Today at the QECP Hargroves cycles cyclefest I finally test rode a couple of models of Cube Stereo 140, specifically the ‘Race’ model (2×11 SLX/XT, Fox 34 & float DPS) and the all singing, all dancing ‘TM’ model (GX Eagle, Fox 36 factory & DPX2 factory, factory transfer dropper). For anyone interested, here’s my thoughts* and comparison to the 2018 Canyon Spectral CF8.0 which I test rode a few weeks back at FoD, and to my own bike – a 2018 Vitus Escarpe VR.

*disclaimer – I’m not a shredder, I’ve returned to MTB’s from a 15 year hiatus and my fitness levels are still way off what I’d like them to be, however I am getting faster and faster with every week. Also, this is a long one, so get comfortable…

So, I test rode the Race model in XL size firstly, as they didn’t have any TM models in XL, the biggest size was large. It felt a fair bit lighter than my bike (which weighs 33lbs), so I’m guessing it was sub 30lbs – the spec sheet gives it at bang on 30lbs and I believe it. The spec is very similar to my bike in a few ways – SLX drivetrain with an XT mech (my bike has full SLX) although running 2×11 rather than 1×11. A quick note on 2×11; while it was nice to have that super low 24×42 gear, I really didn’t like having to constantly swap chainrings, into the 24t for a steep climb, then rolling down the other side you run out of gears on the cassette so then swap to the 34, but then you’re a too high gear on the cassette so have to downshift a couple of cogs on that too… 1×11/12 FTW. The ONLY time I’d ever go 2×11 is with Di2 and the syncroshift so it does all that thinking about what chainring you need to be in for you. GC eagle did its think, although I thought initially it was an X01 shifter as it felt 10x more solid than the SLX shifters on my bike/the Race model, the GX eagle shifter is just so much more solid and better feeling to use.

Anyway… to the rest of the spec – Deore brakes, like my bike, felt very similar – good but nothing to shout about. Suspension, good but again nothing amazing. Overall, just a good solid bike, but it didn’t leave me with a grin, didn’t get me excited. For £2500 I don’t think I’d buy one. Although it’s good value with the carbon frame.

After the ride on the Stereo 140 Race I did a lap of the Blue at QECP on my bike, I could feel the extra weight on the climbs and it felt a tiny bit longer and more stable at speed but less flickable than the Cube.

Out of interest, the geo vs the XL Cube and my XL Vitus are as follows – Cube/Vitus:

HA – 66.5/66

SA – 75.2/74.5

Reach – 478/495

CS – 425/435

BB Drop – -16/-20

Wheelbase 1217/1234

So the stats back up the riding feel; longer chainstays/reach/wheelbase and a lower BB, with a .5 degree slacker HA. Longer, lower, slacker!! 🙂 However this isn’t always good. Keep reading…

Then, the main event, the Cube Stereo 140 HPC TM 27.5 2018. And breath…

[url=https://flic.kr/p/271Sv3E]IMG_20180512_142401[/url] by Paul Sims, on Flickr

Excuse the gloves left on the seat and the non-lined up wheel logos, I’m ashamed.

The spec of this thing for £3500 is astonishing. Fox 36 factory LSC/HSC, Fox DPX2 factory, Fox factory transfer dropper, GX eagle, Code R brakes (200/180mm), RaceFace finishing kit and a set of Newmen 1600g 30mm wheels.

Now they didn’t have an XL model – I’m 6ft 3in and normally fall right in between L and XL, which I did on this bike, as I did on my Escarpe. I was expecting it to feel pretty short and a bit small, but nope – it obviously felt a little shorter than my bike and the XL stereo 140 but not massively so. It also felt a tiny bit heavier than the Race version, probably due to Fox 36’s vs 34’s and a DPX2 vs Float.

First impressions, other than not being as small as I thought it would feel, was just how gosh darned stiff it felt! Compared to my alloy Vitus it felt incredible precise, every movement was being directly input into the bike. The stiffness lets it climb very well, no complaints there. Apart from my fitness… Then I get to the new blue section at QECP, with it’s many, many berms and rollers, and Jesus H. Christ this thing is good!!!!!! 🙂 I don’t know whether it was a the slightly smaller size, the light wheels, the stiffness of the frame, or a combination of the overall package but this thing is telepathic when cornering. I then find myself carrying a little too much speed for a tight 180 degree berm and I know the brakes have a longer throw than I’m used to (even with the reach adjust fully out they still bite a bit too close to the bars for me, an easy fix on your own bike) but once they bite, do they bite! Super powerful and not at all grabby like XT’s, more power than I’d ever need – fantastic brakes! On this route there’s not many roots or gnar sections, but I did hit a few biggish roots which on my bike would have come back through the bars, that’s revelations for you. The 36 factory was as plush as a very very plush thing. Tiny roots and stutter bumps through to larger hits and drops, everything is absorbed brilliantly. I need these forks in my life… Almost forgot about the DPX2, but it did it’s thing below me with not a second thought given to it, matching the plushness of the 36’s up front, so that’s also a cracker. Incidentally, I love the noise Fox forks make when compressing, it’s hard to describe but most RS forks are silent whereas Fox forks give that audible feedback to let you know it’s got the situation under control ‘It’s OK mate, I got this root, don’t you worry. Oh and that drop? On me.Think nothing of it’.

Other spec/thoughts – the fox transfer post just got on with it, and I like the ‘clunk’ at the top of it’s travel to let you know it’s fully erect. The Newmen wheels aren’t a known brand over here but their hubs are CNC machined (like Hope hubs) in Germany and the rear freewheel sounds like a Hope, not sure how many engagement points it has but it sounded like a swarm of bees was chasing me. Oh and they’re 1600g. Did I mention that? You’d need to go to some mega expensive carbon wheels to get any lighter. Tyres were Schawlbe 2.35 fat alberts but it was dry and dusty so anything with a semi-decent tread would have been good. I reckon you could fit a 2.5WT Maxxis on the rear but it might be a bit of a squeeze, would need to look into the sizes. Up front there’s no issues as they’re boost forks and so there’s acres of space for 2.6 or bigger.

Overall – bloody brilliant. It was playful, confidence inspiring, I found myself going faaaar faster on the TM L model vs my bike or the Race XL version and it was eager to play, to pop off roots or rollers, very easy to bunny hop too. Stiff and mega-responsive yet plush and comfortable. Compared to the Spectral CF8.0 I rode, this is right up there and with the discounts you can get you’re looking at £2750 vs £3150 and the spec sheet on the Cube blows the Canyon away. Plus you get the shop support with Cube that you don’t get with Canyon.

At the moment – if it was my money it’d be going the way of the German bike. Oh, wait…

The Cube. Yes, definitely the Cube 🙂 It’s a good job I love gold bits on my bikes 🙂

I’m also now seriously considering a L TM 140 rather than an XL… again the size charts put me right on the line between them, but I’m not sure how much the sizing will have affected the riding characteristics; can anyone tell me how much of the feel of the bike would have been influenced by the below geo stats?:

L is first, then XL.

HA – 66.5 for both

SA – 75.2 for both

Reach – 478/458

CS – 425 for both

BB Drop – -16 for both

Wheelbase 1217/1189

I have a feeling the XL will just feel a little more stable at speed, but just as playful and poppy, the wheels I think had a big impact on this along with the stiffness of the frame. I’m happy to be proved wrong though! Interestingly looking at the XL and L versions in the Race models side by side, the XL has a decently longer stem so they seem to be making up for the not hugely long reach by fitting a longer stem, for those giants who are taller than me I presume. Fitting a shorter stem and a set of 800mm bars (they come with 780mm bars) would quicken the steering and lengthen the reach a little.

Also, more stats – the XL Cube when compared the the Canyon is nigh on identical apart from having a slightly lower BB and a longer wheelbase.

HA – 66.5/66

SA – 75.2/74.5

Reach – 478/482

CS – 425/430

BB Drop – -16/-22

Wheelbase 1217/1235

The canyon was an awesome bike, again very playful, light, direct, and the 2.6″ tyres provided masses of grip and rolled really well. The first thing I’d do on the Cube stereo 140 would be to fit a 2.5WT tye up front along with the biggest tyre I could get in the rear, probably a 2.5WT again.

Overall a great day, even the rain held off until right at the very end. The Canyon and Cube are the 2 bikes top of my list for my next bike in Autumn/Winter to upgrade my Vitus (it’s parts will probably end up on a hardcore hardtail, Bird Zero AM Boost or Orange P7 are looking most likely) with the Cube (or Canyon, maybe…) taking up FS duties.

Sounds like you had an fantastic day!

Lots of details, lots of useful information. Great!

Fierce competition between brands like Canyon and Cube is very good for us bikers!

Detail:

BB drop: one of my full suspension bikes has an pretty extreme BB drop of minus 25 mm. Turns this bike – together with other design details – into an pretty extreme bike. In an positive and negative sense. For technical, fast downhill runs: love it. Pedaling uphill, lots of rocks: the low BB adds a bit of stress…

Don’t have an Carbon bike. The Cube pricing for the new Carbon Stereos appears to be quite aggressive.

Have fun!

I did indeed, made a change from the mudfest that was the MBR demo day, and there was hardly any waiting for bikes – I walked up the the Cube stand and got the XL race version put aside for me while I dropped my own bike off at my car. Then I had to wait all of 5 minutes for the L TM version to come back.

I’m of the feeling that ‘long, low and slack’ just isn’t needed for the stuff I ride, not to an extreme anyway.

I’m surprised there’s not been any reviews of this bike, I reckon it would have give the Spectral a run for it’s money in the MBR bike of the year test.

That’s the neat issue with bikes … many, many different designs and not possible to come up with an easy formula what’s good and not so good.

Independent from the Canyon and Cube bikes you tested, independent from the ride quality: these “new” frames are so much more “engineered” compared with frames from 5 or 10 years ago. With these new frames you see the value of the engineering tools those companies have, the testing know how and the increased skill of the production companies in Asia. The frames are low weight and stiff and they last…!

Liked the “old” Hollowtech II threaded “Saint” BB. Guess all these “modern” and (carbon) bikes have pressfit now. Wasn’t too convinced about this design – but assembled an bike with BB92 pressfit (“Plus” bike) last winter and have it in use since. No issues so far. Assembly was extremely easy.

140 mm travel: good compromise as well.

My current bikes are 130mm/0mm, 130mm/130mm, 150mm/150mm.

Next bike might be a downhill hardtail with an long travel Durolux fork. But for “day to day” trail biking a low weight 140 mm full suspension bike just sounds right. My 150mm/150mm is more an “all mountain” bike – goes downhill “like on rails”. But already a bit too much travel for day to day trail biking.

Nice review. Had a cube 160 a couple of years ago which I loved but moved to a roadie due to lack of time. I fancy hitting some trail centres again and the canyon spectral cf8 is top of my list. Have you done a detailed review on that bike as it ticks a lot of boxes for me. Only reservation is I’m smack between a medium and large and can’t get a sit on one

Not a proper review but my thoughts were very similar – very playful and confidence inspiring, the biggest difference being the 2.6 tyres, in the very wet and muddy conditions I rode in they gave heaps of grip. If they made a spectral with fox factory equipment at around the same price as the cube I’d be making a very difficult decision. Unfortunately you have to go up to £4500 to get that level spec on the Spectral, although you do get those lovely XMC1200 DT Swiss carbon wheels. Here was my brief thoughts on the spectral:

The spectral. Awesome bike. 10/10.

I’ve not been mountain biking for about 15 years, only done a couple of rides on hire hardtails – I was getting a bit of air on the rollers on the blue section so that shows just how confidence inspiring and playful it was. Oh and it flew up the fire road climb at the end, loads of grip and really good rolling speed on those 2.6″ tyres.

The CF 8.0 is very good value for money though, and if you’re limited to around £2700 you won’t be disappointed!! 🙂

Hargroves actually had 15% off all new 2018 bikes at the demo day so that would make the price of the Cube £2975.

Resurrected this thread as the 2019 Cube models are on the website now (earlier each year!?!), it has the same frame (as I knew it would seeing as it was a brand new frame for 2018) with a few upgrades over the 2018 model…

2019 Grip 2 36 factory forks (not in orange, boo!) vs HSC/LSC 36 factory forks

Raceface Next R 35 (carbon?) bar vs alloy Chester RF bar

Raceface Turbine R stem – vs Affect R stem

SRAM X1 carbon crankset & DUB BB (not shown in the pictures) vs X1 alloy crankset (heavy!)

Magic Mary & Hans Dampf 2.35 vs Fat Albert 2.35 front and rear

Now, in my mind seeing as one of these WILL be my next bike, I’d decided on a few upgrades to save a little bit of weight, and to tailor to my liking – Syncros carbon bar, carbon crankset, Hope brakes and BB, and better tyres plus the usual grips/saddle. The 2019 model sorts all those things (apart from the individual bits like grips and saddle) and you get the new Grip 2 damper! Doing some man maths and with upgrading the bits I want on the 2018 model along with a grip 2 damper upgrade, after selling off some of the new (used) bits I reckon it’s actually £50 cheaper to buy the 2019 model and upgrade just the brakes, grips and saddle. That’s with the 2018 model discounted at 20% off plus a further 10% BC discount and with the 2019 model with 10% BC discount.

Man Maths victory!!! 🙂

BB drop: one of my full suspension bikes has an pretty extreme BB drop of minus 25 mm. Turns this bike – together with other design details – into an pretty extreme bike. In an positive and negative sense. For technical, fast downhill runs: love it. Pedaling uphill, lots of rocks: the low BB adds a bit of stress…

Surely a minus value BB drop measurement would mean the BB centre is higher than the rear axle making it very high rather than low ?

After 10 years of riding hard tails, I recently bought a Cube Stereo 140 ‘Race’ and I love it. I demo’ed it at Whinlatter and immediately felt at home on it. Just finished 7 days in the Alps on it- so much fun 🙂

Why would you be so keen to change out Codes that you thought were amazing for Hope Brakes?

The Cube sounds really good from your review, I’d be curious to have a go on something like that – although I’d almost never be able to justify spending over £3k on a bike!

still love my 2015 140TM

Just given it a revamp with a Lyrik fork and boost front wheel.

Why would you be so keen to change out Codes that you thought were amazing for Hope Brakes?

The Cube sounds really good from your review, I’d be curious to have a go on something like that – although I’d almost never be able to justify spending over £3k on a bike!

Primary reason would be that on every single set of SRAM brakes I’ve tried (guides and code, nothing higher than the R model), with the reach adjuster wound fully out I’ve never been able to get the lever bite point as far out as I like – I like my levers out a long way and for there to be little dead zone, I have a feeling I’d need to go with Shimano (not going to happen above deore, too grabby) or something with bite point adjustment. It may be that the 3/4 demo bikes I’ve tried with guides or codes weren’t set up well, but if I do have to change it’ll be to Hope rather than something like the Code RSC.

Ah I see, fair one. I find my mates SLX brakes go quite close to the bar, then grab too much. My guide r bite a dairvwaybout from the bar and with modulation. But the r models don’t have bite point adjustment – only the rsc. I guess you’d have to go for Hope v4’s to match the power of codes?

Out of interest why not upgrade the parts on the Vitus? Guessing the spec on the vR model whilst perfectly fine is ripe for upgrading. I’ve got a 2018 29er version that I built up a bit lighter than the complete bikes from frame only with a -2 degree angle set and it’s a weapon.

Yeah probably a V4 from and E4 rear, I also value reliable stuff and tbh hope kit is just awesome so not sure I really need an excuse to upgrade!

Out of interest why not upgrade the parts on the Vitus? Guessing the spec on the vR model whilst perfectly fine is ripe for upgrading. I’ve got a 2018 29er version that I built up a bit lighter than the complete bikes from frame only with a -2 degree angle set and it’s a weapon.

Good question – the frame on the Vitus is the weakest bit IMO, it’s not bad, it’s just not amazing, it would feel a bit wrong to start hanging some nice bits off a heavy, basic frame. As you say the spec is great and that’s what sold me on the Escarpe, but it’s not a light bike (mine weighs 15.2kg tubeless, with pedals) and although some of that is in the wheels (about 2.1k I’ve worked out) the rest of the kit isn’t particularly heavy, so a lot of the weight is in the frame. It’s also a tiny bit long for the type of riding I do so the cube is smidge shorter with shorter chainstays so is a hell of a lot more flickable which I prefer. A 64 degree HA 29er escarpe must fly downhill, mine does well in stock form!!!

My plan is to upgrade to the Cube at some point over winter, then strip the Vitus and sell the frame & shock and put the parts onto a nice hardtail frame, P7/Bird Zero/Kingdom Vendetta if the budget allows!!

I didn’t know weeksy had changed his username 😉

I always found Cube bikes to be the best spec for the cash, especially if you can get one in the sale. I bought my 2016 140 HPA SL with £750 off when the 2017 model came out (same spec, different colour frame).

I’ve never been able to get the lever bite point as far out as I like – I like my levers out a long way

What kind of riding did you do before your 15 year break? Keeping your levers so far from the bars is a great way to give you arm pump on the types of bikes you are testing, on the type of terrain they’re designed for. When i started riding mtb i was the same – keep the levers out of the bloody way! But my braking was erratic and arm pump was an real issue on longer descents. And i couldn’t really brake and hold on/control the bike properly at the same time for long. Then a couple of old hand riding buddies set my levers up close to the bars and it was a revelation. Keeping one finger covering the brakes at all times. You should at least give it a go – with whatever brakes you go for.

What kind of riding did you do before your 15 year break? Keeping your levers so far from the bars is a great way to give you arm pump on the types of bikes you are testing, on the type of terrain they’re designed for. When i started riding mtb i was the same – keep the levers out of the bloody way! But my braking was erratic and arm pump was an real issue on longer descents. And i couldn’t really brake and hold on/control the bike properly at the same time for long. Then a couple of old hand riding buddies set my levers up close to the bars and it was a revelation. Keeping one finger covering the brakes at all times. You should at least give it a go – with whatever brakes you go for.

I’ve been riding motorbikes on the road for a few years prior to getting back on an MTB, that’s where my lever preference comes from. I wouldn’t say my levers are set way far out, on my current Deore brakes they’re about mid way on the reach adjustment. Motorbike levers tend to be much longer, and you use 2 fingers to brake, if the levers on that are set too close you end up with the lever crushing your fingers when braking – again on my motorbike they’re not set way out, but on both bikes as little free stroke before biting is essential. I can see the benefits of having them bite close to the bar, but also the disadvantages, and I’ve done 50 odd thousand miles with my brake lever set that way! Also I’ve done those miles while covering the brake with 2 fingers, and I think a lot of arm pump issues come from having a death grip on the bars, again that’s a big no no on a motorbike.

Thinking about it, on the demo bikes it may have been that there was too much free travel which is why I couldn’t get them to bite as far out as I prefer, that may be different on my own bike as I’ll be able to set them up properly. Too much free stroke is a big no for me, I’ve had accidents on motorbikes due to brakes with too much play, you need to brake suddenly, go for a squeeze on the lever and there’s nothing there, now you need to brake even more so you panic a little and pull more, finally the brakes bite but they bite hard and because the suspension and tyre isn’t loaded up yet, it locks up and you end up sliding along the road…

if the levers on that are set too close you end up with the lever crushing your fingers when braking –

I’d suggest it’s more like your brakes are mounted too far outboard if you can crush fingers.  Fingers on a properly positioned lever are out of the way of the blade or are pulling it.

I don’t mean to be critical, but the issues you state you are having with MTB brakes seem more about technique and expertise than inherent issues with a brake system.  I am talking explicitly about MTB – not motorbike, I have no real knowledge of those…

Motorbike levers are completely different to MTB brake levers, they’re much longer, basically like old style 4 finger levers:

This is how fingers on a motorbike lever sit when braking:

So, no – it’s not just a case of moving levers inboard. Brakes on a motorbike are set up with very little free play, and set at the correct reach to allow the lever not to come back so far that’s it’s touching your hand. My brain has been used to braking like this for 4-5 years and 50k miles. No biker I know of would choose to have loads of free lever play before the bite point. Oh and motorbike braking systems are just a larger version of mountain bike brakes, they are in every way identical, just scaled up/down. Lever, master cylinder, caliper, pistons, brake pads, brake discs, all the same just scaled down for MTB’s.

So, it would make sense for me to have my MTB brakes set up in the same way as my brain is so used to a certain brake feel I’m not going to change it just because it’s a on an MTB. So, my personal preference is for levers at a medium-long reach, and (crucially) with a very small amount of free play.

Every single SRAM Guide or Code brake system I’ve used has had a massive amount of lever movement before biting, the worst ones had the lever adjusted fully out (which was actually at about the same reach as on my current Deore brakes, but my brakes are barely more than halfway adjusted out) and still came back to within a cm or 2 from the bar.

So basically, from my experience, Guide R and Code R brakes a) don’t seem to have enough reach adjustment (see above, having to run them fully adjusted out to get the a comfortable reach) and b) have way more free play than I prefer. Brake set up is ALL personal preference, but if you can’t get brakes to be set up how you like them, well – that’s not great, is it? Given that brakes are the only thing stopping you from flying over that 100ft drop on the edge of the trail… I did say in my OP that the brakes pulled to close to the bar for my liking, even with the levers adjusted all the way out.

TLDR: it’s all personal preference, and from my experience I’ve never been able to get Guide or Code brakes set to my personal preference, hence why I’m expecting to have to change them.

Sorry, I meant I was referring to MTB braking lever set up and braking – not your motorbike.  As I said, I wouldn’t have the first idea about moto brakes!  How you best set those – is far more in your realm than mine.

However, as MTB levers are shorter as you say, you can have the lever positioned perfectly to allow two-finger braking as per your picture.

The free-stroke thing, that’s your preference – I can’t comment on that – except to echo that arm pump from braking is worse when fingers are further from the bar.  For this reason though, I do think that trying to persevere with a closer lever could be worth while.  If you set up the levers close to the bar as well, you can play with free stroke and bite point – especially if you experiment a little with fluid levels.

For me, I think you should build your bike up as you want.  It’s going to be a lovely thing to ride and when you are spending that much – getting it perfect for you is the main thing.

I totally wasn’t tying to be a critic – hopefully it didn’t come across that way.

Enjoy the bike when you get it!

J

No worries – as I said it’s all personal preference, I’ve just become so used to brakes having a certain ‘feel’ and trusting that they will bite where my brain is expecting them to, that changing this probably wouldn’t end well! I’ve not had any issues with arm pump but then haven’t ridden anything long enough to give me arm pump, though, so that may change! if I do start getting it I can always try changing the lever position.

Another thing with Hope brakes is the masses of adjustment they have, both in reach and bite point – if I then want to run them closer but have an immediate bite point they’ll let me do that.

Pictures when it’s all sorted…?

Paul, i wasn’t being critical either just offering a bit of friendly advice 😀

I rode motorbikes for 12 years before returning to pedal power (having rode BMX for 20 odd years before the motorbike). If you ride your MTB like a motorbike you’ll need to adjust how you ride on two wheels to get the most from it. From how you weight the bike when turning (counter steering still applies but with less horizontal force and with more weight over the front), your body position when cornering as leaning with the bike is bad on an MTB (generally) and if you’re tall this is even more important (i’m 6’5″) as hitting trees with your head/shoulders isn’t as fun as it sounds 😀  How and when you brake is also very different.

I don’t often say this but maybe a trip see Jedi will help with some of the issues you will encounter (or just go out and experiment)

I know you didn’t start this thread for this sort of advice so feel free to ignore. Good luck with the new bike

very informative review thank you
2018 at 2800 in sale looked a lot of kit for the money .
unfortunate that my size was out of stock ,however i was to get the 2019 model at a very nice price. in my opinion 2019 model improved spec points are ,better tyres,carbon bars ans cranks
such a good bike ans spec at a nice price so my mate ended up dropping 2995 on a 2019 too