at MTB events etc, Learnt the hard way.
No intention to drive whatsoever, but can easily get caught out.
Presume for drunk in charge? Harsh lesson, 12 or 18 months? No flames from me, only positive is you're gonna get fitter than ever before!
Yeah that's a hard lesson.
You're right don't have them on your person or to hand otherwise it shows an intention to drive.
No flames here, a lesson for all to heed. Hope the ban doesn't cause too much of a negative impact for you, a harsh but understandable punishment unfortunately.
Seems a little over zealous police work? There must have been others in cars kipping too? And assuming you're at an event you weren't blocked in by others? Just seems odd you were targeted in such a way? What was the police's cause for concern initially?
Was in the car sleeping and argued with the car park attendant. Police picked
me up a mile away but I had keys on me. I had no intention to drive.
Yeah everyone after the fact said over zealously. Every single copper I’ve seen since (and at the desk said they would have just sent me off to bed.
Was in the car sleeping and argued with the car park attendant. Police picked
me up a mile away but I had keys on me. I had no intention to drive.
I'm puzzled you were a mile away from your car?
Was in the car sleeping and argued with the car park attendant. Police picked
me up a mile away but I had keys on me. I had no intention to drive.
Not sure I understand? How did you get a mile away without driving?
Assuming you didn't drive that mile drunk then yeah that sucks for you. We've got a camper and used to have a few drinks before getting to bed, but very careful now not to just in case.
Parking attendant asked you to move car, so you moved it 1 mile a way whilst drunk and then the Police found you asleep?
Or you never drove the car anywhere and the Police just knocked on the window randomly because you were parked up asleep somewhere you shouldn’t have been?
Doesn’t make sense
Sounds very harsh. I've been at events before where stuff has been left in the car for security, including the beer, so have been in and out of the car regularly.
Or walking home after a night out. My house keys are on the same fob as the car, which I pass on the road and at times have even opened to get something out.
I've always assumed the attitude test would apply which may be what caused the problem (with the CP attendant) but am I wrong?
Were you just walking with the keys on your person or had you driven a mile and pulled up to have a kip?
This could be a tea and biscuits post. I know at festivals they get moody if you kip in your car, why I don't know? If you did move it then sorry sir you are bang to rights, if not the WTF!
As a camper van driver I’ve always been careful with this.
Luckily my current van has a safe under the bed where the keys go and I just keep the fob on me to lock and unlock the van.
Seems an odd description though of the OP situation. Did you drive drunk or just asleep in the car ?
Is it illegal for a drunk person to have car keys on them?
Is it illegal for a drunk person to have car keys on them?
No. I think there may be some parts of the story missing..
If you didnt move the car that is harsh. As you were at a mtb event as well so I guess sleeping in a car would be kind of expected.
I would seek advise from a lawyer as to me it wouldn’t be drink driving. I’m no expert though!
Probably still pissed. (-:
I can kind of understand it but it seems harsh to me. Guy I used to work with got done the same way years ago (or at least, that's what he claimed...) so it's not a new thing.
How did your car get a mile away? So police found you with the engine off and keys in pocket, but had strong reason to suspect that you'd just driven the car while over the limit? Can't say I'm unsympathetic to them doing you for Drunk in Charge if those are the circumstances, apologies if that's not the case.
mark d - are you ok? You're posting history suggests you are having a really tough time.
I get the feeling there's more going on here than your first post tells us.
Does feel like a more coherent and fulsome explanation is required.
mark d – are you ok? You’re posting history suggests you are having a really tough time.
I get the feeling there’s more going on here than your first post tells us.
Good point Matt well put.
OK, to wade in without full information in the traditional STW way... 😉
It could be interpreted that OP was going to sleep off a couple of drinks in their car in a carpark.
Carpark attendant tells OP he can't sleep in his car.
Discussion follows.
OP leaves car and sets off walking (complete with car keys).
Carpark attendant rings police with description, police pick up OP, complete with car keys, and asks him to blow into this please sir.
OP (in the eyes of the law) is drunk in charge, does seem more that somewhat harsh to me though.
Mark, have you been convicted and sentenced or are you just at the charged stage? Did you get legal representation. As presented in this thread you have a defence to the driving charge (which carries automatic disqualification) and possibly even defence to the lesser drunk in charge offence.
Just a quick hijack, but whats the law regarding a camper van or motorhome ? Say for example your parked up for the night on a site, get pissed and fall asleep. Would you still be committing an offence? Or parked up in Scotland on a wildcamp, still applies ?
For an offence of drunk in charge, there is a statutory defence if you can demonstrate that there was no prospect of you driving whilst still over the limit.
Just a quick hijack, but whats the law regarding a camper van or motorhome ? Say for example your parked up for the night on a site, get pissed and fall asleep. Would you still be committing an offence? Or parked up in Scotland on a wildcamp, still applies ?
Not sure about the law - but to give context tens of thousands of law abiding people do this every day without prosecution. I guess visible intent to stay would be a mitigating factor - kettle out, bed made, seats swivelled if that is a thing i.e. the vehicle is in 'camping mode'.
Wombat - those circumstances would not amount to drunk in charge IMO. Not even being in the vicinity of the vehicle, and walking away from it doesn't suggest intent to drive.
Even being in the vehicle you could try to defend it and demonstrate you had no intent to drive, depending on where the keys were. eg If you're lying on the back seat in a sleeping bag, and the keys are in the glovebox vs Drivers seat, keys in hand or in the ignition, bang to rights
It's certainly something camper van and car-kippers need to be mindful of, particularly if parked up on or adjacent to public roads.
A camper van on a campsite? Doesn't scream 'intent to drive' to me, and if it were charge-worthy, the coppers would have a field day at most sites most weekends.
whats the law regarding a camper van or motorhome ?
Decent summary here:
Link
Be VERY careful.
P.S. My brother got done for DIC years ago when sleeping in the back of his car (in a sleeping bag). If they want to get you, they will.
I agree Martin, however, parked at the side of a scottish highland road for the night and break out a bottle of red... wonder if that would land you in trouble.
One of my site agents got convicted of this couple of years ago. He went out and got pissed, couldnt get back to his digs, so slept in the back of the van, but left the engine on to "keep warm". Got convicted and banned.
We got trapped in a huge traffic jam on a one-track road in the Lakes, caused by a camper van that shouldn't have been there - one of the wide-bodied type. It was causing absolute chaos so my brother got out to suggest to the driver that he pulled over at the first opportunity to let all the traffic clear. He came back to say that the driver was an Australian, was as sloshed as a sloshed thing and the dashboard was full of empty beer cans. If anybody had had mobiles at that time and had called the Police, they'd have needed a motorbike or a helicopter to reach the place.
amongst some other offences....
also +1 to the are you OK..... but some things don't seem to make sense.
So OP was sleeping in his car and was told he couldn't by the CP attendant. Words are 'exchanged' and the OP moves on (let's assume w/o car - if it's in car then all's different)
CP attendant presumably phones the police and reports what? That a drunk was sleeping in his car but now has walked off.
The police catch up with OP a mile away with car keys but no car.
Not making sense bit......
- surely being a mile away from the car and walking away from it is a clear absence of intent to drive? And is holding the keys while a mile away still considered 'in charge of'
- would the police really scour the streets (at a mile radius by now) to pick up someone who isn't driving while drunk. They couldn't be arsed to turn up when a neighbours house was being burgled - priorities?
- how deep do they look into the story; maybe cross words were exchanged with the CP attendant but is that all it takes in the way of evidence? There's a bloke at work i don't like, I know he likes a drink at weekends, he also has a car, can i phone the police and say I saw him sat in it earlier even though he wasn't going anywhere and expect them to investigate that?
I can't imagine a lawyer would find it hard to pull on some threads here.....
Hmmmm......
I thought about it with my camper for about 30 seconds.
How ever as there's no access from the back to the front seats I'm happy enough to not think about it any further.
Putting the keys in the boot would make no difference in most cars these days. Should we take the batteries out?
Not sure how putting the keys in the boot helps...so you put the keys in the boot....have a nap for a bit then decide you might want to drive still under the influence, it's hardly a barrier to go and retrieve the keys out of the boot.
Basically they're saying you cannot be drunk in your car. Ever. Under any circumstances.
or near it. Or a mile and walking away from it.....
With camper vans, the advice I've seen is if the driver's chair is spun around to face into the van, then there's clearly no intention that you're going to drive any time soon. I agree about not keep keys on you and put them in the little safe we have. Hope Mark is alright.
I read it that he argued with the car park attendant and the police overheard him from some distance away, not an actual mile away, so never moved the car at all.
Shit luck dude, seems very harsh.
Or the car park attendant called the police to say he thought the OP was going to/had been driving?
I agree Martin, however, parked at the side of a scottish highland road for the night and break out a bottle of red… wonder if that would land you in trouble.
Certainly hope not, We do that frequently. Park up off the road / in lay-by / not in a passing place and settle down for the night. Our driver's seat doesn't rotate but that's where the dog bed & dog heads for when we are parked. Passenger seat rotated and camper van into evening mode - lights on, curtains drawn and podcast on the bluetooth speaker and share a bottle of red. Tend to keep the key in a wee holder / pot thing so not in either of our possession.
If the police were to come knocking and both I and my partner were in the van, both of whom are insured to drive the vehicle. Are they going to arrest us both? How would they decide who to arrest / who was in charge? Most probable thing to happen would I just offer the police a cuppa and talk about our weekend canoeing / hill walking / biking plans...
My understanding is you should not be in the drivers seat with the keys if you have had a drink. You can be in the drivers seat with no keys or in the passenger seat with the keys and still be OK.
I could well have been at risk if some of these cases apply. Been to no end of festivals with hundreds of cars and even bike races and had a few afternoon beers then gone back to charge a phone or even have a warm in the car/van. Will be very aware from now on.
Edit
In fact even when family camping on a campsite I've charged a phone before which needed a key on the ignition.
As ^ , this is everyone ever at some point at a camping bike race. (unless they are proper athletes and not drinking at any point over the weekend, but I don't know any of those... 🙂 )
OP - this seems very harsh. Can you prove your intent to sleep in the vehicle? Sleeping bag etc. Did your blood alcohol level equate to being under the limit at a reasonable time to drive the following morning? Ie all proof of your intent?