idiot parents

Like the ones driving there kids a few hundred metres down the road , contributing to 29,000 deaths ?

@Tom_W in that case there should be thousands of children under state ownership for thousands of reasons.

Why so at parents who do not get their children vaccinated. Not all are idiots.

What about parents who smoke, parents who speed, parents who let their children stay up way to late to the detriment of both their health and educational prospects etc?

Like the ones driving there kids a few hundred metres down the road , contributing to 29,000 deaths ?

If the state had it’s way, it’d make them walk to reduce obesity rates. Not really helping are yourself are you?

Why so at parents who do not get their children vaccinated. Not all are idiots.

Yes, yes they are.

What about parents who smoke, parents who speed, parents who let their children stay up way to late to the detriment of both their health and educational prospects etc?

All idiots, but fortunately they don’t usually harm other peoples kids.

I, for one, look forward to the arrival of your brave new world.

You don’t even need to have some brave new world dictatorship to have compulsory vaccinations.

All you have to do is simply decide that the right to be free from avoidable disease overrides the rights of others not to be given vaccines.

You’re already told what you can and can’t do to your kids (like not being a nonce) by the state – don’t see how vaccines are any different.

My point was the unbalanced argument that all parents should be shot for not vaccinating (even in extenuating circumstances) vs the lack of argument for pollution control which leads to many more deaths.

By the way, the Dutch don’t have an 1800’s economy.

By the way, the Dutch don’t have an 1800’s economy

They still have cars.

vs the lack of argument for pollution control which leads to many more deaths.

It only kills more because of vaccines, you massive genius.

You’re already told what you can and can’t do to your kids (like not being a nonce) by the state – don’t see how vaccines are any different.

if you can’t see the difference there is not really any hope for you.

if you can’t see the difference there is not really any hope for you.

So killing kids isn’t as bad as being a nonce then? 😀 If I’m going to argue with idiots, I’m going to fight you on your own hilarious level.

I’m not anti vaccine, my kids are vaccinated.

It only kills more because of vaccines, you massive genius.

Exactly, and reducing pollution. Will kill fewer than the 29,000 it does now.

But you seem to think that it’s fine to sacrifice these people, as long as you have a few extra quid in your pocket. Nice!

other words your children in effect become state property?

Children are not the property of anyone.

Exactly, and reducing pollution. Will kill fewer than the 29,000 it does now.

But you seem to think that it’s fine to sacrifice these people, as long as you have a few extra quid in your pocket. Nice!

Did I say that?

BTW, you know that manufacturers/the EU are working towards reducing pollution levels? Right? Or are we going to ignore that for your straw man argument.

So killing kids isn’t as bad as being a nonce then? If I’m going to argue with idiots, I’m going to fight you on your own hilarious level.

you’re arguing at your own level there so I’m having to reply. At no point did I say or even remotely suggest anything to do with killing kids.

you’re arguing at your own level there so I’m having to reply. At no point did I say or even remotely suggest anything to do with killing kids.

But you’re knowingly running the risk of killing other peoples children? If you do, you are guilty of manslaughter.

Now, why does the state not have a right to legislate against that – but the right to legislate for many other child protection issues?

None of you have a damn leg to stand on.

In the same way that MacDonald’s are “working towards” healthy food right ?

dannybgoode – Member
@epicyclo-who’s being anti-vax?

Sorry, that was supposed to be a general comment about anti-vac thinking, and not aimed specifically at you. Your stance is quite clear and reasonable.

noltae – Member
@epicylo you should go chug on a big flagon of ZMAPP

Why?

I wasn’t advocating experimental vaccination.

But assuming it did work safely, are you suggesting folk in ebola areas shouldn’t be vaccinated?

In the same way that MacDonald’s are “working towards” healthy food right

No, in a way that allows manufacturers to develop the technology to meet the standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Lets carry on with the whatabouterry though. That is all your position boils down to, simple whatabouterry to defend your views.

OP – I think you’re giving yourself too much credit for being reasonable here.

Your whole argument is predicated on “personal choice” being a valid consideration with regard to vaccination.

It just isn’t. Don’t you see the logical contradiction?

It’s nothing to do with whatabouterry . I just asked a question why not the same level of froth about pollution as vaccines.

It’s nothing to do with whatabouterry . I just asked a question why not the same level of froth about pollution as vaccines.

There is, hence educated people in positions of power implementing changes against the wishes of industry and a lot of petrol heads.

And yes, it has everything to do with whatabouterry – you are defending your viewpoint by bringing up examples of unrelated issues.

But you’re knowingly running the risk of killing other peoples children? If you do, you are guilty of manslaughter.

Now, why does the state not have a right to legislate against that – but the right to legislate for many other child protection issues?

None of you have a damn leg to stand on.

The state can’t tell everyone to have a medical procedure done, it would go against their human rights for starters. The state can only interfer with medical issues when its in the best interest of the child/person. the risk involved in not getting a vaccine isn’t great enough to get the state to intervene. If they could do such a thing then they would steralise people to stop the growth of idiots which would probably have ment wouldn’t have been born 😉

By the same token, educated people in power have decided not enforce vaccination.

Although they are beginning to legislate just that in the States hence my OP…

I just asked a question why not the same level of froth about pollution as vaccines.

You know, whether there is or isn’t needs to be outside the scope of this discussion.

At best, it derails the conversation (ie, you want to discuss pollution, go start a thread).

That aside, if the best argument you’ve got against something is to point out something else that’s worse, you’ve already lost the argument.

it would go against their human rights for starters.

Interesting point. Does an individual’s human rights trump a community’s human rights?

dannybgoode – Member

Although they are beginning to legislate just that in the States hence my OP…
yes, but americans are mostly stupid

if the best argument you’ve got against something is to point out something else that’s worse, you’ve already lost the argument.

I’m not arguing against vaccines, if you’d bothered to read the posts you’d know that though. Just curious as to why one subject involving unnecessary deaths / illness causes so much angst but another subject which causes more death and illness doesn’t.

Sounds like that might make for an interesting discussion. Why not start your own thread and find out. (-:

Quite a few Americans* are stupid which is why States are considering compulsory vaccination so their children and the wider community do not suffer for their stupidity.
The Human rights of the collective society general trump the Human Rights of the individual that is why imprisonment of criminals deportation etc is all Human Rights compliant not withstanding the anti’s misinformation.
* applies to other nationalities and people of know nationality too.

Yeah, noone ever goes on about pollution. I never hear a word about it.

I can’t figure out what is being discussed here.

The term ‘vaccination’ (presumably wrt children) is being bandied about by (I think) every poster, as if it’s an immutable object.
Diseases vaccinated against obviously vary by country to country, and within the UK the program attaches levels of recommendation.
So, if my children aren’t vaccinated against Hepatitis or Tuberculosis (both ‘recommended for at risk’ rather than ‘for all’) does that make me an idiot.
Or, because I’ve paid for my children to be vaccinated against Chickenpox (again, ‘recommended for at risk’ in this country, but part of the vaccination program in other countries, even mandatory in some) but you haven’t, does that make you an idiot?

I guess my point is that if healthcare professionals/governments/the UN etc can’t agree on a common program of essential childhood vaccines, it’s pretty unfair to revile a parent for making a decision to skip a vaccination.

Having said that, I think that parents should have a very very long hard think before skipping what’s on offer… 🙂

dannybgoode – Member
Although they are beginning to legislate just that in the States hence my OP…
yes, but americans are mostly stupid

Lots of countries (including in the EU) have mandatory vaccination programs.
Though these tend to be mainly the stupider ones, as you surmise.

The state can’t tell everyone to have a medical procedure done, it would go against their human rights for starters. The state can only interfer with medical issues when its in the best interest of the child/person. the risk involved in not getting a vaccine isn’t great enough to get the state to intervene. If they could do such a thing then they would steralise people to stop the growth of idiots which would probably have ment wouldn’t have been born

What this guy below said

The Human rights of the collective society general trump the Human Rights of the individual that is why imprisonment of criminals deportation etc is all Human Rights compliant not withstanding the anti’s misinformation.

Further more in response to this particular point below, the risk is high enough if it means that herd immunity may be compromised.

The state can only interfer with medical issues when its in the best interest of the child/person. the risk involved in not getting a vaccine isn’t great enough to get the state to intervene.

Keep trying to defend why your individual rights trump those of society though.

Or, because I’ve paid for my children to be vaccinated against Chickenpox (again, ‘recommended for at risk’ in this country, but part of the vaccination program in other countries, even mandatory in some) but you haven’t, does that make you an idiot?

I guess my point is that if healthcare professionals/governments/the UN etc can’t agree on a common program of essential childhood vaccines, it’s pretty unfair to revile a parent for making a decision to skip a vaccination.

No, because vaccinating for Malaria in the UK (when it becomes available) would be quite frankly stupid. I think you can work out why – the UN aren’t confused – they issue guidelines for different countries. Why does it matter that there is no blanket worldwide standard for vaccinations?

because I’ve paid for my children to be vaccinated against Chickenpox (again, ‘recommended for at risk’ in this country, but part of the vaccination program in other countries, even mandatory in some) but you haven’t, does that make you an idiot?

With respect, I’d suggest you read the rest of the thread.

Specifically,
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/compulsory-vaccination-of-children/page/2?replies=114#post-7021547