Search the forum using the power of Google

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 126 total)
  • Consumer rights advice help please.
  • renton
    Free Member

    Hi all.

    After some advice on consumer rights please.

    In August we purchsed 2 new sofas from Natuzzi. The ones shown to us in the showroom were apparently 18 months old and still looked fresh with no baggy fabric etc.

    Fast forward to today and both were meant to be delivered today, both were scanned out onto the van but only one has arrived and the other cant be found at the warehouse!

    The main issue is that the one thats turned up looks horrendous, the material is baggy and rippled and the sofa looks about 5 years old. The ones we sold that these replaced were 4 years old and looked much better.

    Photos below:

    What is should look like:

    What it actually looks like:

    [url=https://postimages.org/]photoupload[/url]


    What are our consumer rights here? Are we entitled to reject them and ask for a full refund?

    Any help would be great!

    Thanks

    Steve

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Yes,entitled to full refund.
    It’s not a discussion point; tell retailer you’re exercising your statutory legal rights.
    Items are not as described; in this case, different to the ones you saw in store and the website pic you posted.
    If it was me I would inspect the one delivered today for any labels with date of manufacture as that may indicate whether or not it’s new.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Did you buy new sofas which were the same model as in the shop, or did you buy those specific ‘display model’ ones?

    johndoh
    Free Member

    I read it as the display ones (which were allegedly well used) meant the OP bought new versions of the same thinking they would continue to look as new for a long time.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    If they can’t find the other one, and you bought them as a pair, then should be a fairly easy refund.

    Trouble is that who knows what happened to them in the past four or five months between you looking at them in the showroom and them reaching you? If I’m buying an ex-display sofa, I wouldn’t take a punt that it would still be OK some months later, I’d want it delivered straight away.

    TBH it doesn’t look that bad for something that has been bounced on by the general public in a showroom for the past two years, and the store may argue that it is of reasonable quality for something described (and priced) as such.

    So you’d better hope the other one doesn’t turn up. Get straight onto the store, ask them if they have it, and when they say they haven’t, sigh, and arrange a date for the one you have to be collected for a refund.

    read it as the display ones (which were allegedly well used) meant the OP bought new versions of the same thinking they would continue to look as new for a long time.

    Oh, that would be different, it doesn’t look like a new sofa to me.

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    If you bought them at a retailer then yes, reject as not as described and request a full refund.
    Do it soon so they can’t say you did it nor make deduction for wear.
    Expect “them” to be difficult, largely because it’s a pita for the folks you’ll deal with and they’ve rarely any better idea of your rights than you do.
    You shouldn’t need to go nuclear or really fight for it just don’t expect all smiles and sorted immediately. (you might get that though some places are excellent at this sort of thing, many are rubbish)

    renton
    Free Member

    Sorry I haven’t explained it properly.

    We really liked the model we sat on in the showroom, it was apparently around 18 months old but to us still felt new and looked good too. There was no baggy or worn material.

    AS such we decided to order new ones in a different colour to match our lounge.

    Unfortunately the one that turned up yesterday is the correct model but looks worn out already, you can see all the material is rippled and saggy and it some places you can actually pinch the loose material.

    I sent them an email last night to say that under the consumer rights act we want to reject them and have a full refund.

    May be sitting on the garden furniture for xmas at this rate !!

    mashr
    Full Member

    Other than the colour, is it the same material as the one in the shop and online? This can have an effect as some material just dont sit the same as others

    tonyf1
    Free Member

    Unfortunately the one that turned up yesterday is the correct model but looks worn out already, you can see all the material is rippled and saggy and it some places you can actually pinch the loose material.

    I sent them an email last night to say that under the consumer rights act we want to reject them and have a full refund.

    Is above the reason you state for rejection? The retailer is going to be able to refute worn out as it’s going to be down to the nature of the fabric. They will likely suggest they replace the cushions or add additional stuffing.

    They are going to resist a refund if it’s a custom order so unless this is a buyer remorse situation you may be better to work with the retailer to resolve rather than going directly to quoting CRA as first communication.

    renton
    Free Member

    There’s no buyers remorse to be fair.

    I just don’t want to be spending that amount of money on something that should have been perfect from the get go and needs repairs before its even been sat on.

    renton
    Free Member

    Other than the colour, is it the same material as the one in the shop and online? This can have an effect as some material just dont sit the same as others

    The material we have gone for is the slightly more expensive fabric. At no point did the salesman say it would look different.

    There was a different model of sofa in the showroom in the material we have chose and it looks perfect.

    tonyf1
    Free Member

    More expensive materials do tend to be denser leading to creasing and that material also has a heavy nap which you can see from the photos (some look grey others blue). Do have a look at the sales T&C’s as it’s likely to state material is natural and therefore some variation in … etc. etc.

    The nap will wear in with use to give a more uniform finish and cushions will expand into the shape of the cushions. Work with the Retailer as they’ll likely repeat above. If the material on the frame is fine fit wise I’d be after replacement cushions with additional padding. Good luck.

    Aus
    Free Member

    If it helps, we had a similar-ish situation. Mrs A politely asked for a refund, and collection of sofa asap, and didn’t get into discussion or debate. They quite quickly offered a discount of 10%, she declined politely, 50% declined, so they offered a full refund and asked if we wouldn’t mind keeping the sofa as it would a nuisance for them. She politely accepted. I think politeness, firmness and no discussion helped in our case. Good luck.

    poolman
    Free Member

    Oh dear I m a big natuzzi fan so I would reject, unless it’s cracking deal. Some nice Roche bobois sofas on gum tree if that’s your thing.

    Or Tetrad factory store, post stock on fb.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    tony – your comments don’t change the fact that the item delivered was not as described and, as such, gives the customer the legal right to a full refund.
    It also imposes a legal obligation on the retailer to make a full refund.
    It really is that straightforward.
    Any attempt by the retailer to advance the argument/defence you raised should be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    There was a different model of sofa in the showroom in the material we have chose and it looks perfect.

    Then Frank is correct. “As described” includes demo models in a showroom. Full refund (or a replacement if you want).

    Honestly, that looks like a manufacturing defect. Is the other side fine?

    renton
    Free Member

    Just had a call from the store.

    Apparently Natuzzi head office have said that they have to send out a technician to inspect the sofa before they can move forward??

    Pretty sure thats not correct and when I said that I had the legal right to a full refund the chap started getting a bit upset and said he would get the store manager to call me tomorrow?

    Have I done the right thing? Do i have to let them look at it before refunding? I’m just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there’s nothing wrong with it.

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Pretty sure thats not correct and when I said that I had the legal right to a full refund the chap started getting a bit upset and said he would get the store manager to call me tomorrow?

    Have I done the right thing? Do i have to let them look at it before refunding? I’m just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there’s nothing wrong with it.

    Don’t worry about it. You’re entirely correct, you’ve a right to reject. They do however have reasonable grounds to (at their expense) make sure it is faulty/not as described etc before following that through if you’re rejecting it is on the ground of fault etc.

    Follow the process, stick by your guns, get your refund.

    As above be polite, firm, to the point but reasonable.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I’m just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there’s nothing wrong with it.

    I think thats highly likely whatever you do.  Check the “which” link above for process.

    At some point they have to look at it to check your claim.  Its cheaper for them to send someone to your house than to collect the sofa to inspect it but I think that would be you doing them a favour rather than their right to inspect it in your house

    bensales
    Free Member

    If they regard the sofa as custom made (because you specified the fabric), then the rights are slightly different. They only have to refund if actually faulty…

    https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

    You have to offer a refund for certain items only if they’re faulty, such as:
    * personalised items and custom-made items, for example curtains

    Cougar
    Full Member

    What “Natuzzi head office have said” is neither here nor there. Your contract is with the store, the store’s contract is with Natuzzi. The store refunds you, the supplier refunds the store. If Natuzzi want to send out a technician, that’s the store’s problem not yours.

    When you talk to the manager tomorrow I would have two three questions:

    1) It’s not unreasonable for the store to want to verify whether the goods are not as described as you claim, so if they want a technician to attend then I’d be asking when they expect this to happen.

    2) Can they confirm whether they are refusing to honour your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015?

    3) Where the hell is the other one? It’s a sofa, not an SD card. Are you going to be standing up for another four months whilst they build a replacement?

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Wait for store manager to call and then repeat what you’ve already said.
    If it was me, I would ask store manager which section of the CRA they’re relying on to justify their proposed approach.
    You could re-visit the store to take photos of the display models; use them, the website photos and those you shared in your post to prove that on a compare’n’contrast basis what they delivered is not as described.
    Then there’s the missing sofa – you ordered two, they delivered one and don’t know where the other is.
    Without checking the regs I would say that gives you a further right to reject.
    As above – calm, firm, polite; do not concede anything or back down in any way.

    irc
    Full Member

    Paid by credit card?

    Cougar
    Full Member

    If they regard the sofa as custom made (because you specified the fabric), then the rights are slightly different.

    Whilst this is true for your right to reject under CCR, “as described” in CRA trumps this. If the OP had a custom sofa made up in blue fabric and it turned up orange then it is not as described no matter how bespoke it may be.

    You’ve probably got a ‘satisfactory quality’ argument there too. Would a reasonable person consider that to be of satisfactory quality?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I don’t think that is “not as described”

    the argument is is it of “satisfactory quality”

    renton
    Free Member

    Deposit paid by credit card thankfully. So got a little back up there.

    Thanks for all the advice everyone, its really appreciated.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Quick edit there Cougs to add comment about the missing sofa…

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    We had a had a few friends who said they had sofas which varied from what they had sat on in the showroom when delivered – similar issues of slack fabric, one with cusions/seat pads which seemed undersized by a few cm. A few even went back to showroom to compare – and indeed they even more felt theirs was not of the same quality.

    We recently bought new sofa’s – and bought cancelled order sofas from Ercol outlet – they were great on the phone, good images of the *actual* sofa, and they were exactly as described. Plus half price and delivered in a weeek. It took a few months of faffing and waiting for the right model and colour to come up – but worth it.

    stevextc
    Free Member

    All the above (except missing sofa) not withstanding are you sure the “new” sofa doesn’t just need using to “plump out”?

    Those creases/folds look like they are going to get filled as the foam bits press out through actual use?
    Never had a “quality” sofa made to last but I’d assume they would build in some initial play ???

    robertajobb
    Full Member

    One other thing.

    Do NOT accept them having a go at repairing / changing out a cushion etc.

    As soon as there’s been a repair / fix accepted, then your consumer rights to a subsequent refund disappear.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Not true robertajob

    Check the which site for details as per the link above

    tonyf1
    Free Member

    tony – your comments don’t change the fact that the item delivered was not as described and, as such, gives the customer the legal right to a full refund.

    The OP says that in his opinion the sofa is defective not that it’s not as described. The Retailer want to examine the sofa to form an opinion if defective. Given it’s likely to be made to order this isn’t cut and dried for a refund.

    renton
    Free Member

    Just to update,

    I had a call from the manager at the store we bought the sofas from and he again told me that head office want to send a technician to look at the sofa.

    They have also found the other sofa too and tried to arrange delivery but we stood our ground and reinforced that we would like to exercise our rights to a refund due to the quality not being the same.

    I also had to say that my contract is with the store and not Natuzzi UK and that it was up to them to deal with Natuzzi UK.

    I think I may have to get the credit card company involved as they are not acknowledging my request for a refund and instead keep pushing for an engineers visit

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    That left cushion cover looks badly made – is the right hand one the same?
    Is the fabric on the front of the frame loose also? If so I’d want them to go back, they could make a new cushion cover easily enough.

    I presume that sofa is larger than the one from the web site as there’s a seam.
    Did you order the same cushion pads as the one in the store? – different pads can look different (i.e. foam pads will be firmer than a feather/foam mix and will hold shape better but be not as soft.)

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I haven’t searched the which site for info on this but it does not seem unreasonable to me that they want to see it first.  People do try it on in this sort of situation I’m sure

    How about you suggest a compromise that you will send the shop a set of pictures of the issues?

    bails
    Full Member

    Is the base cushion removable? Can you take that to the store for “inspection”?

    snaps
    Free Member

    Don’t you have to allow the retailer a chance to correct the problem before the CC company get involved ?

    I know the CC company insisted a mechanic was given a chance to rectify a fault after fitting a clutch to a mates car before they would step in.

    renton
    Free Member

    Sorry, just catching up.

    Cushions aren’t removable so cant take it off.

    We have sent pics to the shop and the salesman agreed it didn’t look great.

    No different padding options were available. The one one in the shop was meant to be 18 months old and still looks tight with no baggy material.

    The sofa in the picture of the good one is actually the same size as the one we ordered, both larges I believe. That picture is what we thought we were getting, is exactly the same as the shop model.

    wwpaddler
    Free Member

    You’re going to need to let them to inspect the sofa. No retailer is going to give you a refund on a custom order just because you’ve told them it’s faulty. Whether the person inspecting your sofa on behalf of the store is employed by the store, by the manufacturer or an independent furniture assessor contracted by the store is irrelevant.

    By refusing to allow them to inspect you’ve just been added to the “difficult customer pile” so can now expect very little proactive help from the store. If I were you I’d get straight back on the phone to the store and arrange for your sofa to be inspected.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 126 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Search the forum using the power of Google

Thanks for popping by - why not stay a while?IT'S FREE

Sign up as a Singletrack Member and you can leave comments on stories, use the classified ads, and post in our forums, do quizzes and more.

Join us, join in, it’s free, and fun.