[Closed] critical mass

perhaps you misread it and it actually said "Bristol city center reaches critical mess on the last friday of every month"? 😆

When does the arguing start about who Critical Mass serves best; cyclists or people who hate cyclists? I'll be out around then.

So who does critial mass actually help?

They had one ride around Southampton that I went on to see what the fuss was about. We rode around slowly trying to piss off the traffic. Seemed stupid to me so didn;t bother going again.

We rode around slowly trying to piss off the traffic

But dont you know the GOOD that will do? 😉

I can think of no better way to endear cyclists to the general public than making them late home from work on a Friday evening. It advances our cause no end, I'm sure

I'd also like to thank Critical Mass for giving the impression that most cyclists have serious personal hygiene issues and are, in fact, a bunch of brainless crusty morons. Well done!

Quislings.

😉

Critical Mass in its original form made a lot of sense. The idea is that once a critical mass of trips are made by bike, it becomes a normal everyday occurance to see bikes and the roads get safer as more and more people realise it's the best way to get around town. This could be simulated by artificially gathering together a group of riders at a set place and time to ride a shared route.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into something else.

I think it would be interesting to start up some kind of "cycling bus", where everyone who cycles from one area of town to another at a similar time could join up and ride as a group.

None of these ideas help though. Forming a critical mass doesnt make it an everyday occurance, because you're simulating it, once a month, and cheesing people off, not doing it daily and removing the traffic from the equation as would be needed. All it ever did was get in the way for the purposes of getting in the way. And the cycling bus is also pointless, you might as well just GET a bus and cause less aggrivation.

And the cycling bus is also pointless, you might as well just GET a bus and cause less aggrivation.

Why would there be aggravation if a dozen cyclists all rode along a road following the rules of the road?

It could be a good way for less experienced cyclists to commute by bike once a week.

Why would there be aggravation if a dozen cyclists all rode along a road following the rules of the road?

It could be a good way for less experienced cyclists to commute by bike once a week.

Because a long stream of cyclists is very hard to pass (harder than one at a time, especially in a city) in a car, so that would cause annoyance with drivers. At most you could only ride 2 abreast if there was no traffic (the law states, IIRC, you can ride 2 abreast IF the general traffic permits it), so it'd be a long snake of bikes, each chosing their own distance from the kerb, each going to different places and joining at different places. Who wants to ride in a line, its hardly a sociable event. It just wouldnt happen, like trying to herd ants, so it'd turn into a string of cyclists being beeped at and narrowly avoided by the cars they've annoyed. At least CM has sufficient mass to physically prevent cars passing.

Ever been on a group ride through a town? I have several times and it was always fine.

With a 'cycling bus' you also have the wonderful experience of waiting for it [in the cold & wet]
Why would you want to do that rather than getting on with it?

The cycling bus concept already exists in Manchester as a "critical commute". I've seen it once or twice, but it doesn't follow the route I do, and doesn't move fast enough.

Critical Mass is, in many ways, redundant as a message format, since it never gets beyond the reality that there are not so many cyclists moving about together every day. Even Beijing isn't like that, and China is the land of the bicycle.

The car still represents personal choice and freedom. the bicycle also represents that. Let the towns and cities become clogged with cars, and they'll cease to represent choice and freedom. The bicycle will seem like the perfect alternative to achieve that.

There is a critical mass of cycling happening right now - more and more people ride bikes to work, whether for exercise or because that's all they have. The decision to join in with that is not going to come from an apprently confrontational approach.

Well put Tom.

🙂

Ever been on a group ride through a town? I have several times and it was always fine.

Nope, can't even imagine why I'd want/need to to be honest. I used to ride through Liverpool with a mate on our commute, even that was pretty unsociable and we were often separated at lights etc.

Nope, can't even imagine why I'd want/need to to be honest.

The launch of a new Sustrans route from Darlington to Stockton saw a group of about 30 ride the route. No aggro with car drivers.

Darlington council's cycle forum rode round the new infrastructure in the town. There were about a dozen of us. Again, no aggro.

Maybe so mike, but at what time of day, and through what traffic? Claiming one particular sustrans route was easy on one particular day doesnt really mean much, regular city/town riding on normal roads with normal cycling provisions simply wouldnt be appropriate in a group.

Maybe so mike, but at what time of day, and through what traffic? Claiming one particular sustrans route was easy on one particular day doesnt really mean much.

The Sustrans ride was a Saturday morning, I think. It went from one town centre to another, along various types of road.

The council ride was one weekday on the tail end of the rush hour. As you can see on [url= http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Darlington-Cycle-Forum-Bike-Lane-Tour ]the map of the route[/url], we covered most of the town, doing 10 miles in a town that's only 3 or 4 miles across.

regular city/town riding on normal roads with normal cycling provisions simply wouldnt be appropriate in a group

Depends upon how you define a group, I suppose. A dozen people all starting in the same place and heading to the same place at roughly the same speed would still get split up a little, so I really don't think it would be a problem.

This would be on roads/routes I ride regularly and know very well. I know what the traffic's like at different times, so I've a good idea what it would be like.

Well of course if you get split up then it becomes nothing more than a few bunches of a few riders, wouldnt cause much problem at all. But that wasn't what I invisaged by a bike bus.
[img] http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/resources/images/668373/?type=display [/img]

That's a bike bus in my thought processes, and I could see that annoying drivers. It would annoy me, as a driver, and as a cyclist if it were going slowly. As a commuter, commuting on the roads, I'm not there for fun or for a sense of groupiness, I'm there to commute. As fast, efficiently and legally as possible - that's why I dont like the idea ofa bike bus I think. I hate proper buses because when I'm going somewhere I want to be there, I dont want others around me and I dont want to have to wait for others to get off and on lol. I suppose this is why if I'm not riding I'm driving (other than the fact that its cheaper than using public transport).

Mike that route is almost totally residential areas with lowish traffic - that's why it was chosen
I can't really see why anyone would take that route - presuming they worked in the town centre

McMullen rd/Haughton rd jcn to the town centre via Neasham rd?
it's not going to work as a way to get people into town, fine as a safe route to cycle around with kids [as I do] but it's not practical as a commuter route.

[i]binners - Member
I can think of no better way to endear cyclists to the general public than making them late home from work on a Friday evening. It advances our cause no end, I'm sure

I'd also like to thank Critical Mass for giving the impression that most cyclists have serious personal hygiene issues and are, in fact, a bunch of brainless crusty morons. Well done![/i]

Just like you prove that most forum members are bigoted stereotyping morons that think the using your right as citizen makes you A crusty Moron. All those Crusty Morons whom the majority of people actually in the long run seem to be following... Sometimes you have to be loud and annoying to get things done.. If There was the Internet at the and 19th century half the people here would be complaing about Women disturbing there horseracing by throwing themselves under it, the century before that you'd be moaning about poor people being able to vote.Before anyone says that there bad analogys, The whole City vehicle and non vehicle users is about the smaller guy ( in this case the unprotected cyclist vias the two ton car) being heard being seen and being valued- If they slow traffic one Friday a month maybe it will remind other road users how much longer it would take to get around town if all of the cyclists were in cars...

Mike that route is almost totally residential areas with lowish traffic - that's why it was chosen
I can't really see why anyone would take that route - presuming they worked in the town centre

McMullen rd/Haughton rd jcn to the town centre via Neasham rd?
it's not going to work as a way to get people into town, fine as a safe route to cycle around with kids [as I do] but it's not practical as a commuter route.

That was a tour of facilities, not a specific route, so it went through various random areas.

My commute: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/New-commute199532

Following crusty Morons? Thankfully, critical mass numbers are down.And it is nice that you reinforce my and I am sure, a lot of fellow bigots opinions in comparing your protests(sic)to the campaign for the vote.Where are you and your crusty mates when I am commuting to work on a freezing Feb morning? Oh and forum members...that would be cyclists then? Explain why stopping parents getting their kids home on a Friday teatime does anything to advance the cause of cycling.

So, just to get this straight. The "cause of cycling" (whatever that is) is best advanced by staying out of the way of the school run mums and making sure they (above all people) are in no way inconvenienced by an excess of cyclists?

😉

You cant build bridges by launching rockets.

If they slow traffic one Friday a month maybe it will remind other road users how much longer it would take to get around town if all of the cyclists were in cars...

It won't [doesn't] it just reminds city drivers that cyclists are are bunch of ar$eholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to them.
Trouble is, the anarchic types that tag along & shout the loudest don't want to re-evaluate the tactics.

That was a tour of facilities, not a specific route, so it went through various random areas.

OK

I'll stick to the main roads for getting into town then 🙂

BTW - how do you attack that new roundabout thing on Haughton road?

'Annoys car drivers'

So ****ing what? Many of the selfish ****s annoy the **** out of me, by driving like complete idiots, putting my life and others in danger. Let them ****ing wait a bit. Or better still, get out of yer cars and onto a bike, or bus, or tube, you selfish lazy bastards. I'd reckon 70% or more of all car journeys in a big city like London, are unnecessary. What's the average journey length, 3 miles or something? Jeeze...

Too much is geared up towards the car, because cars pay tax revenue which can then buy guns and bombs to hassle other countries into giving us cheap oil to run our cars etc etc blah blah blah.

Car drivers? ****'em. it's my city too, and if I want to ride round in a big bunch with other cyclists, then I'll do so. As for me being selfish, well, then I'm no different to most drivers, am I? And I don't create pollution...

I thought the 'cause of cycling' was getting from A to B, not stopping other people from getting from A to B .....

that's fine Rudeboy - you can't beat a bit of retaliation

But they need to come out & say that's why their doing it - people would then better understand

[i]Explain why stopping parents getting their kids home on a Friday teatime does anything to advance the cause of cycling.[/i] There not stopping the ones walking are they? I'm fairly sure there's studies that say most kids are within a mile of there schools, I'm not a crusty (i'm not really sure what they are) I just don't understand why cyclists shouldn't be supporting the right to ride en-mass, when you spend the rest of the month shunted in to the gutter whislt cars fly by inches away from you.

So ****ing what? Many of the selfish ****s annoy the **** out of me, by driving like complete idiots, putting my life and others in danger. Let them ****ing wait a bit. Or better still, get out of yer cars and onto a bike, or bus, or tube, you selfish lazy bastards.

I repeat, you cant build bridges by launching rockets. The vast MAJORITY of people are car drivers. Annoy them and, by the nature of a democracy, you'll lose whatever youre attempting. Sure there are bad drivers, but there are bad cyclists who do the same daily to me when commuting - so thats an irrelevant argument, I wish people would stop using it.

I'd reckon 70% or more of all car journeys in a big city like London, are unnecessary.

Or quite simply impossible with a quantity of paperwork, an expensive suit and a laptop to carry. Though I agree some are unneccessary, a large percentage are not.

Too much is geared up towards the car, because cars pay tax revenue which can then buy guns and bombs to hassle other countries into giving us cheap oil to run our cars etc etc blah blah blah.

Losing credibility now...

Car drivers? ****'em. it's my city too, and if I want to ride round in a big bunch with other cyclists, then I'll do so. As for me being selfish, well, then I'm no different to most drivers, am I? And I don't create pollution...

Nope, its gone.

You'll do no positive influencing with that attitude, so really you're just working against cyclists.

I just don't understand why cyclists shouldn't be supporting the right to ride en-mass, when you spend the rest of the month shunted in to the gutter whislt cars fly by inches away from you.

Because you never win anything by going on the offensive and forcing yourself on the majority, you just become a target for abuse. Personally I dont ride in the gutter and so dont get cars flying by inches away. I do get loons pulling out on me.

BTW - how do you attack that new roundabout thing on Haughton road?

Usually, I ride past the huge queue of traffic on the 'wrong' side of the road, then ride over onto the bike path outside the BP garage and use the bike path to get to Borough Road. Much quicker than waiting for the lights to change. If I happen to get near the front of the queue as the lights go green, I take my place in the middle of the lane and ride round the roundabout with the cars.

it just reminds city drivers that cyclists are are bunch of ar$eholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to them.

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of arseholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

Seems that quite a few on this forum are merely car drivers that ride a bike sometimes...

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of ****, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

There you go then - stalemate

Try something new

Seems that quite a few on this forum are merely car drivers that ride a bike sometimes...

Actually the VAST majority of cyclists drive as well. And the VAST majority, I'm sure, would not want to be held up at every turn by a bunch of idiots on bikes trying to make trouble. Dont try to make being a "cyclist" into a cause where you can only be one or the other, thats just stupid.

The vast MAJORITY of people are car drivers

Utter, utter bollocks. I'm talking about London, here; the percentage of journeys made by car, in the centre, compared to all other forms of transport, is very small.

Or quite simply impossible with a quantity of paperwork, an expensive suit and a laptop to carry

Typical 'oh but I'm special, I need my car' bollocks. I can carry more than that on my bike. A friend is a lawyer, and carries exactly that amount, on a bike. Bullshit argument.

I'm not interested in a 'positive attitude', until car drivers stop being so selfish. Asking nicely doesn't work with ignorant, selfish people. They don't care. So, force them off the road, I say.

Congestion Charge: make it £50 a day...

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of ****, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

I have to say that I don't think that's ever happened to me, and I often ride in the middle of the lane if it's safer. Maybe it's a Lahndan thing?

Having said that, [url= http://quickrelease.tv/?p=748 ]Carlton Reid was deliberately driven at the other night[/url] and I think he's in Newcastle.

Bigdummy,how many criticalmass demos take place during school run time? If you have children and both you and your partner work, then you may have to leave them with a childminder,my sister found herself in this situation during one of the Edinburgh ones about 18 months ago,stuck in a car with a 2 and 6 year old.Still as long as you can all stick it to the man, eh? Go on rudeboy, wave your willy about the miles you do each day as a real cyclist.

The whole City vehicle and non vehicle users is about the smaller guy ( in this case the unprotected cyclist vias the two ton car) being heard being seen and being valued

No it isn't. That assumes that (a) we all have to fight each other, and (b) that I am unable to make myself sufficiently seen, heard and valued when on the roads. Training for cyclists would do a much better job of that.

This also assumes that the rights of cyclists who ride 10 miles to work in the dark along busy A roads from their small village are somehow less valuable than those who ride around towns and cities.

If Critical Mass as a concept is to serve any purpose, then it needs to drop the political angle. In this country, unfortunately that is entrenched, as a reult of the confrontation between CM and the Met over the concept of organised protests. Now, from an ideological point of view, I agree with the stance taken. But that moved it away from a transport issue into one of a continuing right to protest.

Yeasr ago, my mother was involved in the animal rights movement. She's pretty moderate, but she did come into contact with those who were less so. Her view was that they were simply hijacking the original purpose - a moral, ethical stance - and turning it into an anti-establishment political stance. CM has ended up here, and as such its usefulness at demonstrating an alternative to the car has ended.

I maintain that the true critical mass is simply shown in the increasing number of individuals riding bikes. They do it for utilitarian* means, but the net effect is one of more bikes on the road and a necessary requirement for those still in cars to change their behaviour. Driver behaviour will not change over night, but will gradually alter as the road user profile changes away from such a dominance of car driving.

So, don't give me "it's the only way for the little guy to fight" bollex. CM is just an excuse now for an easy protest without having to believe in much more than protest itself. Not good enough.

*As in JS Mill.

Utter, utter bollocks. I'm talking about London, here; the percentage of journeys made by car, in the centre, compared to all other forms of transport, is very small.

You might be talking about london (as usual), but the rest of us were talking about any large town or city. Regardless, the point was that THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE CAR DRIVERS. This is true, regardless of where they are.

Typical 'oh but I'm special, I need my car' bollocks. I can carry more than that on my bike. A friend is a lawyer, and carries exactly that amount, on a bike. Bullshit argument.

Just because you can, as a fit, healthy and capable person doesnt mean everyone can, or indeed should. A) There are many people for whome the change to cycling would simply be impossible, or take too long to reach a sensible level of fitness. B) There is personal choice involved, just because you think its right that everyone should be cycling doesnt mean it IS right. If the percentage of road users were so small, as you have suggested above, there woudl be no congestion charge requirements and there would be no traffic problem in London. Add to that the figure you were (I think it was you) bandying about the other day - 6 or so million entering the capital each day to work - a very large percentage of which are outside "sensible" bike commuting distances. In other cities, such as liverpool, the city is spread out over a large area, people often live a LONG way from where they work. I used to commute 34 miles a day on a bike, but it took a LOT of doing and serious fitness, and a LOT of time out of my day, to assume your average car-driving merchant banker (which you're so proud of being the mainstay of the UK economy) could do the same is utter tripe.

I'm not interested in a 'positive attitude', until car drivers stop being so selfish. Asking nicely doesn't work with ignorant, selfish people. They don't care. So, force them off the road, I say.

I don't do very many, actually. I don't even ride my bike every day.

I knew my vehement response would get some of you going (s'why I did it!). And some of my best friends are Car Drivers, before I get accused of being car-o-phobic or something...

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

There are too many cars on the road-FACT.

There is too much pollution caused by cars- FACT.

There are too many people killed by selfish and careless drivers -FACT.

something's gotta be done, and as I pointed out earlier, asking nicely falls on deaf ears.

Most people don't really need a car- FACT.

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE CAR DRIVERS.

Back that up with some stats. The population of Britain is 56 million. Prove there are more than 28 million drivers.

Bearing in mind that there are many who hold licences, but never drive, I suspect you won't find this one easy...

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

That's the problem.

Encouraging people to use other means through advertising and building new UK-style infrastructure doesn't seem to be working.

Actively discouraging car use seem to be the only way forward, but there's no political will to do this in the UK.

Well said Fred, people who drive cars in large cities deserve all the derision and flack possible.
Cars are for long journeys on large car biased carriageways, not on inner city roads originally designed around the horse and cart.

Just like mopeds, horses and bicycles are banned from motorway use perhaps large motor vehicles should be banned from single lane inner city roads ???

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

And soi, Fred, all you really wish to do, is travel at a pace and in a manner which suits you. It's not really about anyone else, is it? It's about your convenience.

Which is pretty typical of THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

Sheesh.

did anyone see the critical mass documentary? it documented the birth of it, back in some US city. the idea back then was to not instigate a 'go slow' but to cruise along at a fair lick to show the benefits. i saw the said film at the cinema and there was a q+a at the end - a middle aged lady could not see any reason to participate unless it is to go incredibly slowly and make motorists angry. it was quite sad and more than a little worrying

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

Most journeys I make on my bike could be done faster in a car. Most journeys I drive I get held up by a cyclist at least once. If I dont want to use the bike I have to drive as there's no public transport that is usable where I live. The rest of the country (TM) is different from the big smoke.

There are too many cars on the road-FACT.

There is too much pollution caused by cars- FACT.

You could argue there's too much polution full stop. I hope you never take a plane abroad, dont heat your home (its not necessary after all, just comfortable) and never use a TV - what a waste of power.

There are too many people killed by selfish and careless drivers -FACT.

something's gotta be done, and as I pointed out earlier, asking nicely falls on deaf ears.

Only if you ask in the wrong way. Shouting falls on a fist coming the other way.

Most people don't really need a car- FACT.

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

By slow integration of cycling through schemes such as cycle to work, giving incentives to cycle rather than ride if possible etc. This works, at my last place of work we took the number of city commuter cyclists from 2.5% to over 5%, much higher than national average for businesses. Change takes time, you cant be a revolutionary cyclist and force it overnight by being offensive on the road, that just makes YOU the tw*t.

Bearing in mind that there are many who hold licences, but never drive, I suspect you won't find this one easy...

Anyone who drives, however rarely, is a driver and is able to see how frustrating a millitant cyclist can be. It was never question of numbers, it was a question of experience and sense.

Back that up with some stats. The population of Britain is 56 million. Prove there are more than 28 million drivers.

And, in your tactics, prove I'm wrong. You're coming at it from the view of a city dweller in the capital, a place with a well established and renowned public transport network, reaching in all directions. For once, think about it from other peoples shoes...

Personally i think the problem with CM is not the message but the fact that it does not get through. There are a lot of motorists sat in cars thinking why the hell are these cyclists blocking up the town, or they may not even know it is cyclists.

oldcodger - I have lived (off and on) and worked in cities for the past 9 years. I'm just capable of seeing both sides of a story. Grow up.

And, Rudeboy, as you said in a previous thread:

you (and others) have made your minds up that it's 'cr4p'[all drivers in cities are idiots and cyclists should be millitant], etc, so there's no point me wasting my time trying to explain things to you.

Coffeeking; We're talking about Critical mass, here. something that is staged in large cities, which London is one of. i am not commenting on car use outside of London, or outside any large city. I am talking about car use IN a large city, FFS. MOST of which is UNNECESSARY.

Right.

[url= http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=219239 ]There are approx 33 million vehicles on the road in Britain.[/url]

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

Ok so.

A far smaller proportion of people in London own or drive a car. A big chunk of cars in London are people coming in from the suburbs and Home counties.

Whilst I appreciate there are many people who do need cars, such as those with disabilities, people who need to transport special equipment, like doctors, etc., there are many who simply don't, and it's their selfish behaviour that affects everybody else.

The car is a quick and convenient form of transport, but the reality is, for most people, it's a luxury item, like a telly or iPod. There is a perceived status to car ownership, which does not help matters at all.

I'm not for ridding ALL cars from city streets, but a 50% reduction would be ****ing amazing, in the impact that would have on congestion, pollution and the overall quality of life of all urban residents.

Blah blah I'm sure those with intelligence can work out the rest.

And the whole point of CM, is to say 'look, we're here on bikes, deal with it', NOT '**** all drivers'. That's just a radical minority, and me. I suspect quite a few peopleon here have never been on a CM. I have, and I've seen people having a go at others, for deliberately pissing off car drivers, as that's not the intention.

If a tractor is driving along a tight country lane, and you're stuck behind it, you just have to wait. No point getting steamed up about it, it won't get you along any quicker. Same with CM. Just that people in cars often seem to have the attitude of 'get out of my way I'm more important than you'.

Oh, I have all sorts of anger management issues anyway, and love a good confrontation.

I'm quite nice, most of the time, though.

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

My parents have [b]one[/b] car. [b]Both[/b] of them are drivers.

Coffeeking; We're talking about Critical mass, here. something that is staged in large cities, which London is one of. i am not commenting on car use outside of London, or outside any large city. I am talking about car use IN a large city, FFS. MOST of which is UNNECESSARY.

CM has been held in all the cities I have lived/worked in. Most of which are not clogged with traffic.

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

Slightly shit maths there, since MANY people share cars with their other half. You cant base the number of drivers on teh number of cars. And if you read my post you'd see my point was not that there were set numbers of cars, but that everyoen knows the experience of driving and wouldnt want to be held up by a moron on a bike for no reason. Please read posts before replying.

A far smaller proportion of people in London own or drive a car. A big chunk of cars in London are people coming in from the suburbs and Home counties.

Obviously, these are the people that you claim make london great, and the centre of our economy etc. Do you really expect those 6-7 million to come in on public transport or bikes? I mean you'd have to what, double, maybe more the number of buses, taxis (still cars) and trains/underground to cope, AND make new/bigger links.

Whilst I appreciate there are many people who do need cars, such as those with disabilities, people who need to transport special equipment, like doctors, etc., there are many who simply don't, and it's their selfish behaviour that affects everybody else.

And it's your selfish behaviour that affects other cyclists! Some people drive in because they have multiple places to visit on the way home, shopping to collect etc, while living 10 miles from the city and not near a public transport link. Not all cities are the same as London, you cant widely condemn all (city or otherwise) drivers as selfish based on London.

I'm not for ridding ALL cars from city streets, but a 50% reduction would be ****ing amazing, in the impact that would have on congestion, pollution and the overall quality of life of all urban residents.

I agree, removing some of the cars would be great. But who chooses who gets to stay and who doesn't? As an urban resident, claiming all the virtues of a city and how you love it so much, you really cant complain when people drive through cities - cities are nothing more than road networks between densely packed businesses, surrounded by homes. You chose to have a home there?

And the whole point of CM, is to say 'look, we're here on bikes, deal with it', NOT '**** all drivers'. That's just a radical minority, and me.

If it had stuck to its original aim, and were delivering it, it would be fine. What it has become, and you, stand for something which is a pointless waste of time that will hurt "the cause".

If a tractor is driving along a tight country lane, and you're stuck behind it, you just have to wait. No point getting steamed up about it, it won't get you along any quicker. Same with CM. Just that people in cars often seem to have the attitude of 'get out of my way I'm more important than you'.

Nope, you're missing the point. The tractor driver is going about his business making a living, not out to prove that his tractor should be on the road and you shouldn't, and he is not trying to prove some moral high ground. That is why we give them time and space.

You can clearly see the affect CM is having by recent news reports, I'll try to drag up the links tonight, where people are seeing cyclists as green activists now and disliking all cyclists as they assume they're trying to claim a moral high ground and are better than others. Thsi is the start of the backlash.

Oh, I have all sorts of anger management issues anyway, and love a good confrontation.

I'm quite nice, most of the time, though.

🙂 Me too, hence I get into massive posts on here WITH YOU more often than not! I too swear and curse at drivers who dont give me room when I'm going about my commute. I also swear and curse at cyclists who run reds and cause havoc on the road through lack of road sense. As part of each I see both sides. As part of each I try to find a fair solution.

Still not a VAST MAJORITY.

That would be 70% or something.

Neither of my parents drive. I don't drive. So the VAST MAJORITY of my family don't drive! In't statistics lovely?

I do want to learn to drive, as it's a useful skill to possess. And i'd be able to drive out to places some of you lot live in, and give you grief out on the trails...

But I wouldn't drive about in London. No point. Need a motor occasionally? Hire one.

Example: t'other week, I was coming back from my swim. About 1/2 a mile from my home, I saw a (fayt) woman get in a car. I got back to my house, taking a slightly different route from the road, and she was pulling up, to go into a friend's house.

HALF A ****ING MILE. If she walked those sort of distances, she wouldn't be so fayt. BTW, no disabled badge in car, and she seemed to move perfectly ok. Just ****ing lazy.

It's that sort of attitude that I hate. That, and the 'oh I'm too good for public transport' selfishness.

GRRRRR!!!

I need a cuppa. Can someone run down to the shop to get some milk for me? It's only downstairs.Ta.

It's that sort of attitude that I hate.

Me too.

That, and the 'oh I'm too good for public transport' selfishness.

I just cant stand public transport, I hate being in close proximity with random people. Though not a scientific test I know, I spent the last 9 years commuting great distances on public transport and in cars. The years where I had to use PT I was ill more often than I was well, I had two instances of people losing control of their bowels and bladder on teh seat in front of me, I had countless fights break out around me. No ta.

Coffee needed, I'm off! Good day to you all!

I agree, removing some of the cars would be great. But who chooses who gets to stay and who doesn't?

I should!

'No, don't like your face; sorry, no car for you. NEXT. No, too fayt; you can't have a car unless you lose 3 stone. NEXT. No, you're a Chelsea fan; lifetime ban. NEXT. You have 4 kids? Well, is that my fault? Sell a couple. Denied. NEXT. you live in the country? Then grow some potatoes or something instead. Not even a tractor. NEXT...'

Ah, I can but dream....

I just cant stand public transport, I hate being in close proximity with random people

??????? What a snob!!!

You'd never drive again, under my regime. And you'd be sentenced to traveling on Public Transport for all eternity!!!!

Well, RudeBoy, that went quite well, I thought. You were far more reasonable and restrained than normal. Well done!

Gibber.

??????? What a snob!!!

Its not snobbish, well maybe a [i]little[/i], but generally I just dont like people. I hate neighbours because they all make a racket and are unthoughtful etc. I like being with the people I choose, or alone - not forced into places with other people. Not in a "ooh im scared of the public" sort of way, just in a "God I hate having to sit scrunched up while 4 people push past you, 3 sneeze on you" sort of way. Oh and the fact that public transport has never yet, IME, been cheaper than driving, or faster point to point, until I met the Glasgow subway - now that is fast and frequent enough to be acceptably empty.

Ah well, (sip)...mmmmmm, on with work...

I cant spell either it seems, hence many edits

Because you never win anything by going on the offensive and forcing yourself on the majority, you just become a target for abuse.

Good job the Gay Pride movement never followed that piece of advice.

I think you should learn to drive rudeboy, after all that white van is just cluttering up your drive.

In answer to the OP (finally) - yes there is a Bristol Critical Mass. I've never been on it though.

Good job the Gay Pride movement never followed that piece of advice

No comment. Talk about comparing apples and oranges.

And for whoever wrote the tag, I've not missed any point, I just have a different point of view 🙂

I'd be merciless...

'GET AHT OF MY FAHKIN' WAY, YOU FAAAHKIN' CAAAAHHHNT!!!'

'All right darlin'; d'you want some or what?'

'Cor, look at the arse on THAYT!'

'Send 'em back 'ome!'

'Where d'you faahkin' learn to drive? Faahkin' Bongo-Bongo Laynd?'

Etc. Continued gratuitous stereotyping of White Vayn Mayn...

Rudeboy: what's with the additional y in some of your words?

White Vayn Mayn

My experience of London CM from a riders pov was pretty negative, we bumbled around really slowly, clogged up a roundabout and looked like dicks - the end.

Far better to cajole than to act up - why not have a tax benefit to not driving, a direct payment which would show up on your payslip at the end of the month or week. Obviously this would need administration, but incentives have been shown in a few studies to be the most effective way to get people to consider changing their mode of transport. A pound a day to leave your car at home!

'Vayn'. S'proper way to say 'van'. Try it; you might like it!

'Vayn'. S'proper way to say 'van'. Try it; you might like it!

I always read it as "Va Yan" - like Penelope Pitstop shouting for "Hey Elp".

Well that's just silly.

How utterly ridiculous.

So, is vain, pronounced like vain, to rhyme with train?

I have a £6.20 a day incentive to let someone else have my place on the train...

😉

No no no. 😯

Somewhere between 'van' and 'vain'. [i]VAYN[/i].

I have a £6.20 a day incentive to let someone else have my place on the train...

I have a several thousand pound incentive to not learn to drive and buy a car.

I could have an extra £2k/yr not to have a fully financed car

nah ........ I'll keep the car

I think the issues this country has with saving and spending indicate how poorly alot of people rationalise savings over payments. Receiving a payment is rewarding to most, not spending the money in the first place is rewarding to only a few.

It's not so much car ownership that is the problem, just selfish and needless use of them.

right im not going to lie, i have not read all 77 reply's, but was there an answer to my question?

right im not going to lie, i have not read all 77 reply's, but was there an answer to my question?

about a dozen replies up - Mr Agreeable

thank you Mr Agreeable!