Cost of School 'Residentials' Rant

Ahhh, dry your eyes Princess. You’ll be able to see your family during all the holidays you get off.
😆
But genuinely if it wasn’t for the teachers and helpers it wouldn’t happen so fair play to them.
Our daughters pgl coming up this summer at end of yr 6 is £260 I think for a two nights 3 days, I wouldn’t suggest it’s the transport costs for this one as we live smack on the edge of the peaks where it’s taking place.
Somebody is definitely making good money somewhere but I bet it ain’t the teachers or instructors, more likely the owner of the activity centres…

If the benefits of outdoor training are as the residential centres claim (which I believe) surely its worth both the short and long term investment by schools/education authorities/government?

We used to have them, they’ve been sold off to reduce the ‘swollen public sector’ which is why the price has gone up and quality gone down.

Dear god,
Parents are whiney things aren’t they …
If schools offer these activities , you complain
If schools doesn’t offer these activities, you complain

And sure – refuse to pay and let little Stan go anyway – so the school ( and the tax payer) picks up the bill.

TBH , maybe schools should stop offering this sort of this , it causes too much hassle. Let them concentrate on the three Rs. And the parents can become responsible for sports, outdoors life, music, morals, values and discipline.

Obviously, we wounld’nt want the annual trip to Tuscany / New Bike to be put a under threat because of education …

I will concede – outdoor centres have to offer quality and the activities that are mooted. And not be offered as cash cows for the organisers

Always worth asking for a breakdown of the costs. We did this with one school trip and managed to halve the cost of the bus there by suggesting another firm that were much cheaper. Also ask if parents can provide transport between them, which will often be cheaper.

As others have said any trip that takes place mainly in school time must be available for all children in that group; payment for the trip (not meals etc) is voluntary, and non payment does not mean the child doesn’t go. It may however mean that the whole trip is cancelled, as schools will not be making a profit from this.

TBH, we will find the money some way or another as we want him to get the life experience, he will be with all his best mates, and at that age all this stuff is really big deal for them. However it’s not going to be easy to save £70 odd quid a month for the next 6 months or so.

This place btw:

Ahhh, dry your eyes Princess. You’ll be able to see your family during all the holidays you get off.

Ohhhh…check her! 😀

Most Authorities used to own a small residential centre and have a teacher seconded to organise each of the regions schools use of it. Sold off by Labour actually over the last 10 years (ours is a holiday home near Braemar now) Factor in the cost of a couple of ML’s on top of accommodation and even a couple of nights away for 12yo children is expensive. As stated schools actually take a hit running these.

As others have said any trip that takes place mainly in school time must be available for all children in that group; payment for the trip (not meals etc) is voluntary, and non payment does not mean the child doesn’t go. It may however mean that the whole trip is cancelled, as schools will not be making a profit from this.

First I knew, and I have been running them since I started teaching.Actually are you saying that schools make a profit running trips?

I’m just going to pitch the other side of this for a moment. I was not spoiled by my parents, far from it (no nintendo, crappy bike, never anything close to the fashionable clothes etc), which I hated at the time, and considered to be ‘so unfair’. However, despite not letting me go on the french trip (a massive **** about by all accounts), I did go on the outdoors one, and where I was put in the sailing group. Gutted at the time, I wanted to canoe.

Then I got put in a topper dingy and… click!

Despite still having a crappy bike, deeply unfashionable trainers, and being bought shirts by my mother instead of body warmers and hoodies etc, they somehow found the money for me to go on 3 more sailing weeks, 2 res. – one not, and after school sailing trips for about a year I think. I doubt I realised how much they were, often they were quite short notice, so much have presented a real inconvenience.

Looking back I find it difficult to argue with their priorities. I don’t sail any more, but I do want to and will certainly do so one day. I do like getting outdoors, even if its cold and wet.

Oh, and outdoor pursuits teachers are not minted by any stretch, equipment costs money, as does liability insurance for when little darling doesn’t listen to what he’s told about the edge/harness/pointy things.

Obviously, we wounld’nt want the annual trip to Tuscany / New Bike to be put a under threat because of education …

Cock.

I will always put my children before me. My bikes will attest to that. However I, like many, have a fixed disposable income. If I can afford to send them I will. If I can’t I’ll do everything I can to try and afford it. However, as others have said, financial requests from school for various things are creeping up. I would question the educational validity of a skiing trip.

I am reasonably confident that at least two of the school trips I went on had no real purpose other than to secure two of our teachers a long weekend together and away from their respective spouses .

Sold off by Labour actually

How very dare you. We all know it’s only the nasty tories that sell off things like school playing fields etc 😉

As ji said, it is worth checking with the school for a breakdown of costs. We did and it turned out they used the same coach company that takes the children to/from school each day as it was easy, a change to another company reduced the prices significantly.

Whilst some may think the purpose of the school trip is questionable (skiing etc) I think they are important as they are all part of a growing up experience for the child. I did a 5-day trip last year with 11-year olds as a parent helper, 3 days of which involved cycling, quite surprising how many could not ride a bike prior to the trip. This was addressed before we left. It was, for quite a few, the first time they had been away from their parents and the home environment, it was also the first time they had to share a bedroom. We had hours of fun showing them how to make a bed, how to unpack and keep a room tidy, why you need to wash and change your clothes occasionally. A large proportion did a lot of growing up that week.
What did irk me though, was when we got back, I found out that the teachers did not pay anything for the week whereas the parent helpers paid the full amount. Some of the teachers were more demanding than the children and were only there to make up the numbers.

I found out that the teachers did not pay anything for the week whereas the parent helpers paid the full amount.

Well the teachers would be in loco parentis whereas I doubt that the parent helpers would be. Also if your employer organised a trip would you be willing to give up your holidays (I’m assuming it wasn’t during term time) and pay for it out of your own pocket?

I got involved in a few as volunteer and have been on a fair few day and residential trips. They are blooming hard work but massively worth it educationally. Our school area is generally skint, and participation rates were getting very low so trips were abandoned. We looked into it as school governors and found that no effort was being done to shop around or negotiate on price, and only package deals were looked at rather than separating activity from accomodation etc.

Rather than paying upwards of £400 for a day’s coach hire we found the school could access the local authority transport pool and either use council minibus or rent in minibus at the bulk rate the council did, this got 17 seaters for £35 a day. Then we just needed volunteer drivers from the staff and parents/helpers. YHA have some excellent accommodation and food, and you can use this without buying their activities packages(which can be good too) letting you do other teacher led activities during the day (museums are free or cheap, same for city exploring, art/architecture study, most big museums or stately homes can lay on an education package for not much money too). We had a great day when we had every bike the hire place at Dalby owned and took them for a loop, even the girl who came off twice and shed some skin came back grinning like a loon. At least half a dozen of the kids on that trip went on the beach for the first time in their lives on that trip. If you have the time, get involved, volunteer, it makes a difference.

It costs £780 a kid

Blimey, how times have changed. And I’m sure that excellent sounding trip was subsidised somehow? I remember going to a place in Hertfordshire for a week with school, in about 1980; it was £15. But that was at an ILEA owned/run residential centre, which was sold off under a certain former Education Secretary’s reign.

As for high prices of activity trips now; won’t the blaim/claim litigation happy culture we’ve adopted mean that insurance costs are a big chunk of the costs of school trips? I’d imagine they were; God forbid little Ikea/Blade/Jaydee/Tabitha/Tarquin/Rupert/Dave should graze their knee, as that would mean the parents have to sue the school/LEA for millions for ’emotional distress’.

Glad I don’t have kids. New bike? Actually I’ll have two, thanks! 8)

Oh look; another anti-school thread.

Not really. I think it is a “bloody hell having children, and trying to do the best for them, is expensive” thread – with the question being; if this stuff is valuable why isn’t their centralised funding for it (and if there was centralised funding and its been cut – what consultation was used to assume that parents would just pick up the tab?).

On top of that there are various other issues that emerge about how schools present themselves to parents – but I’m sure all good teachers want to improve their schools so are listening:

– if you are subsidising those who cannot afford to attend (who may well be the kids that need it most – as my kids who can afford to go, already get to do stuff like this at my direct expense) make sure you don’t present it as charity.
– if you do this regularly then why not give parents lots of warning and easy ways to save. I know when it was recently raised in our school that parents got a month to find £80 for something that the answer back from the teachers was “but we do this every year and hadn’t finalised the costs”. Well (a) give us advance notice – you might do it every year and have a good idea of costs but we don’t; (b) but you probably have a good idea of an estimate; I can start saving £10 a month [possibly paid direct to the school]; and we can sort out the final amount near the time; (c) might even be worth you assuming it will be more and “making a little profit” on it which can either be refunded afterwards or used to make the experience better for the kids e.g. get everyone a “trip t-shirt” printed.
– I also think there can be a tendency for more affluent parents to gravitate towards the PTA/Parent Council/Governor roles which means that the school management become detached from understanding perceptions from less well off parents.

Its not the value per se that is the problem it is a lack of understanding the some people live on very tight budgets and can’t find cash at short notice. Whilst I know that everything is not rosy in the public sector / teaching world – its quite likely that most teachers making these decisions have never been made redundant / had huge financial uncertainty since they started their first proper job.

Cock.

Well, have one back. With brass knobs on

I would question the educational validity of a skiing trip.

It’s not – so don’t send them. It is a school holiday.
But I don’t think that is what the OP was talking about… do you ? Or did you just want to say cock?

My kids went on a residential to Condover Hall when in Y6 and it is the single thing that they and their friends still talk about when they reminisce about primary school.

Yes it was pricey but well worth it I think.

We’ve done PGL a few times and I guess the relatively high cost must be associated with the number of staff they employ to ensure safety etc.

thx1138 – Member

Luxury bus with 2 drivers (double deckers not allowed)
3 star hostel in all centres. Waling tour of Berlin,Story of Berlin Museum,Holocaust Museum.
Krakow; Tour of Schindler factory, Auschwitz, salt mines,tour of Krakow/jewish ghetto.
Belgium, Menin Gate/Tyne Cote cemetery/ Battlefield visit.
All food and admissions included and £780 includes £20 cash back to each pupil for food on bus back.

Not the cheapest quote, but £5 a head in it and I have used them before,so know the pupils will be best looked after. Oh and I have been unemployed as well Poly, but don’t let that remove any of your preconceptions about teachers.

but I’m sure all good teachers want to improve their schools so are listening:

That’s my favourite bit. 🙄

Obviously, we wounld’nt want the annual trip to Tuscany / New Bike to be put a under threat because of education

That’s harsh. The complaint is from people who don’t have the money at all, not people who’d rather lavish it on themeslves. I doubt the OP is going to Tuscany any time soon.

Its not the value per se that is the problem it is a lack of understanding the some people live on very tight budgets and can’t find cash at short notice.

I didn’t go on trips at school because we couldn’t afford it even though my father was Deputy Rector. There are differences between trips which are explicilty educational and trips with an educational value. The former is usually local and cheap the latter can be to anywhere. If it is compulsory then funding will be available if not then it may be avilable.

Value and cost are two different, but not necessarily exclusive, things when school trips are put together.

Just had ours – £250 to go camping for a week in the next village (they do one day abseiling and one caving, the rest is games on the campsite) while the ones who can afford it go for a week on the west coast of France (£450) – talk about dividing on parental income.

Both my lads have done the battlefields of Belgium and France and it really moved them, well worth the money but it was a full on itinerary, they came back shattered.

Eldest did a French exchange and the youngest is hoping to do the same in Denmark, happy to support that as they live with a family and we host their exchange student.

Eldest went on the French trip last year but the rules were so strict (no going in the sea, outside the campsite unsupervised, only two external trips in a week) he and his mates ran out of things to do (they are not into laying by a pool in the sun).

Youngest took this on board and turned down the French trip to be told he “had” to go on the local camping trip as it was compulsory to one or the other. I have, once again, paid the VP a visit and explained that he will not be in school that week to go camping as he and I are heading for a week of full on 7 days of father/son activity – windsurfing/paddleboarding/MTB/climbing in North Wales. He capitulated as Mrs Cat, the boys and I are prob seen as a bit of an awkward squad when it comes to the shite our local school comes up with.

£350 for 4 days?

we’ve just booked 10 days in a hotel in Northern Majorca that got Trip Adviser Family Hotel of the year award. With flights and transfers it didn’t cost much more than that.

The cost of many school trips seems high to me. The cost of some school ski trips that invole travelling by coach to some resort you’ve never heard of and stopping in a hostel seems in many cases to be as much as booking a proper trip at full brochure price.

I’d like to know why it isn’t mandatory/normal for schools to provide parents with an itemised ‘bill’ for school trips that involve an overnight stay.

This would maybe make them a bit more attentive in finding cheaper/better prices rather than just choosing the same providers over and over again because that’s who they used last time.

The sh*ts hitting the fan at school today. Loads of parents are complaining about the high cost of this mooted trip. Especially as last years year 6 trip to Overstrand in Norfolk cost £150 per child!

Son 2 has just returned from the annual rite of passage for his middle school that is the School trip to PGL in Paris. £260 all in for five days (mon-Fri) including a day in Disneyland Paris. All children in the final year went and parents had three years of warning that it would happen. The PTA made a contribution for at least one special case. Kids were all limited to 65 euros spending money too.

Son 1 did not travel on the Canadian rugby tour.

I had to earn all my school and scout trips.

Why don’t you and the wean organise some fundraising? Run a car wash, Pack bags in the supermarket, Bake cakes, jumble sales, discos, sponsored litter pick?

My folks were both teachers.

Duckman First I knew, and I have been running them since I started teaching.Actually are you saying that schools make a profit running trips?

definitely not saying they make a profit = the guidance linked below makes it clear that they are forbidden from making a profit – I was saying that if people insist on not paying for their child then the school may well have to cancel the trip as they cant afford to go.

(For the rights on charging for school trips – check the schools charging policy which they must have by law. Any trip mainly in school time cannot be charged for unless it is voluntary. Any child not paying cannot be excluded from the trip. DfE guidance here (Word document))

I’d like to know why it isn’t mandatory/normal for schools to provide parents with an itemised ‘bill’ for school trips that involve an overnight stay.

Because teachers are very busy and these trips are things they organize over and above their “job”. Frankly people would just not bother. I have organised A-level biology trips after the trips to field studies centres got too expensive, £300 or so for 3 nights, this is becuase our LEA wouldnt pay the tuition costs like some do. They are a monumental undertaking and a right royal pain in the arse.

There is obviously a lot more to it than that, as all the companies I used were English based,they could not exist if schools did not book trips. Not the same in Scotland,and as they are providing guidance and the doc is full of statements such as “should not” I would suggest that it is not legally binding. Seriously; who EXPECTS their pupil to get taken on battlefield trips etc as part of the course?

joao3v16 – Member
I’d like to know why it isn’t mandatory/normal for schools to provide parents with an itemised ‘bill’ for school trips that involve an overnight stay.

Not really read all of the thread have you? Get off your own arse and cost the trip I outline above cheaper. Why don’t you make a stand and refuse to send any of your kids on a trip as you feel the teachers are lazy?

My daughter is off to Paris for four days next week, including a day at Disneyland, which cost us £470 over eight months. Our son went a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it, so I don’t begrudge paying.

I don’t remember any residential trips when I was at school, but I was in the Scouts and every weekend we’d sign out camping kit, our parents would drop us off at a campsite on a Friday night and pick us up on sunday night.

Do they still allow that in the Scouts?

The only issues we had were a bit of food poisoning from poorly cooked chicken and being slap bang in the middle of a police search for a local murderer when we were the only people on the campsite!

£350 for a 4 nighter!!!

We clearly aren’t charging enough where I work… think half of that. No wonder our season runs from Jan to November.

Seriously though, I’d want to know a lot about that trip for that much money. There had better be some shiny kit and really fantastic instructors working with small groups in lovely places for that much money.

So the y8 easter trip is 2 weeks away, 12 kids from 4 different leeds schools off to Outward bound ullswater 5 day trip cost approx 350 400 each.Always a fantastic trip, kids talk about it for years. Its always a tough week activity wise. Luckily the trip is covered by the generosity of a local property firm and the outward bound trust. We also run an in house trip to staithes 😯 which costs about250 -300 each with massive dorms in the wooden army huts at the top of the village,have to do all the cooking,prep,activities and supervision 24/7 now that is kin hard graft. So all in all its very hard work for all involved so the extra money for instructors,decent kit,decent accommodation puts the cost for me into perspective. youngest off to disney paris in october its expensive 450 but imho worth it.
on the reverse side loose 1 week hols and can count on the fingers of 3 fingers the number of parents who have said and meant thanks.
school trips ace 😆
OB Instructors have been fantastic every time

lister – Member
£350 for a 4 nighter!!!

We clearly aren’t charging enough where I work… think half of that. No wonder our season runs from Jan to November.

Seriously though, I’d want to know a lot about that trip for that much money. There had better be some shiny kit and really fantastic instructors working with small groups in lovely places for that much money.

POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Email my profile with your details. I did my ML to make my Gold DoE more inclusive. I still have to hire another ML for my expedition (authority insists on ML’s for Gold) It costs me £xxx for the three nights of the expedition,which has to be passed on. We walk in the Cairngorms.

Why can’t you parents just say thanks, instead of whining about education and teachers. Reminds me of the speech in A Few Good Men about complaining about the manner in which the security is provided.

I get the feeling you just don’t get it. There is no money in education. It’s been cut for at least 10 years, or it’s be diverted into things that are not pupil centred.

Teachers give up there time for free to do these activities, less and less teachers are doing it, particularly adventure sports where the risks can be higher.

If you can’t afford don’t go, if you can go. Why should kids. Be prevented from going on trips because some parents would rather buy fags, vodka and Nike trainers than spend money on their kids?

It won’t be long till school stop offering these trips, hopefully then you will stop moaning. Fat chance!

WTF. Both my kids went to the North Lanarkshire owned one at Oban £125 f/b for a week absailing,canoeing,sking,rock climbing and gorge walking they also supplied all the outdoor clothing kids loved it.

I’d like to know why it isn’t mandatory/normal for schools to provide parents with an itemised ‘bill’ for school trips that involve an overnight stay.

Because teachers are very busy and these trips are things they organize over and above their “job”.

I wouldn’t get away with doing a half-arsed job just because I was busy or doing it ‘above and beyond’ my expected hours … if you’re going to do something (especially that’s costing other peoples money) then you should do it properly.

Or, ask for help from parents.

Not really read all of the thread have you? Get off your own arse and cost the trip I outline above cheaper. Why don’t you make a stand and refuse to send any of your kids on a trip as you feel the teachers are lazy?

I didn’t say they were lazy.

Teachers must know what constitutes the cost of any given trip to be able to specify a cost, so they must very easily be able to break it down between x number of pupils. It’s not rocket surgery.

The most expensive trip my 6yo’s been on is a day out at Chester Zoo for £10, so I’ve not yet had the opportunity to be ‘Daily Mail’ about the cost of anything.

Yawn, the edinburgh defense suits you well; “half-arsed” “lazy” “a bit more attentive” But you didn’t say we are lazy…Perhaps I should investigate the price of a litre of Diesel in Europe just to ensure I can give you as detailed a price as possible? Or should I see if the hostel along the road will do a better discount? BTW read A-A’s post again before you randomly quote chunks out of context.

Oh and what exactly is “rocket surgery?”

It’s like this, I get at least 5 quotes, they breakdown the cost of fuel/accom/entry into %. I then choose….in what way am I being lazy? or as you put it “half-arsed”

It would be so much easier for everyone I think if teachers just sopped doing all those unpaid jobs that just get seen for granted, you get no thanks from anyone.

Best bit of my job is the kids, shame you have to put up with all the crap of the day just to teach.

I wouldn’t get away with doing a half-arsed job just because I was busy or doing it ‘above and beyond’ my expected hours … if you’re going to do something (especially that’s costing other peoples money) then you should do it properly.

wasnt that my point? I avoid organising trips like the plague. I’d rather focus my time on helping kids pass exams. Its nothing to do with hours worked though. Its more its not actually in my contract to organise trips.