Difference between Saudi Arabia and ISIS? Absolutely nothing.

This has made me so angry. How is what’s happening here any different to what Jihadi John or whoever are doing. Religious ‘Police’ trying to suppress anyone who questions their methods or rules.

I don’t often get pissed off about stuff to get that cold anger but the injustice of this action by a state that the UK holds close to it for political reasons is so unacceptable, so patently unjust and designed to suppress any questioning of religious doctrine and state power.

And yet Cameron (and Labour before) are courting Saudi like they’re some sort of role model for the Middle East.

Well **** you Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/saudi-court-sentences-poet-to-death-for-renouncing-islam?CMP=edit_2221

A Palestinian poet and leading member of Saudi Arabia’s nascent contemporary art scene has been sentenced to death for renouncing Islam.

A Saudi court on Tuesday ordered the execution of Ashraf Fayadh, who has curated art shows in Jeddah and at the Venice Biennale. The poet, who said he did not have legal representation, was given 30 days to appeal against the ruling.
…
The religious police first detained Fayadh in August 2013 after receiving a complaint that he was cursing against Allah and the prophet Muhammad, insulting Saudi Arabia and distributing a book of his poems that promoted atheism. Fayadh said the complaint arose from a personal dispute with another artist during a discussion about contemporary art in a cafe in Abha.

He was released on bail after one day but the police arrested him again on 1 January 2014, confiscating his ID and detaining him at a police station until he was transferred to the local prison 27 days later. According to Fayadh’s friends, when the police failed to prove that his poetry was atheist propaganda, they began berating him for smoking and having long hair.

“They accused me [of] atheism and spreading some destructive thoughts into society,” said Fayadh. He added that the book, Instructions Within, published in 2008, was “just about me being [a] Palestinian refugee … about cultural and philosophical issues. But the religious extremists explained it as destructive ideas against God.”

In fairness, you can be Atheist in Saudi, it’s just not wise to shout about it. not quite the same as ISIS.

Still wouldn’t go there despite the money.

In all honesty, if you’re living in some kind of medieval theocracy, with a particular penchant for getting all beheady with non-believers, probably best not to advertise that you’ve renounced their pretend friend

he claims he hasn’t but did publish a film of them whipping someone?

STW takes victim blaming to a new level

I read a story which cited sources so it might be true.
There was a fire at a girl school (I think) and the girls were trying to flee but the religious police wouldn’t let them out due to being inappropriately dressed. They perished in the flames.
It does seem totally unbelievable but nothing surprises me any more.
If this is an urban Internet myth let me know as it would make me feel just a little better about humanity.
Edit.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/1387874/15-girls-die-as-zealots-drive-them-into-blaze.html

It’s more than that. Saudi Arabia and their promotion of Wahhabism/Salafism is directly responsible for the rise of Islamic extremism

But don’t worry yourself. It’s fine to keep selling them tens of billions of $worth of weapons and war machines.

Further reading around topic:

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/11/wahhabism-isis-how-saudi-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism

Also this brilliant film:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam-curtis-bitter-lake

It’s fine to keep selling them tens of billions of $worth of weapons and war machines.

And it was only a few weeks ago that I saw a quote from a senior UK minister or civil servant saying that the arms sales, military support etc are worth sending because in return Saudi Arabia give us information on planned terrorist attacks in the West.

Which sounds an awful lot like they’re saying “Don’t give us what we want and the planned attack that we know is coming will happen. Or just give us some more bombs, at mates rates, and we’ll give you some clues to save hundreds of civilians lives”. The threat of letting terrorist attacks happen as ‘revenge’ for not doing what they want puts them on a similar level to the terrorists themselves.

In fairness, you can be Atheist in Saudi as long as you dont practice it

FTFY

‘I think if ISIS were to review their foreign policy there would be significant opportunities for export growth there in sectors critical to the sustaniable growth we are currently experiencing in the UK economy, which would benefit hard working families’

-George Osborne

Difference between Saudi Arabia and ISIS?

To be fair though, they only behead people in their own country, whereas ISIS seem to be exporting their hobbies.

To be fair though, they only behead people in their own country, whereas ISIS seem to be exporting their hobbies.

Flying Ox knows the score…

Saudi Arabia and their promotion of Wahhabism/Salafism is directly responsible for the rise of Islamic extremism

Then of course there’s this guy and the Al-Yamamah deal:

More in this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/london-arms-fair

And yet Cameron (and Labour before) are courting Saudi like they’re some sort of role model for the Middle East.

Don’t just restrict criticism to the Government – loads of people go out there and kiss their arses because the money is so good. Anyone with a stake in luxury goods is the worst. Saw a documentary about Rolls Royce a while back – the lengths they go to in order to appeal to the Saudis is ridiculous.

Be interesting to see, given the incredible amount they spend, if it all comes crashing down once the oil dries up. Will be like a bin man who’s spent all his lottery money.

It’s just levels of extremism sometimes with Western co-operation sometimes not.

I had to go on a family trip to Abu Dahbi – would never have gone otherwise, and it’s quite clear that things are a bit more progressive there – in fact I can’t quite understand why ISIS don’t appear to have a problem with the UAE?

Can’t get my head around all the inconsistencies. Need to watch black lake again.

One way of looking at it is that some of these countries are just a few centuries behind ours and are medieval playing catch-up. We’re just not acclimatised to witnessing until very recently – this level barbarianism in the media.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/crime-and-punishment-islamic-state-vs-saudi-arabia-1588245666

And whilst we’re on the subject – the Mexico Drug Cartels were doing this stuff too – quite a bit before ISIS learned how to use cameras.

Isis don’t like the UAE (you may remember the UAE were bombing them). However the UAE doesn’t have any religiously significant sites, unlike Saudi Arabia which does and invites the “Crusaders” to surround them with their military bases (or whatever they’d say).

rone

I can’t quite understand why ISIS don’t appear to have a problem with the UAE?

Can’t get my head around all the inconsistencies. Need to watch black lake again.

I’m pretty sure they are both Sunni majority (SA and UAE).

But then why don’t ISIS target the UAE? Plenty of westerners there, and a watered down version of Islam too.

I think it’s probably a media thing; they are smart with the impact – I guess they know attacks on European soil make more powerful headlines.

I mean, can anyone remember the last time news reported ‘220 people dead’ from heart disease? – (every day.)

rone
But then why don’t ISIS target the UAE? Plenty of westerners there, and a watered down version of Islam too.

Because their long game is Iran and the Shia. Saudi Arabia can’t risk attacking their oil rich and militarily strong neighbours who practice the same branch of Islam as themselves (albeit not the ultra ortodox wahhabi version).

They can use ISIS as their proxy to gain territory, spread wahhabism, kill Shia, wage war against the west and Iran and so log as they don’t do anything overt and continue selling oil there’s really nothing anyone can or will do about it.

In fairness, you can be Atheist in Saudi, it’s just not wise to shout about it

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

The US just agreed to sell Saudi Arabia over $1bn worth of bombs and missiles, to replace what they’ve dropped on Yemen.

We flew our flags at half mast and payed fawning tributes when their king died – the country that created and funded worldwide Islamist extremism and regularly starves, tortures, mutilates and kills for the slightest of reasons.

But Jeremy Corbyn is a danger to national security because he associates with terrorists.

Because their long game is Iran and the Shia. Saudi Arabia can’t risk attacking their oil rich and militarily strong neighbours who practice the same branch of Islam as themselves (albeit not the ultra ortodox whabbi version.

Flipping that around then – why do the UAE (and Saudi) appear to welcome Western support/expertise etc?

But Jeremy Corbyn is a danger to national security because he associates with terrorists.

Wait. I thought it was because he didn’t bow low enough at the Cenotaph.

rone

Flipping that around then – why do the UAE (and Saudi) appear to welcome Western support/expertise etc?

I’d have to speculate that they are happy to accept western expertise, weapons and money (and eastern money too of course) so long as it contributes to their not inconsiderable prosperity and they keep their heads down.

It’s not much of a “welcome” as such, in one sense of the word. Given the demographic of STW I would not be at all surprised if there weren’t several people on here better placed to comment on working there, and the logic/politics therein.

To be fair though, they only behead people in their own country, whereas ISIS seem to be exporting their hobbies.

When it comes to killing foreigners, Saudi Arabians prefer to fly planes into tall buildings.

I heard it was because he doesn’t sign the national anthem loud enough…traitorous bastard.

There are some massive differences between Saudi and Isis. The first and most obvious one is that Saudi Arabia is a country which partakes in international institutions (e.g. UN, OPEC, GCC etc). This moderates the behaviour of the Saudis to an extent as the seek and value international respect and inclusion.

To ISIS, this makes the Saudis the worst kind of heretics as they interpret for example sending a rep to the to the UN as submitting to an authority other than God.

Saudi isn’t perfect, far from it but to even compare it to ISIS misunderstands the founding of the Saudi state and how they see themselves and the world. The biography of Ibn Saud is fascinating, he certainly got things done!

Lest we forget.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ali-mohammed-al-nimr-crucifixion-every-day-that-passes-sword-closer-his-neck-says-father-1526623

tomd – Member

There are some massive differences between Saudi and Isis. The first and most obvious one is that Saudi Arabia is a country which partakes in international institutions (e.g. UN, OPEC, GCC etc). This moderates the behaviour of the Saudis to an extent as the seek and value international respect and inclusion.

Saudi isn’t perfect, far from it but to even compare it to ISIS misunderstands the founding of the Saudi state and how they see themselves and the world. The biography of Ibn Saud is fascinating, he certainly got things done!

And yet SA and Qatar fund ISIS. They created it. I guess you could speculate that they created a monster which they have since lost control of, or you could speculate that if you wanted to create a percieved distance between you and your state sponsored terrorist army you get them to publicly denounce you.

to ISIS, this makes the Saudis the worst kind of heretics as they interpret for example sending a rep to the to the UN as submitting to an authority other than God.

Erm, I wouldn’t want to imagine how Isis thinks, but I imgaine this is a small infraction compared to how they view Shia states. Again, Wahhabism is the ideological driving force of ISIS and it’s the state religion of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, nowhere else.

Saudi isn’t perfect

Glad that’s cleared up then.

Wait. I thought it was because he didn’t bow low enough at the Cenotaph.

Surely it’s because he has a beard?

Evidently not…

That guy isn’t even wearing a poppy!!

Saw a documentary about Rolls Royce a while back – the lengths they go to in order to appeal to the Saudis is ridiculous.

I saw that too it was disgusting. Diamond encrusted panels that had to be absolutely perfect and were rejected time after time.

Can’t recommend reading Jason Burke enough if you are inserted in the history of political & radical Islam (Muslim brotherhood) etc. Al Qaeda the true story of radical Islam is a fantastic read.

I’d like the Saudis to annoy Putin then we’ll really see whats up.

Erm, I wouldn’t want to imagine how Isis thinks, but I imgaine this is a small infraction compared to how they view Shia states. Again, Wahhabism is the ideological driving force of ISIS and it’s the state religion of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, nowhere else.

You imagine wrong. The King of Saudi calls himself the “Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques”. You can imagine how well that goes down with the Caliph who is duty bound to smite the heretic custodian, or else he can’t call himself Caliph (his followers are actually duty bound to kill him). This stuff is all written down, ISIS are fundamentalists in the literal sense and quite predictable.

Several fundamental differences.
Saudi isn’t openly proclaiming terrorism. I m not saying its 100% disassociated from every Islamic organisation but it is not gunning down the citizens of a so called friendly nation.
Secondly Saudi is running by a recognised legitimate government and we, as outsiders, have no right, legal or moral to question it. If you don’t like it then don’t go there.
That old boy on the radio had the right idea. Serves me right he said for breaking the rules.
Residents of the country know the score.

Except if they upset the wrong person seemingly…

Well well, who woulda thunk it…

Saudi Arabia unashamedly championed in UK security review

Saudi money has promoted the messianic radical wahhabism that, an increasing number of commentators are pointing out, Isis has fed on. As one observed this week referring to the Arabic acronym for Isis: “Daesh has a mother: the invasion of Iraq. But it also has a father: Saudi Arabia and its religious-industrial complex”.

This is Britain’s “vital partner”. The Guardian reported last month how leaked diplomatic cables revealed that Britain conducted secret vote-trading deals with Saudi Arabia to ensure both states were elected to the UN human rights council (UNHRC).