Forum menu
OP said 'police picked me up a mile away'
Or the car park attendant called the police to say he thought the OP was going to/had been driving?
and that's enough to get someone charged? I mean, I've heard of people phoning in saying that someone is or was about to drive while UI, but the police still need to catch them at or close to in the act surely.
(is it time for the apocryphal tale... where someone phones the police and informs on the man who is about to drink drive home from the pub. The police park up outside and watch a man stagger out, drop his keys three times, fall into his car, stall it twice, and then eventually weave off up the road where they follow him for a minute or two and then pull him over. Only to find he's sober as a judge, just a good actor. Meanwhile, back at the pub the car park has mysteriously emptied as everyone makes their way home in the other direction)
On the occasions I've done cheeky roadside sleeps in the campervan, I've always made sure that the keys are in one of the storage boxes that live a good way under the folded-out bed. I've no idea if this would be any real defence in law, but I figure it's about the best I can do to show I've no intention of driving.
Hope you're okay OP.
If the police were to come knocking and both I and my partner were in the van, both of whom are insured to drive the vehicle. Are they going to arrest us both? How would they decide who to arrest / who was in charge? Most probable thing to happen would I just offer the police a cuppa and talk about our weekend canoeing / hill walking / biking plans…
... and then all his clothes fell off.
Tend to keep the key in a wee holder / pot thing so not in either of our possession.
I hope you wash your hands before driving off.
Op needs to come back and clarify if he was in fact driving pissed so that we can all vilify him for doing so... or not. Seems to me that he was caught trying to nap after driving it away from the carpark after not being allowed to park there by the attendent and after drinking. Came on here seeking sympathy for a situation where he is in fact or might not be guilty. Right?
I’m going to assume op had an argument with the parking warden, was kipping in the front seat or just in the car, warden has got a strop on cos he won’t move and phones the police knowing what the end result will be. OP clears off on foot knowing he’s DIC, police go for the easy nail knowing he will be close. The little hitlers all have body cams now so evidence won’t be an issue.
Parking warden is a weapons grade **** .
Op needs to come back and clarify if he was in fact driving pissed
Seems to be the case from the original post that he wasn't - kind of exactly the point of his post was that he wasn't. I think its misconstruing of his later posts that is leading people to question whether he was.
Context is possible everything here. Camped out in some far flung field having had a nightcap (whist admiring a man in uniform who's come a knocking and coquettishly glancing at the array of car keys in a penis beaker full of wee) its hard to construe any intention other than to stay put. Suffuencetly rat-arsed and argumentative in an urban context and occupying a motor vehicle it could be argued that you are too drunk to know what your intentions are, or to abide by them.
Parking warden is a weapons grade **** .
the one you just made up? i think the facts are pretty thin on this thread...
Wow....that is the equivalent of jumping (off Beachy Head) to conclusions!
It sounds like quite bad luck for the OP to be honest.
It has actually got me thinking (if a little off-topic). I suffer from ocular migraines - and once I had an attack towards the end of bike ride I had driven to the Peaks for. I got back to the car, slung everything in the back ASAP and then got into the drivers seat, reclined it and had an extended kip until I was 100% sure I could see properly to drive. I have also had this happen to me at work and had to do the same thing.
Obviously it is illegal (and stupid) for me to risk driving when I can't see properly - but could I be in trouble as a result? Could an over-zealous police officer construe me as being in charge of the vehicle whilst in an unfit state to drive. Or is it only the actual driving when you are incapacitated by illness that is the problem whilst being 'in charge' of the vehicle is only a problem if you are under the influence?
Or you could ignore me for going off-topic - and I hope the OP is OK.
Obviously it is illegal (and stupid) for me to risk driving when I can’t see properly – but could I be in trouble as a result?
The key difference is that you're not drunk. You are in charge of the situation and in your sober state making sensible decisions about whether to drive or not. In that state you're judgement isn't impaired - your're not going to forget, or stop caring, or fail to recognise that you can't see and just drive off.
There are dicier scenarios - people going into diabetic coma don't necessarily notice that its happening for instance. But even then its an act of omission rather than commission.
Seems like sleeping in the car, attendant doesnt like that and the OP walks off without the car. Attendant calls police and he is charged.
If its the above challenge it.
Paring Attendant after the cash reward for dobbing in drink drivers? easisest £250 he's ever made if this still exists
2 actual events come to mind , 1 in reference to the above
Ex colleague was a habitual drink driver , he used to drive approx 500m to the pub , get hammered , drive home. His defence, its only 100m of public highway , the rest is a private road. Got dobbed in ,police watch him stagger to car and follow him home . He got banned but for refusing a breath test as he was on a private road.POlice disagreed and he got 12mth ban
His solicitor beleived he could have got him off if he had given a breath test as the police didnt see him for the entire duration of the event. . but that could be bs
Second one was simiar to the OP
Brothers house sharer was sleeping in his MR2 and had been drinking , he somehow managed to use his knee to turn on the sidelights so got caught . Went to court and he got away with it whether he had keys on him i do not recall.
Until OP returns and clarifies exactly what happened this might be considered by some to be a troll.
What did go on? Until we know that, we are all talking blind. And why won't OP reply to his thread.
As Talulah Bankhead used to say "There is less in this than meets the eye".
Never drove the car.
Sorry, only just got back as been working.
And have you been seen with girls of the night?
Mark. Hope you are ok.
If I've now understood this right, you hadn't driven the vehicle, but were sleeping in it at a festival, and then walked away after an argument? I think it's ridiculously harsh to then do you for DIC.
I know there are very few defences but this sounds like a malicious act by the parking attendant. I'd hope a decent solicitor would at the very least try and ensure you got the minimum sentence even if you are found guilty.
Seems like this situation is not what the law intended to catch
I agree with the above, it sounds ridiculous.
On the "in charge" thing. A colleagues son is diabetic and has been advised that if he ever has to administer insulin whilst driving then the keys should get chucked in the back until he is capable again.
Never drove the car.
Sorry, only just got back as been working.
That charge sounds highly suspect then. Clearly no intent to drive if you are a mile away on foot. Get some decent legal advice.
For clarification. My car was already in town after a we went out to dinner the night before.
I rode my bike to a pub and had too much to drink. I left my bike at pub because I had too much to drink. I went back to my car as had money in the dash so I could get a cab. Fell asleep in car. 1st Carpark attendant knocks on window, ‘you ok mate’? Yeah mate, is it ok if I leave this here again, how much? No probs mate, . 2nd carpark attendant with him says ‘have you been drinking ‘? I suppose I shouldn’t have said ‘ what the **** does it have to do with you? I’m not going anywhere, I’ve already said I’m leaving it here’.
I didn’t drive it to the venue and didn’t drive it after. I was just in the car and probably shouldn’t have argued with the attendant.
Police obviously followed me on CCTV on way to cab rank at the train station and I was picked up a mile away from the car that I hadn’t driven. As keys were on me they arrested me.
I’ve been on a drink driving awareness course and I think it is something that should be taught in schools. A lot of people on the course were caught the morning after a night out, or sleeping in their car etc. Was just passing on the word that hopefully other people may be more educated.
I have been on countless camping/ festivals etc and slept in car and not given it a second thought, now I will and hopefully I’m passing on a message to others to be careful.
Yes, I am ok, and so is my partner. Thankyou for asking.
I do use this as a sounding board as it’s better to write things down than to act upon thoughts.
Hope I’ve cleared a few questions up.
Regards
tough break
Definitely get advice. They are basing the charge on the say so of nobody in any particular authority. Who actually in hindsight didn't even see you driving. I'd definitely be if the mindset of "see you in court"!
My solicitors were very confused as to whether to plead guilty or not. In the end I just went with what they said. Police / solicitors/ judge even, said that they had to stick with letter of the law. He gave me the minimum ban he could possibly give and a very small fine. I was lucky.I’ve taken the lesson, I have served my ban and I thought I would reflect on it and hopefully shed some advice.
With everything going on it has been a very tough few years but hopefully on the way up now.
Sorry if I ramble, but this forum really is an outlet for me.
Some of the things I write I completely understand that I’m open to trolls and bullying but I don’t really care, it’s better to write things down and get it off my chest.
Oh right, it's all done and dusted? Bloody hell, that's harsher than harsh. Unless there is a new offence of drunk in charge of a set of car keys which I don't know about.
My sympathies Mark, you didn't need this on top of everything else.
If you haven't already been convicted definitely see a lawyer who specialises in motoring offences.
Technically you were drunk in charge, but according to the link above your actions should give you the defence "of not having any intention to drive". Good luck anyway, from you description of events it doesn't sound like you had any intention of DD so you shouldn't be convicted of it.
Edit.
Just seen the OP's last post 🙁
I’m open to trolls and bullying but I don’t really care
And ultimately those kind of people's opinions aren't worth the effort it takes to read them.
That seems awfully harsh, yes you were in the car asleep never drove it and then left it there. Seems incredible with that story they successfully prosecuted you. I can't stand drink drivers but that is pretty unbelievable.
Martin. One of the guys on the course was done for walking his motorcycle back from the pub. Have to put keys into ignition to unlock the steering.
Education is key.
One of the guys on the course was done for walking his motorcycle back from the pub. Have to put keys into ignition to unlock the steering.
Education is key.
He certainly left himself open to prosecution there !!! Why not just lock it and leave it at the pub.
Wow! That is pretty tough on all counts - from the bother of tracking you to be able to arrest you through to getting a ban for it. Do you mind me asking, what's the minimum ban you can get for DIC (I assume, as you never actually drove it?)
Harsh not least 'cos I assume you now have a record, insurance premiums, and so on.
Your experience has been a veritable learning experience for me. I just looked it up on line and it's a tough law, couple of things stood out....
1/ to be drunk in charge you have to be
- over the legal limit for alcohol (in the blood, urine or breath)
- and in charge of the vehicle;
- and the motor vehicle must be in a place to which the public has access.
I don't know what 'public has access' means - clearly covers public spaces including car parks but what about the grassy field at a 24 hr MTB race? Even my front drive..... I don't live behind a wall and gates?
and 2/
<h2>Are there defences available?</h2>
The law states that someone cannot be convicted of an “in charge” offence if they can prove there was no intention and / or likelihood of the vehicle being driven whilst the driver was over the prescribed limit.
Unlike many other offences, with the offence of being drunk in charge, the accused must prove that they did not have any intention to drive the vehicle. The prosecution is not required to prove that the accused was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit.
- so burden falls on you to prove you weren't going to drive rather than the other way round. Which if you're drunk, I'd assume they can say that judgement was impaired and you could make a bad choice irrespective of any previous or prior good conduct...that's a tough one to take too.
Even my front drive….. I don’t live behind a wall and gates
But the public don't have access to your drive (technically). Yes they can come onto your drive but they do not have the right of access over it.
A few years ago I read about a teacher in Wetherby (nr Leeds) who had gone to get school work out of his car for marking but because it was parked on a public road (right outside his house) he was convicted. I assume he wouldn't have been had it been on his drive?
the accused must prove that they did not have any intention to drive the vehicle. The prosecution is not required to prove that the accused was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit.
Walking a mile away from the car towards a cab rank could be deemed a pretty compelling argument.
The solicitor certainly sounds confused, to label it generously. But I can understand that with everything else going on, OP just wanted it over and done with.
And the police wonder why the public don't like them much and would rather point and laugh at them when they are getting beat up struggling to detain someone than come to their assistance.
But the public don’t have access to your drive (technically). Yes they can come onto your drive but they do not have the right of access over it.
So by that token, is a campsite (usual, or temporary for eg at a MTB event) a public place - given you are paying for permission to be there? I don't know the answer, just chucking out my head scratching?
Walking a mile away from the car towards a cab rank could be deemed a pretty compelling argument.
Devil's advocate.....with only a handful of loose change, and mortal drunk. I put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn't get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
Can you prove otherwise?
So by that token, is a campsite (usual, or temporary for eg at a MTB event) a public place – given you are paying for permission to be there? I don’t know the answer, just chucking out my head scratching?
I don't know for certain, but it's a public place just like a car park so I'd say you could technically be charged. Of course the same question could also be raised at camps sites up and down the country - drive your car / camper van there then get drunk but still have your car keys in your pocket... (although I guess with either of those scenarios it could be argued you had no intention to drive and you could prove so by having sleeping kit with you I guess).
put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn’t get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
I think your right. Another reason to download the uber app, you can get home no cash required.
Uber what ? I guess you assume that Uber is nation wide.....it's not.
Equally I'm.not going to drive my camper to a location and get an Uber home.
I've done the park up have a couple of glasses of wine in the back with my dinner all over the place. Im more worried about being vandalised or robbed than I am about being breathalysed and prosecuted tbh.
That sounds harsh so thanks for the heads up. Sometime what you imagine to be sensible isn't what the law considers to be ok. Often, I imagine, because the law is trying to catch someone before they start driving rather than waiting until they do. It requires a bit of interpretation and for some reason they went after you 🙁
I only recently learned that here is Belgium the drink driving limit for riding a bicycle is exactly the same as for a car (should have been obvious really) and that the penalties can be the same, ie. license suspended etc :(. Now if I'm drinking it is public transport. From time to time they stop absolutely everyone of an evening at a couple of places just to check , including bikes.
Nice to know in these times of austerity that the polis still have the resources to deal with this sort of maniac.
*listens to NWA*
Devil’s advocate…..with only a handful of loose change, and mortal drunk. I put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn’t get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
Apple Pay, cash at home for the driver or going via a cash point on the way to the rank.
If you are in your driveway and the gates are open it is a public place.
Same as a private carpark. Anywhere the public have access to is deemed a public place. Again, every day is a school day.
I was way over the limit so I was lumped into the same class as a drunk that swerves down a high street at 90 mph during a school run.
The law is an ass there.
I had to do a medical to get license back to prove I wasn’t an alcoholic, medical records from my doctor etc.
The officer that arrested me was very young and I have been told on several occasions ( including the Sergeant that booked me) that an older copper would have just sent me on my way with a bit of a talking to.
My point is, get educated.
@mark d
Sounds like a massively unlucky break and going on the motorcyclist thing you mentioned from a course, it sounds like you’re not the only one who has been caught out by policing that some might call over-zealous. In any case, you seem to have got this squared away in your own head so good on you.
You do realise, of course, that now you are more likely to be doing your traveling by bike, ‘comic’ irony dictates that you will be involved in an RTA with a pissed up parking attendant who is driving home from the monthly ‘top earners’ award dinner.........
Only joking, of course.
Uber what ? I guess you assume that Uber is nation wide…..it’s not.
As an uber driver I obviously know, just a lame plug for buisness, my fault for forgetting the wink emoji 🙄