We too the “teach and learn” rather than “cotton wool wrap everything” route.

I’m all for that matt – and I do practise it a fair bit, as my kids’ knees will attest to – but some things come with a pretty good chance of death or very serious injury and need a bit of caution.

(And other would do the kids absolutely no harm but will cost you money – which is nearly as bad 😉 )

I emailed the socket cover link to my wife who is a social worker. She assesses parents for fostering and one of the many checks / requirements is that all sockets in the foster parents house must have socket covers. She has forwarded it to her superiors

We had a marble hearth too when ours were babies and toddlers, they survived. No harder than a couple concrete slab outside.

Adoption or fostering is the best way

One of the biggest hazards seemed to be fingers in doors so We’ve removed quite a few doors (3 little ones), lock on av / TV unit, speaker grills are zip tied on. IKEA do some rubber stick on corner bumpers which went on the underside of the kitchen table and corners of coffee table.

The plug socket link – we decided not to use them as I knew the good inbuilt systems of sockets…

Every nursery I go to has them – the classic lack of knowledge and some ‘it *must* be safer to have a product that locks/pads/covers’ approach.

Sorry, but it fails kids long term, even if for a few months you need to be more involved in the kids play…

I agree some risks are out kids face come with serious consequences. My 14 year old cycled on a dark road this morning to do his paper round. Huge risk. I am confident of him doing this and behaving well, as he learned to walk on pavements as a toddler, grew through the running of into the road stage, and learned to cross roads well. Since little, he had learned behavior and responsibility around roads.

In a couple of years I have to let him step into a car, in the driver’s seat…

Sorry, but most of the pad, lock and cover approach is misplaced in making things safer AND in preparing kids for life.

I had a gas fire that looked like a log burner. Friends came round with young kids, one of them asked me if that was a real fire.

Obviously I said no, within a breath he’d pressed a flat palm to the glass.

To the day we moved out there was a perfect handprint etched onto the glass complete with fingerprints.

😯

Every nursery I go to has them – the classic lack of knowledge

To be fair the folk running the nursery may be fully aware of the argument against the covers, but face inspection from people who aren’t (see cheers_drive’s post) and also visits from parents who aren’t.

For my part, I am aware of the anti-cover argument but I just disagree with it. Though having said that I am not fastidious about covers, because I understand the built-in safety.

Sorry, but it fails kids long term, even if for a few months you need to be more involved in the kids play…

I think that’s making unfair accusations matt.

You are arguing for kids learning independence and at the same time you seem to be suggesting there that parents need to be in the same room with them at all times.

I could be “involved in the kids play” by playing with one kid in her room whilst the little one is happily playing with her toys on her own in her room.

If the little one hears the postman and makes a break for the stairs then I’m glad I’ve got a stair gate.

Which is clearly an incorrect answer 😕

In what way do you disagree with it?

Don’t bother. They’ll learn. Obv keep sharp knives out the way, chemicals hidden etc. Our boy just didn’t do anything like that. Our 19 month old daughter is more interested on climbing – over the sofa, onto chairs, up on the kitchen table.

I did install a child proof catch on the tv cab to stop her getting to the amp, but after some serious pulling, she broke in.

The cutting grapes in half thing – just make sure you cut them length ways else there’s no point as they still have the required choking diameter!

Other than that my advice would be the obvious stuff – chemicals out of the way, ensure big heavy furniture can’t topple, fit stair gates and accept that the sproglet will inevitably injure them self to some degree at some point.

Oh and check that you can unlock the bathroom door quickly when sprog locks themselves inside (we have to keep a spoon on the landing as the locks emergency slot thing is too thin for a coin)

with the issue around plug socket covers being unnecessary – does this also apply to adapters/extension? i.e. are the sockets on those also subject to the same safety requirements?

In what way do you disagree with it?

Well… I think they do make some valid points on that site, and I complete agree that some of the plug covers they show are terrible and make things worse (i.e. the ones that don’t actually cover properly)
And I agree that UK plug and socket design are pretty safe by design.

BUT…

I think they stray into hyperbole sometimes and it undermines their argument to me.

For example:

At the start they say: “A myth invented by socket cover suppliers is that children can put their fingers into unprotected sockets!”

That’s never a myth I’ve heard. My concern is the kids sticking conductive objects in there, fingers are way too big.

And that’s their concern too, because they show this picture:

which I agree is a *shocking* design flaw. But if a kid can ram a paper clip in there then…

..there is no real lip on the top of that shutter so a determined kid could easily get past that with a paperclip or other small metal object (bobby pin for instance) without anything in the earth hole.

And the core argument seems to be that kids could remove the plug covers, then force them in upside down, then put something in the live terminal and flick the switch.

Which yes, I agree, is a risk. But if the kid is resourceful enough to find something metallic that will fit in the live terminal then it seems pretty likely that they can find something (metallic or not) that could be put in the earth terminal and depress the shutter the tiny amount required to get something past it. A pen or pencil would do, maybe even a crayon.

Thinking about myself as a kid who liked to take things apart, the shutter mechanism is exactly the kind of small mechanical action that would fascinate me – so I’d be that kid sat there cramming pen lids into the earth terminal to watch it work.

So basically, I agree with a lot of what they say, but disagree with the conclusion. I use socket covers on some sockets, but I made sure they properly cover and are a good tight fit that is a ballache to remove (to my wife’s annoyance).

And yes ultimately, now that my kids are getting old enough to understand, education about the risks is probably more important than all that.

with the issue around plug socket covers being unnecessary – does this also apply to adapters/extension? i.e. are the sockets on those also subject to the same safety requirements?

If they’re proper approved ones (ie legal to sell in the UK) then yes it does apply.

I suppose it’s possible that you might be able to get an illegal one – more likely at least than a modern house being wired illegally – but it’s still pretty unlikely.

The only potential issue is that it is possible to insert plugs upside down in the earth socket and opening the shutters on some extension leads – even on BS approved ones (I’ve just checked the one I have here with a kitemark and it’s possible on that). That should be impossible on wall sockets.

The only potential issue is that it is possible to insert plugs upside down in the earth socket and opening the shutters on some extension leads – even on BS approved ones (I’ve just checked the one I have here with a kitemark and it’s possible on that).

I was pretty sure that was the case, but I didn’t have one handy to try.

The extension leads in the kids rooms all have socket covers in the extra sockets – because they are under the bed, so prime kiddie hiding and tinkering with stuff they shouldn’t space.

Plus the covers keep all the fluff, crumbs and debris out the sockets which probably has no safety benefit but stops them getting wrecked 🙂

Helpful thanks.

I am undecided on this. GrahamS makes valid points but I understand the argument for not using them. They also take away the temptation for the child – wherever there is hole the child may look to ram something in there.

GrahamS makes valid points

Oh sweet baby cheeses…

“GrahamS is not a qualified electrician or child safety expert. Any statements made by GrahamS should be regarded as opinion only. GrahamS takes no responsibility for any harm or damages that may occur to your child if you follow his opinion. No animals were harmed in the production of this comment. The value of your child may go down as well as up. Objects in the mirror may be uglier than they appear.”

I’m not convinced they could – there’s quite a strong spring and no gap to work with, so they’d be using friction on the face of the shutter. I’ve just tried with a (unplugged) extension lead and couldn’t get past the shutters like that.

Which yes, I agree, is a risk. But if the kid is resourceful enough to find something metallic that will fit in the live terminal then it seems pretty likely that they can find something (metallic or not) that could be put in the earth terminal and depress the shutter the tiny amount required to get something past it. A pen or pencil would do, maybe even a crayon.

In which case they’re probably resourceful enough to remove the cover (yes even ones which are a tight fit) and use that to help them.

Fundamentally what we’re talking about here is whether the child can defeat the shutters, and I’m unconvinced that a plug cover makes that harder.

I’ve just tried with a (unplugged) extension lead and couldn’t get past the shutters like that.

Yeah I suspect it is very dependent on the exact implementation but certainly the one they show as an example doesn’t seem to have much of a lip at the top (look at the open side) and there is a gap noticeable on the closed side. I reckon you’d probably get something in there with a bit of jiggling and force.

I’ll give it a try when I get home and report back.

In which case they’re probably resourceful enough to remove the cover (yes even ones which are a tight fit) and use that to help them.

Agreed, but the cover has also hopefully bought a few more valuable “little Bobby is suspiciously quiet” minutes, or as medders said, might remove the temptation in the first place. So I think it is more of a balance that they suggest.

The plastic plug covers can be pulled out by a small child and left on the floor to stand on. Its a similar pain to standing on lego.

Or the plastic cover can be turned round and the longer earth pin can still be pushed into the socket leaving the safety shutters on the plug open..

And also Grapes. You choke on one of them and you are a gonner. Need to be halved first.

Halves can be still be choke hazard if they wedge in the wrong way, quarters better if they are little. We just did the usual really, child lock on the cupboard with cleaning stuff. Nothing really breakable in the rest of the cupboards low dowm, stair gates. We never lagged pipes but did some foam stuff on the edge of stone heath. He does just pull it off though. TV rod thingy that goes at the back to stop it being tipped over was a good one. He’s contantly messing with the tv but he can’t move it.

Holly berries in the garden has been a tricky one but he seems to have learnt to leave them for the birds but he was constantly trying to put them in his mouth.

This issue has come up before and got a bit heated 😳 . My view remains that plugs and sockets in this country are sold to a well tested safety standard which makes it a legal requirement to manufacture to that standard. socket covers which are marketed as a safety device don’t have any standard to conform to and thus need no testing. Of course you can overcome the safety features with a certain amount of determination and skill but there is always a way round any safety system (i’ve seen this in industrial setting waaaay to many times where interlocks etc have been deliberately defeated). covers in themselves may not present an increased risk but in my opinion they dont improve the safety in any significant way and introduce a potential method of defeating the safety design of the socket. With regard to extension leads… i’m not a fan, they use a bit of a legal loophole at the moment which allows them to present a much higher danger of the shutters being defeated. I dont use them at home or work for this reason and also because they are far to easy to damage and misuse (daisy chains etc). The only thing we used when the kids were small were stair gates which were a pretty obvious safety device, that was pretty much it… they seemed to survive!.

the worst problem I found was the smeared gunk on the TV. Not technically a safety issue granted.

I childproofed the TV by bellowing at them way out of all proportion to the offence or my normal level of losing my sh*t with them (I normally leave being the telling-off parent to the wife) when they were touching it/about to touch it/whacking a random toy on it. Put the fear of god into them – they never touched again and we are all happy as a result.

Other things – I am finding it pointless beyond the bear minimum when my youngest (20mnths) loves diving off stuff (regardless of height/soft landing). Yesterday he decided to launch himself off his brother’s bed onto the floor. I was sat opposite – and reacted by sticking a leg out to try and break his fall. Unfortunately, it was a poor dive and he caught the edge of the bed and bounced off – the revised trajectory putting him on a collision course with my incoming foot. So in effect I ended up kicking him in the face. Luckily no harm done (I was wearing old-man slippers, trying to absorb the impact anyway and it was just his cheek).

In summary – the little b*ggers do their level best to damage themselves. So we just have stairgates, a lock on the cleaning products cupboard, stay alert and hope.

Thinking about myself as a kid who liked to take things apart, the shutter mechanism is exactly the kind of small mechanical action that would fascinate me – so I’d be that kid sat there cramming pen lids into the earth terminal to watch it work.

And the parent with responsibility for the child is where for the 10 mins while this happens?

“I wasn’t watching my child as I was in the other room chatting to my luvvies, but the plug cover is *clearly* to blame for them electrocuting themselves.

And the parent with responsibility for the child is where for the 10 mins while this happens?

As I said before matt you seem to be playing both sides here.

You are arguing for kids to be given independence and greater freedom to make their own mistakes and learn from them – and then saying they should be supervised 24/7 in case they hurt themselves.

How do you balance that out?

I wasn’t watching my child as I was in the other room chatting to my luvvies…

Or maybe I was in the other room playing with the other child? Or possibly even doing some housework?

Quick experiment at home for the sake of this thread:
Normal wall socket, kitemarked plug.

😯

How do you balance that out?

Agreed I am being provocative.

Supervising does not mean holding our doing from doing anything… “Light touch”

We had stair gates and that was it.

Everything else they get told not to, or they do it and learn by their mistakes

This for us too.

The disadvantage to just using stair gates was my wife seriously injured herself on ours when rushing around the house without thinking and friends fell down the stairs with the little one having tripped over the small floor bar. Better off with nothing in that case maybe?!

Yeah the stair gates with trip bars are lethal. I very nearly took a header down a friends stairs after catching one. Not a good design. My stair gate is literally a gate that is screwed to the wall, no trip bar.

Don’t worry to much about sockets the circuit breakers will kick in.
For ours stair gates and a foam thing to stop the kitchen door slamming when the back door was open. That’s it!

think they get worse when get beyond toddler and get a bit mad when playing with friends:

2nd attaching any furniture that can be climbed on to the wall

soft foam things that stop doors being slammed on fingers

window stays to make it hard to fully open them

attachments to any blind pulls

no cacti

no cacti

Poison risk or just a bit prickly?

“Poison risk or just a bit prickly?”

a lot prickly – maybe OTT as had a niece that needed a lot of help but if a kid grabs a cactus you’ve got a few hours in non priority A&E to look forward to

Okay thanks. Thought I better check.
Our cacti are too small for prickles to be a major issue.

Our little ball of energy and chaos is into everything.

We have stair gates top and bottom, locks on the cupboards and have moved the cleaning products elsewhere. My other half fitted rubber corner protectors but he just pulls them off.

He’s monkey for climbing stuff though but not very good at getting back down on his own! The bookcase is a favourite as is the sideboard near the sofa.

We have the same problem with a granite fireplace with point edges. I fitted this in about 4 minutes and it’s definitely saved a few bad blows to the head:

Ours is a dark brown which blends much better with the dark wood floors but I can’t see it for sale in that colour.

Just plain old tape-backed sticky stuff to hold it in place so there’ll probably be some time with some solvent when it comes off.