Not entirely sure of the vadility of this, as the report I saw was linked to the Daily Mail, but it appears that his recent twitter posts suggest that women pregnant with Down’s syndrome foetus’s should ‘abort them and try again’. Along with this, and his recent comments about ‘mild’ rape and paedophilia, have somewhat changed my opinion. I used to think he was a somewhat publicity seeking outspoken atheist. If these comments are indeed true, I would change my opinion to ‘despicable piece of shit’.

His follow up reasoning, according to The Independent article on this story, when he was asked ‘what about autism’, was that autistic people have much to contribute and even enhanced ability in some areas, while people with DS are not enhanced.

He was responding to this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119147/ireland-abortion-case-reveals-draconian-horror-catholic-law

Perhaps he looks at everything from a purely logical point of view, leaving out any of the emotions that are an integral part of humanity?

Its all there on twitter, in context I have no problem with what he said.

His argument was regarding the forced caesarian of a young suicidal rape victim by the Irish authorities and prevention of suffering.

I’ve read the twitter thread: here and have no issue with what he said.

The daily fail just likes to be angry and bitter, and succeeds in dragging people down to their level on times.

As already said, in context there is little to be offended about and –

Perhaps he looks at everything from a purely logical point of view, leaving out any of the emotions that are an integral part of humanity?

This, very much this.

Had a further google, and it’s not just being reported by the Mail. With regard to his previous comments about mild rape, etc, I understand the logical point he was trying to make, I just thought he chose to use a particularly poor example, though suspect he was fully aware of the response it would create. However, as the parent of a child with learning difficulties, I can’t think logically about his latest comments – despicable piece of shit it is then.

I am struggling a little to see how his comments about why a DS foetus should, in his opinion be aborted is a relevant response to what happened to the lady in Ireland? I had a read of the twitter AdamW linked to but I’m still not seeing the link.

He wasnt talking about learning disabilities in general just that on balance it may cause less suffering if a Downs fetus is aborted, he also hasnt given this as advice just his opinion. Its backed up by it being a very common choice where early diagnosis is available.
Not sure I agree but I find his position less objectionable than the irish governments.

Thegreatape… he was asked a what would you do type question about this scenario.

The link was a ‘whataboutery’ thrown in. He tweets that the Irish government is civilised apart from forcing a suicidal young rape victim to have a c-section and not an abortion.

The next comment is from a nutjob saying “Whatabout all the DS foetuses that are aborted?” as a way of saying that the actions of the Irish government are OK which throws the discussion to another track.

I used to think he was a somewhat publicity seeking outspoken atheist. If these comments are indeed true, I would change my opinion to ‘despicable piece of shit’.

This. Not to mention an utterly appalling public speaker.

ratherbeintobago, have you read the comments or do you think every poor public speaker is a dispicable shit?

Thegreatape… he was asked a what would you do type question about this scenario.

Sure, I get that. It was the relevance to the women in Ireland I wasn’t seeing, given that learning difficulties wasn’t an aspect in that situation.

It’s probably a bit like reading the first and last posts of certain threads on here, without reading any of the middle, and thinking 😕

which throws the discussion to another track.

Yes

No, he’s a despicable piece of shit and a crap public speaker.

So what was wrong with his comments tobago?

The date rape business was pretty ill-judged.

What was wrong with his comments? With regards to a woman being pregnant with a Down’s syndrome baby, he responded with ‘abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world’. So this, really, was what was wrong with his comments. 🙄

Why? Seemed a perfectly reasonable point to me.

Really?

Valuing some human life as better than some and humane to kill them is something I am not comfortable with

He wasnt talking about learning disabilities in general just that on balance it may cause less suffering if a Downs fetus is aborted

What makes you think people with DS suffer? IME they tend to be very happy individuals and are not suffering.
FWIW autism seems to lead to more “suffering” than DS if we are going down that route.
Does steven Hawkins suffer? Should he have been aborted?
What about Cerebral palsy?

IMHO it is a pretty unpalatable to be choosing who gets to be part of the Human race and deciding some people suffer.

Whilst i can intellectually see the point [ ish] you lack humanity if you are prepared to abort due to pre determined rules and no one can truly know whether they will suffer or what they will contribute.

Funny how everyone criticised the couple who left the baby

Barnsley you have already said its a bit to close to home for you so I wouldnt try to debate the issue with you. His comments are backed up by what the majority do when faced with the reality. You may have chosen differently and I respect that. I’m not here to defend Dawkins except to the uniformed who havent read what he said in context.

Actually, I chose to adopt a child with learning difficulties, so abortion was never a choice, and if my wife and I had been in that position, it would never have been considered as an option. I love my son, and though life can be difficult at times, I couldn’t imagine life without him. There’s a quote from someone, can’t recall who, that goes ‘I wouldn’t change you for the world, but I’d change the world for you’, which says it all for me. Dawkins is of course, entitled to his opinion, however unpalatable I may find it, but who is he to dictate to others what is immoral?

I used to think he was a somewhat publicity seeking outspoken atheist.

Agnostic.

LIKES BARNSLEY MITCH

You dont need my respect but you have earned it and some

Agnostic.

I didn’t think he had any doubt there was no God?

Junkyard, I’m in the process of ‘getting a room’ as I believe the youth say!

ratherbeintobago:

No, in “The God Delusion” he states, obviously, that you cannot prove a negative, therefore you cannot disprove any god or gods. He posits a scale of 1 to 7 where 1 = “I absolutely know there is a god” and 7 = “I absolutely know there isn’t a god”. He describes himself as a 6.9. On that scale I’d also rate 6.9.

An agnostic atheist. Someone who doesn’t know if any god exists but until proven lives as if they don’t.

An agnostic atheist. Someone who doesn’t know if any god exists but until proven lives as if they don’t.

I think you (and he) are splitting hairs there, and I’d certainly hesitate to describe him as an agnostic without qualification, as fourbanger did.

I have been known to volunteer at a local day care centre. I also have family members that are autistic.
Anybody who has a problem with down syndrome or autism should really have a long hard look at themselves.

iolo, dont think anyone including Dawkins has a problem with Downs. His point was I think that aborting a fetus at an early stage means no suffering. I’m not sure I agree.
Barnsley, well done I am grateful people like you are in the world.
As for me well when we had a son at an older age we were asked if we wanted to have the test done for downs ( the non invasive probability thing) we thought about it and what it implied and thankfully it came back low risk. No idea what we would have done had it come back as a significant risk.

No idea what we would have done had it come back as a significant risk.

I’m thankful to live in a country where that choice, terrible though it would have been, was yours and not the state’s.

I think you (and he) are splitting hairs there, and I’d certainly hesitate to describe him as an agnostic without qualification, as fourbanger did.

Not splitting hairs, striving for factual correctness. Something that the less agnostic seem to struggle with.

I’m thankful to live in a country where that choice, terrible though it would have been, was yours and not the state’s.

+1

That’s what this all boils down to really. Everyone will have their own thoughts and own opinions on this. However, their choice should not be influenced or dictated by the state.

I see no problem with his comments either. I wish he and other public science figures would start pushing for a global one child policy.

Quite a few of the kids at Josh’s school have downs. They’re **** ace! How can anyone see immorality there? I really can’t understand how anyone can defend this dickheads comments.

I defend them because he’s not saying what you think he’s saying. And he’s also saying that an *awful* lot of people actually terminate DS foetuses. Not on his say-so, but their own decision.

But this was initially started by some idiot intimating that raped suicidal girls should be forced to have babies.

EDIT: admittedly he doesn’t come across to well in twitterland, better in essays, but even if he said “Two plus two equals four!” he would be receive a tidal wave of hate because of his stand on religion.

How can anyone see immorality there? I really can’t understand how anyone can defend this dickheads comments.

You seem to be suggesting that he was critical of or insulting towards children with Down’s. Could you quote the bit that gave you that impression? I can’t find anything of that nature in his comments.

Cheers.

spin – as I previously stated, he twittered (in response to a question about what someone pregnant with a downs foetus should do) ‘abort it, it would be immoral to bring it into the world’. Now I may be being a little over sensitive, but that doesn’t sound overflowing with positivity to me. And Adam, I don’t dislike him because of his views on religion, I dislike him for what appears (to me at least) a viewpoint veering uncomfortably close to eugenics.

With regards to a woman being pregnant with a Down’s syndrome baby, he responded with ‘abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world’

He really said that? I’ve never had much time for Dawkins, as he seems to be a bit of a shoty self-publicist with very little original to say, but if he did, then he’s a ****.

My wife’s brother has Downs; he has by al acounts leda a very happy and fulfilling life, and at 54, has brought so much joy and happiness to all those who love him. Always has a smile,and always wants everyone around him to be happy. Maybe Dawkins should meet him. Andlearn something.