Canyon 15% more expensive in UK than Europe!

So thread full of people wishing we had joined the Euro! :roll:

Surely Canyon UK is just few bods who look after warranty claims etc. rather than a another company

My quick attempt saw me booted straight to a sterling price as soon as I changed the delivery address scotroute, that said it may have changed back with a German billing address but I lacked one of those to try with.

The whole currency exchange issue is a nightmare for businesses. One year a company I worked for had the whole of our UK profits written off by currency exchange losses in the US. You learn never to hedge currency, and just deal with it month to month.

Eh? This is exactly the reason you hedge. It creates a ‘known’, rather than an ‘unknown’ (gamble). At a global company I worked for in the past not hedging a transaction was a disciplinary offence.

Don’t Canyon ship their bikes from Germany? I wouldn’t have thought it was legal under European rules to deliberately charge more in another member state other than for differences in postage and VAT which are negligible. Take them to the European court of Justice…………..

ampthill – Member
So thread full of people wishing we had joined the Euro!

Surely Canyon UK is just few bods who look after warranty claims etc. rather than a another company

yup (not a joke)

I wouldn’t have thought it was legal under European rules to deliberately charge more in another member state

The closest parallel that I’m aware of would be airlines, its often cheaper to book identical flights from a different country than your own (regardless of currency). The EU directive 1008/2008/EC says (amongst other thins) the airlines can-not prevent you booking your flight through the website of a different country (say BA.ie instead of BA.com) but they are fully entitled to charge different prices based on which site you use. [internet cost traps is I believe how they word it, and its the trap/non-optional part they take umbrage with not the cost differential]

The logical extension of that is the best you could “demand” in terms of equality in retail is that company X runs a site for each locality, only delivers nationally from each site, but then allows you to order from [companyX].de for delivery in Germany regardless of your location but then you have to arrange onward delivery by yourself.

In practice I think for retail it would be too easy to argue there are different costs in delivery/product (Right hand rear brake any one?) obviously not present when issuing an E-ticket for a flight which will fly from A to B regardless of whether my ticket is issued via a website notionally linked to location A,B or C.

there are plenty of industries (cars for instance) where territory specific pricing is common place (a quick glance at the VW sites in .co.uk and .de shows the same* golf GTI cabriolet works out is about £30.5k vs 33.5eur,

Since you can only obligate company X not to discriminate on the basis of nationality (meaning that effectively they’re bound to sell to you regardless of your nationality [not quite the same thing wrecker but beyond semantics is pretty much the same in practice and pointless of me to argue otherwise]) they only have to offer me the same treatment, i.e. delivery in Germany or buy through our UK/Spanish/Zulu subsidiary who will deliver to UK Spanish or Zulu-land addresses.

I spoke at length with Canyon’s UK Sales Manager today in an attempt to get some movement on the GBP price of a bike I want to order. Absolutely nothing doing. Despite his admission that the conversation is getting more commonplace, he is powerless to act, cannot discount the GBP price (even though in reality I wasn’t asking for discount, I was simply asking not to be penilised) and can only relay messages from disgruntled UK based customers back to HQ.

I’d already dropped out that I have friends in several mainland European countries and his suggestion was that I had my bike shipped to them and forwarded to me at a cost of £30 or so. His other suggestion was to order for pick-up in Koblenz, fly to Frankfurt or Cologne, get the Train and spend the day at the Canyon Centre, testing riding, being measured up etc.

To be fair to him, his bosses are asking him to sell bikes in the UK for 13-15% more than his colleagues in the other 13 Support Centres across Europe and he is having to advise UK based customers to go to his internal competitors, I’m no salesman but that must be rather annoying.

He did stress that the bikes still represent exceptional value against their competitors to which I hole heartily agreed but by having your second largest market uncompetitive against your own brand in a neighbouring country is a bit of an own goal by Canyon HQ.

Anyway, I’m getting mine delivered on the mainland.

Thanks very much for your post Mr McGroo – very helpful!

I’m just wondering, can you still pay via a UK bank account if its being delivered abroad or does the money have to come from the same place its being delivered?

Hmmm, I’m no competition (antitrust) lawyer but this sounds like it might be in conflict with the main EU treaty (Treaty of Rome), article 81 of which is pasted below. This is the law which has been used against various cartels.

Sounds a bit like artificially partitioning the EU common market and possibly price fixing, especially if Canyon UK is a separate entity from Canyon DE. Maybe tell Canyon you’ll give the EU Commission a call if they don’t offer you a genuine EU conversion rate or allow you to pay in Euros.

Article 81:
1. The following shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market: all agreements between undertakings, decisions by associations of undertakings and concerted practices which may affect trade between Member States and which have as their object or effect the prevention, restriction or distortion of competition within the internal market, and in particular those which:

(a) directly or indirectly fix purchase or selling prices or any other trading conditions;

(b) limit or control production, markets, technical development, or investment;

(c) share markets or sources of supply;

(d) apply dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage;

(e) make the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts.

Good point Jamz, didn’t think about that one, I’ll let you know when I try to place my order.

Another point the guy made which answers one of the questions raised here is that apparently Canyon have exceeded the legal sales threshold for dealing in non-local currency hence delivery to the UK requires GBP. Don’t know what this law is, just repeating what I was told.

Overall though I think Canyon are being pretty inflexible. Obviously they want to protect themselves against currency fluctuation but even when the prices were set last August they were steeped in favour of the Euro. I did make the point in an earlier email to Canyon that any moderately educated person buying from a direct-sell manufacturer would expect currency fluctuations and pay whatever was required at the time of purchase. I don’t make a habit of checking prices but last week Rose were selling bikes at very realistic and up-to-date UK prices equivalent to €1.30/£ which would suggest that they track currency fluctuations. Seems the proper way to do it to me.

Overall though I think Canyon are being pretty inflexible

Other bikes are available.

If i buy one when im in Belgium from the store with my UK card it has to be charged in euro doesn’t it. I wonder if theyd ship to uk for me ;)

What would you be saying if GBP had fallen against EUR rather than the reverse?

If you choose to set prices in a given currency then you can’t go changing them all the time – you take a position and either you sell fewer but with a larger profit margin or more but with a lower profit margin, depending on which way the currencies move. Such is life!

http://www.vineyards-direct.com/vineyards-direct/vineyards_direct.htm

If they store wine they should be able to store a bike box …. Plus they sell wine win win

Don’t know that it helps but here’s the email I had from them last week;

Dear Dave,

thanks for your e-mail from the 13th february 2015 regarding the payment in our showroom.

We have a DHX Rockzone in Stealth in L for try and a express bike directly to go, too.

I have checked that and there should be no problem to purchase by credit card in our showroom.

I hope this information is helpful and has answered your question. Should you have any further questions or need additional assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

We hope to see you on a Canyon in the near future!

Best regards,

Peter Goeth
Servicecenter

Decided against it as money priorities are elsewhere at the moment but would have made for a nice afternoon, I’m told Koblenz is a nice town too. Might hire a LWB Transit in the summer and take orders……..(not really, CBA)

Chief, peoples issues are that as an internet-based seller they are exposed to the world wide nature of the web, people are less critical (but only just…) of companies such as Santa Cruz, Specialized etc. If I can ONLY buy online, from a German manufacturer and direct seller, why am I penalised for buying their product using Sterling? The other issue is they used to have a floating price based on the daily exchange rate.

And I thought that I was the last person in Britain that still thinks that without a common currency, you can’t have a common market… still, money to be made in the currency markets… even if it adds costs for companies who actually want to trade goods rather than financial services…

Mountain out of a molehill here. No ones complaining when you can buy stuff cheaper from the German bike shops.

Go and check the price of Santa Cruz in the US vs what they cost in the UK

Try and work this through. Far East bikes are paid for in $ I would imagine. Euro falls against the $ so Canyon prices have gone up quite a lot. Instead if them paying $1000 they are paying $1150 as an example.

So bike arrives in Germany and it has cost a lot more than it should have.

£ and $ are the same as before. So in theory bike going direct from Far East to UK should still cost same and not be cheaper.

If they sell at new £/€ exchange rate they loose another 15% or so.

Said earlier that cross curry trading is a nightmare. Here they are double cross currency trading.

No wonder thay have made a bad decision. Probably only one they could make. It resists sales and reduces double loss. They write the UK market off.

Brian

Or just serve the UK from Germany as they were before. All in euros, no need to mess around with £.

They write the UK market off.

:lol:

Go and check the price of Santa Cruz in the US vs what they cost in the UK

already addressed that point – not the same thing as with Canyon you’re buying from the same place (German-based direct seller) via the same medium (world wide web). AFAIK British Canyon Guy doesn’t carry UK-based stock that he uses to supply you that’s been bought in advance and had to hedge exchange rates, he’s just a locally based flesh-and-blood rep.

Mountain out of a molehill here. No ones complaining when you can buy stuff cheaper from the German bike shops.

those prices that vary in competitiveness with changes in the exchange rate, you mean?

They are obviously trying to stiff UK buyers.

If their $ buying price has increased, they need to put up their Euro selling price universally, if necessary. Then straight daily convert to GBP like what they used to do.

Instead of using the easily duped UK buyers to prop up their increasing costs and flagging Eurozone sales.

They are obviously trying to stiff UK buyers.

Obviously. That’s what companies aim to do, focus on a particular nationality and try to screw them over.

Or they try to run their business in a profitable and sustainable manner.

None of us know how Canyon have hedged their GBP / Euro position in the short or long term. They might have made a really, really foolish long term bet on the currency position and now be in a position where they can’t afford to reduce the GBP prices.

Or they might just be rubbing their hands with glee as they are selling just as many bikes as they were before the currency movements kicked in, and are making more money as a consequence.

The retail price of the main brands in the UK haven’t changed since the currency slide, so why should Canyon reduce their prices in our market, effectively giving away profit to customers?

The value proposition to a UK buyer is the same today as it was 4 months ago. Canyon are under no obligation to piss their profits away if they don’t want to.

Edit

BoardinBob – Member

Just had a look at the site.

Torque DHX is £1799 under the British site

Torque DHX is €2099 under the German site which works out as £1,547 at today’s FX rate.

So its cheaper to buy that bike in the UK

???

If their $ buying price has increased, they need to put up their Euro selling price universally, if necessary.

I expect a big portion of what they buy is probably € based.

was under the impression that € was pretty much the default currency for bike bits in EU.

The retail price of the main brands in the UK haven’t changed since the currency slide

The retail price of the main brands in the Eurozone haven’t changed since the currency slide either

What’s this thing about currency hedging? Why should they have to do this at all? The bike is ordered from and shipped from Germany. I can understand that they could expect the customer to take the hit on any currency exchange fee if their system does everything in Euros but that should be for the customer to pay direct to their bank.

Most businesses will try to minimise the impact of factors outside of their control. For companies selling into different markets, currency volatility is one of those factors.

No-one knows whether Canyon have or haven’t got substantial long or short term currency hedges in place – for all we know they might be completely exposed to international currency volatility. But I suspect their not, as they will be undoubtedly buying components in USD and potentially other currencies, and then selling in a variety of currencies too.

If you were selling products into Greece today, would you want them to be paying the same Euro price you quoted them in December, or would you be putting the price up? You’d get the same Euros, but less GBP when the currency is banked in the UK. So would you put up the price? What if that priced your product out of the reach of the consumers over there, so in the end you got no sale at all?

None of us know how Canyon have hedged their GBP / Euro position in the short or long term. They might have made a really, really foolish long term bet on the currency position and now be in a position where they can’t afford to reduce the GBP prices.

Or they might just be rubbing their hands with glee as they are selling just as many bikes as they were before the currency movements kicked in, and are making more money as a consequence

they don’t need to hedge on currency, they can sell at a modulating rate or just in Euro’s

What do we want?

Cheaper top end bikes.

When do we want them?

Now, or within reasonable shipping time from Germany. Bike-discount.de take around 3 days, so lets use that as a baseline.

They are obviously trying to stiff UK buyers.

If their $ buying price has increased, they need to put up their Euro selling price universally, if necessary. Then straight daily convert to GBP like what they used to do.

Instead of using the easily duped UK buyers to prop up their increasing costs and flagging Eurozone sales.

As BrianP said the Euro is in a hole so they buy from people using a weak Euro and sell in GBP with a weak Euro so the prices go up twice effectively. Ultimately the UK market is not so price sensitive so off they go with a GBP increase. If you don’t like, don’t buy. They’ll be crying into their Riesling I’m sure.

It’s evil, pure and simple. Especially when something like a £600+ bicycle is a basic human right, not just a frivolous plaything.

It seems to me the question here isn’t why they can or can’t but more why should they?
If canyon are anything like most retail companies they price the bikes at £X and €y, they price them to hit a price point, say “under 2500, they achieve this by pinching the costs elelsewhere, be it making frames in Taiwan as opposed to the UK, using last year’s model finishing kit, killing less elephants or, in this case, cut out the middle man.
Direct selling is about maximising profit and reducing cost, it’s not about giving you a better deal, that’s a happy coincidence that let’s them sell more units and turn more profit.
Their competitors haven’t changed in price, so canyon still offer a competitively priced bike, still under their 2500 price point and they can pitch that in magazine articles, advertising etc. “the new canyon strive, cheaper today than yesterday day but maybe much more expensive tomorrow if the €rate changes ” is a lot less enticing than “the new strive £2499” and frankly “the new strive, still 2000 cheaper than the santa cruz what not with the same kit” is what they’re going for and is still true, the only thing is comparatively more than is the its self.

bike-discount.de seems a much more honest and flexible offering.

Header, set language, country, currency.

Nice.

Happy to buy from there again. Canyon, one more reason not to buy from there imo.

???

I was in the process of typing more but messed up. I was going to say its all down to fx movement. The €/£ rate is very high at the moment. It’ll be interesting to see if the rate drops back to 1.20-ish, will they change the GBP price

This thread is an advert for a single currency…

…but not necessarily the Euro. Since 1997, I have been proposing the Worldo. :)

3 of us are ordering Strives and are planning a trip to Germany, we will have to cram the bikes in a car though as the van is twice the price on the ferry.

What’s the best way to take advantage of the exchange rate ?

Pay on card at the showroom ? Or exchange GBP for euros over here before we set off ?

Check your CC exchange rate.

I don’t get why they just don’t sell only in Euros and let people take the hit on their banks exchange rate.