Diagnose this! (Mondeo TD content)

For my sins I have a newish 2.0 TD Mondeo 160. I’ve noticed when accelerating enthusiastically from low revs (e.g booting it out of a roundabout, dry roads) the revs rise and fall like an auto box or as if the clutch is slipping. The amount of rise and fall diminishes over a period of a few seconds until the car ‘hooks up’ and at the same time it’s making stately if unspectacular progress. There are no warning lights or weird noises the only clue is the tacho needle. In all other respects the car seems to be working fine.

I’m guessing (hoping) it’s something to do with the engine management/turbo just wondered if anyone else’s Mondeo does this
Cheers

traction control

DMF or slipping clutch?

what revs exactly is it doing it? sounds like a slipping clutch. max torque is iro 2000rpm. Is your foot all the way off the pedal when it is doing it?

traction control

Hmmm could be but the light doesn’t come on (it works well enough on icy roads etc)

DMF or slipping clutch?

My first thought was the clutch but in all other respects it seems OK. Tell me more about the DMF is the action noticeable?

Revs are between 2 and 3k I’m accelerating steadily and watching the tacho needle dancing

apparantly max torque is a bit lower, and if it does it mainly in 3rd then its probably the clutch (torque truncated a bit in 1st and 2nd)

dmf broken = hideous noise.

I’ve got a 160 too and mine’s a bit hesitant off a closed throttle – it’s like the power delivery has been softened for a second or so. It had some engine management issues when new (2 years ago)and because it was one of the first cars with that engine,it took a while to sort. it would go into limp home mode, or just lose power. Love the car, though, it’s like a silent tidal wave that goes round corners, if that makes sense!

DMF – when cold and idling and clutch in is there a rumbling type banging/clattering/stuttering noise ?

apparantly max torque is a bit lower, and if it does it mainly in 3rd then its probably the clutch (torque truncated a bit in 1st and 2nd)

It is mainly in third I short-shift out of first and second at about 2k there doesn’t seem much point in chasing revs and then accelerate firmly in third.

You think it could be the clutch after 26k miles?

No funny noises under the bonnet just the usual taxi rattle from cold.

When I first got my used ‘140’ it would occasionally ‘surge’ when accelerating uphill at motorway speeds. It felt like the turbo boost was increasing and decreasing rather than holding a steady pressure.

I read somewhere that it could be something to do with the turbo vanes moving incorrectly.

Anyway, I gave the MAF, intake, EGR etc. etc. a good clean out and checked/tightened all intake pipe joints.

I do give it a bit of welly at times and drive long distances, which is apparently good for the DPF.

It’s been fine since.

There’s something to be said for an Italian Tune-Up.

it could be something to do with the turbo vanes moving incorrectly

I seriously doubt that.

If the revs go up and down but you’re not accelerating and decelerating, then the engine speed is not matching the road wheels speed, is it? So therefore, it has to be the clutch. Can’t be anything else.

Unless the tach itself is faultly, but you’d be able to tell by listening to the engine speed. Does the engine note match the tach?

I agree with molgrips.

Revs rising, speed staying the same = clutch.

Unless there plumes of tyre smoke coming off the front wheels?

My 140 Mondeo does this, the car feels sluggish in 1st when pulling away from the lights or a roundabout. I have also driven 1.8 TD and other 2.0 TD and they also do this I think it’s just an engine management feature to protect the clutch due to the torque. Vehicles form the VAG group have up rated clutches which is why the power delivery comes in right from the go and in the Mondeo you have to wait until you are in 3rd gear

My Mondeo did exactly what you describe.

Definitely clutch.

Does it do it in straight line?
You say when leaving roundabout, could it be an un-wieghted wheel spinning out?

Thanks for the replies fellas

Revs rising, speed staying the same = clutch

Its kind of hard to explain but it feels more like controlled wheelspin. The revs are rising and the car is accelerating but not in proportion to what I’m doing with my right foot. If I ease off just a touch it behaves itself bit if I continue to provoke it with the accelerator it modulates the rpm and accelerates at the same time. Like a dragster doing a burnout except its just a Mondeo 😕

Yep, that’s exactly what mine had. It’s the clutch.

Definitely clutch.

Has it got EBD , ESC and the like ? Could possibly be some sort of traction control braking one of the driven wheels . However , if the revs rise then settle back sounds like the clutch is slipping .
Unortunatly this will porbably mean a new dual mass flywheel so bend over and lube up.

I wouldn’t expect it to mean a new dmf, especially if the car is smooth and normal otherwise.

My Mondeo did that, it was the clutch. It was also a classic 1995 model though 🙂

Rev increasing and car not = clutch. Traction Control would hold the revs in place, spinning wheels are obvious, DMF gives nasty noises that make you want to leave the car alone. Find a steep hill if you really want to confirm it/finish it off

In a manual car, if the revs rise and speed doesn’t match (and the wheels are not spinning) it IS the clutch. No further questions needed. It’s the only thing that would possibly allow dissociation of the transmission and engine to allow that symptom to occur. If the needle is moving and the revs are not actually rising then it could be a whole heap of things, especially if associated with a drop of torque.

Sounds like the clutch. Avoid too much slipping as the extra heat will damage the DMF which may still be fine at this point.

Oh-kay thanksagain everyone it would seem as though this is not normal.

I’m kind of surprised its the clutch its only done 26k and Ive done 23k of them but anyway I’ll get it checked

Cheers have good evening

Doesn’t stop it being a fluid leak onto the clutch. Especially if it tends to stop doing it after a lot of start-stop driving.

I’m kind of surprised its the clutch its only done 26k and Ive done 23k of them

Shit happens, nothing is guaranteed. Engines can explode after 2 miles in theory. It’s just a question of likelihood, nothing’s guaranteed.

Congratulations, you are unlucky 🙂

I had similar experience with a mondeo and at first thought it was the clutch but turned out to be a split in the pipe between the turbo and egr. Engine was losing boost so felt sluggish in the rev range when the turbo would usually kick in. Revs
going up but without the usual kick in performance. Worth checking as much cheaper than a clutch.

If it is clutch, mine went in a 2.0 TDCI Focus at 40k then again at 60k. Never had a clutch go in any of our other cars before or since. Got rid as I couldn’t face a repeat of the the £700 combined clutch/DMF bill each time it happened.

I had similar experience with a mondeo and at first thought it was the clutch but turned out to be a split in the pipe between the turbo and egr. Engine was losing boost so felt sluggish in the rev range when the turbo would usually kick in. Revs
going up but without the usual kick in performance. Worth checking as much cheaper than a clutch.

Won’t be the hose if the revs are rising without the speed changing proportionately – it’s just not physically possible unless the clutch is slipping. What you’re describing is just a loss of torque.

I had similar experience with a mondeo and at first thought it was the clutch but turned out to be a split in the pipe between the turbo and egr. Engine was losing boost so felt sluggish in the rev range when the turbo would usually kick in. Revs
going up but without the usual kick in performance. Worth checking as much cheaper than a clutch.

Mine’s suffered from that too, this one sounds much more like the clutch though. The turbo, like you say, was more a sluggish effect (the revs DON’T surge). I’ve had the DMF shagged as well (high mileage estate…) and it’s not that or the OP would have mentioned the car sitting in neutral sounding like the Battle of Hastings was taking place under the bonnet. Clutches can go at any mileage. Had one go under 10K miles before. It’s the clutch. Deffo.

and it’s not that or the OP would have mentioned the car sitting in neutral sounding like the Battle of Hastings was taking place under the bonnet.

Spluttered into my coffee then, awesome.

Definately not the clutch, definately is the flywheel.

Sorry….

Definately not the clutch, definately is the flywheel.

Sorry….

And you work that out… how….? (Although technically a DMF failure will include clutch issues by the fact that they’re bolted together).

When my partner’s DMF started to breakup/die (no obvious noises), it affected the smoothness of the running & power, as the timing was affected by the out of balance DMF. So I’d disagree on a DMF diagnoses, due to our experience & find the clutch one more likely, but I’m no mechanic

steep hill. put it in second from stand still and accelerate slowly if your can,until the clutch has been released then give it some.You want the clutch to be working hard. Soon tell if it’s the clutch.

Haven’t really thought about this too much so may be wrong but –
I guess most of the momentum required for a car to get rolling is at lower revs in first and second gear and therefore the engine and thus clutch would be working hardest at this point, which I think is consistent with your information given.

Please do not blame me if there’s are fiberous burning smell and you cannot get the mondeo back home.