Unite the union represents Church of England clergy, which I’m sure mefty in his role in the established church is aware of.

I was not actually, but then my role is completely insignificant, my late mother probably would have known who had a less insignificant role, but hardly significant.

Oh well I knew because of tribunal cases in the news involving Church of England clergy, and I have no role at all in your breakaway anti-papist heretic outfit!

I hear you brother, I am with the working man in the Anglo Catholic branch, none of this Tory party at prayer for me.

The Holy Father says “nice one bruv”.

So what next ?

I suspect they want their slice of the £350 million pound cake

So it’s all about money then ?

I thought so. Crafty feckers.

Can’t help thinking that it is a major mistake to reject the current offer.

As far as the public are concerned this dispute was over. They won’t welcome its return at a time when they are now focused on the consequences of brexit and I think they are likely to lose sympathy for the junior doctor’s argument pretty quickly, especially if further strike action is called.

I suspect they want their slice of the £350 million pound cake

Look, this has been explained, at no point did Vote Leave say they were going to give the NHS the 350 million that the EU takes every week:

#posttruth

I think they are likely yo lose sympathy for the junior doctors pretty quickly, especially if further strike action is called.

Personally I doubt it. Sure they might lose some sympathy, and people who have never had any sympathy for junior doctors are likely to come along and say “well they’ve lost my sympathy”, we’ve already had cases of that on this thread.

But on the whole I would say that the public trust junior doctors more than they trust politicians, and particularly in the case of the NHS, Tory politicians.

And why wouldn’t they ?

I can just see it getting spun as “Bloody greedy doctors. As if we don’t have enough to worry about now”.

I can just see it getting spun as “Bloody greedy doctors”

More like “bloody Corbyn”, I suspect.

BMA agrees deal, Doctors reject. Dogs breakfast.

BMA agrees deal, Doctors reject. Dogs breakfast.

Funny that, ’cause the Tory Heath Secretary Jeremy Hunt, and his biggest cheerleader the Daily Telegraph, were both claiming that the BMA were a bunch of militants who were forcing junior doctors to take strike action they didn’t want to take.

Junior doctors are being misled by the BMA

Quote :

Having rejected the Government’s fair offer, the BMA now uses its hard-working members to hold the nation to ransom [/b]

What’s that all about jambalaya ? Do you know ?

Don’t you respect a democratic vote, Jambas?

Leaving do last night for Jr doctor in our lab, probably the best medic PhD I’ve worked with, there’s no doubt his work will mean a big change in how bowel cancer and IBD are treated when the regulator comes to review the guidelines next year.

he flies to Australia on Sunday.

Can’t help thinking that it is a major mistake to reject the current offer.
As far as the public are concerned this dispute was over.

I completely agree with this analysis, also the BMA supported the offer, so now the government can spin it as greedy doctors with a hint of truth.

The other thing is the doctors have gambled as they don’t know what the new PM’s take will be, they might look for settlement again or could just impose.

Dragon one of the conditions of this contract was the BMA had to say they supported it.

So they supported it.

It’s no surprise really. The BMA spent months suggesting the differences between their demands and the government’s offer was massive, then agreed a deal which looks virtually identical to the one they had rejected weeks earlier.

Their members see only a marginal at best improvement from the position which had them on the picket line, so can be forgiven for still rejecting it.

Monumental cock-up from the BMA, who are now stuck in no-man’s land between Jeremy Hunt and a bunch of angry juniors.

Is / has Mr Chunt Kepped his job ?

….and he’s out

Who is replacing him though ?

😆

Might not be 🙁

I’d be surprised if they replaced him.

The whole JD fiasco is in full swing now and Hunt is the fall guy if it all collapses.

Doesn’t make much sense to drag another minister down with him.

(Note how careful Cameron was to stay clear of the whole thing even when it was all over the news).

Oddly BBC now saying he isn’t going 😕

Great shame she didn’t give health to Bojo. That would have finished him off and would have been fun to watch.

Bollocks. He’s staying.

Well the next set of strikes have been announced 1 week of walk out 8am to 5pm, mid September

The BMA Junior Docs negotiating team includes Aaron Borbora and Yannis Goursoyannis. Both spoke at the National Shop Stewards event 2 weeks ago where they reportedly pledged to work with the RMT and other unions advocating a new winter of discontent in public services and an effort to bring down the government. Presumably at that point Corbyn will become PM and we won’t have to worry about health service funding because the country will be completely broke.

Most of the Junior Docs simply don’t know who is fighting their corner or the blatant political agenda at play – despite the BMA constitution being a-political… They are trusting the BMA to act responsibly.

Whilst the Junior Docs have voiced their concerns the real agenda at play isn’t what many of them believe it to be – it’s shamelessly political. We know from the leak of messages reported in the Health Service Journal that there was always an intent to use ‘safety’ as a front to provoke the government into imposing the contract and thus creating the grounds for a ‘justified’ strike.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-26/whatsapp-leak-reveals-truth-of-doctors-pay-strategy-in-dispute/

is that the same negotiating team who recommended the settlement to the members that the members then rejected and then they did as the mebers asked?

Jesus these Trots in momentum are damn clever – or you are talking complete tory bollocks

the blatant political agenda at play

I think we can see it your posts are incredibly blatant

The Health Service Journal though also noted the messages showed no evidence of the Government’s consistent claims of a left-wing bias among the JDC, with a range of political views expressed within the group.

from your link that showed the shameless way they were being politically manipulated.
Jesus christ if you must misrepresent the facts FFS dont then cite an article that contradicts your point.

Sunday Times 21st August;

At an NSSN meeting in London last month, Yannis Gourtsoyannis, a member of the British Medical Association (BMA) junior doctors’ committee, spoke under a banner saying: “Link up all the strikes. Organise to take on the Tories. Get all the Tories out.”

Dr Gourtsoyannis said: “Building links between our unions is vital. Now is the time to ramp things up. We need to defend Corbyn and show the government the door.”

So not at all political then.

AT least you did not have the cheek to argue your cited article supported your argument even if you wish to plow on with your polemic

a range of political views expressed within the group.

Feel free to only focus on one and pretend its the actual view as you make your totally apolitical point 🙄

Another jr doctor leaving do at our place tomorrow, and another bright young doctor heading to Australia

Jeremy Hunt is doing a sterling job, pretty soon there will be no doctors left to go on strike

(J5mins, maybe you should actually speak to some jr docs, they are well aware that the NHS is in the grip of a staffing crisis and pushing for this 7 day cover and removing automatic progression for those doing research etc will only make it worse as more docs had to places where they can actually see their families)

the core issue is that the key professionals are well paid, mobile and in demand this enables them to demand employment conditions

as service demand isn’t going to decrease, and as demographic of the workforce means more go part time and pension reforms shorten careers we are essentially stuffed

as such I would just pay them lots more money and take them out of the pension tax regime,

there isn’t any other answer

and pay for it with a new tax add on to VAT

Of course it’s political- any suggestion on how an argument with the government can ever not be political? Especially when the dispute is entirely down to political posturing from the employer.

@just5 quite predictable – co-ordinated Union action to bring down a government. How very 1960’s how very Corbyn. To give the doctors the benefit of the doubt you’d hope Yannis is in the minority.

All very confusing, doctors agree, bma reject, bma accept, doctors reject. Collective bargaining chaos 😐

Time for an end to a single service provider and employer ? No right to strike for single service industries ?

In the end they will revert to bullying the poor thick and vulnerable. Showing up their inept defenders on the bear-baiting box for the public’s pleasure.

big n daft has nailed the problem at the other end of the career path.

Capricious and stupid reorganisations of services, negative rhetoric and workload are pushing Consultants to retire early, or work only for private providers.

In GP land where we have Pensions which are not final salary, and are the sum of our contributions, pensions tax changes to the annual and lifetime allowances are encouraging many to retire or go part-time earlier than they might.

Very poor whole system thinking…

You cannot run a service without the consent of the employees and we have a a number of large problems here
1. Its pretty easy for a doctor to leave the Uk and get work.
2. It takes along time to train them so drift is a real problem.
3. We spent a lot of money on them to train them.

I see no easy solution here as both sides are pretty entrenched in their views and not keen on a compromise

JY, they also now end up with huge personal student debt, have lower starting salaries in real terms than in my day, and from the first day they are working are also providing a necessary service as well as being trained… as after all, if they were just being trained, the service would run better wihtout them being there…

But I cannot see an easy solution either. 🙁

STP is going to make Jrs protests look like a kids party.