Canyon 15% more expensive in UK than Europe!

Looking at a Canyon road bike. Disappointed that buying in sterling currently 250 – 300 euros more than buying in the euro zone on the same £1300 bike. Root cause is the strong pound with Canyon having fixed their prices for 2015 in sterling. Contacted Canyon asking if I could buy in euros or if they would consider a 10% discount code in which case they would still be making a profit over a non UK sale. Got what appeared to be a generic pre written “UK buyers asking about higher UK price'” reply.

Realise still a good buy but somehow puts me off buying from them.

Am I being unreasonable? Anyone found a way round this?

Does VAT not play a part in it

Sounds like you need a friend in Europe!

How about a trip to Koblenz and have a proper try, then pay in euro’s?

You can’t pay in euros?

Is that something to do with the euro having gone from 1.20 to 1.32 ish in exchange rate ….
That’s life – nothing stops you from buying in Germany …

Could almost go to Germany to pick it up for the extra but not quite that much of a pedant (quite)

Not sure which European law it would be against but it doesn’t sound like a single market to me. If you can use one of those currency swap services you should able to pay in Euros. I cant see how they can refuse.
I have been looking at the same thing. Euro Sterling rate is very favourable at the moment.

Stuff that as I just checked Ryan air £18 each way plus train/taxi from Frankfurt to koblenz is still cheaper than delivery. I guess the fee for bike on a plane will eat the rest and some of the exchange rate saving, but still quids in.

German VAT is 19%, UK 20%, so that has no bearing.

The difference will be down to them taking a view on currency when they set prices for the year, relative markets, supply prices and possibly hedging (given their size).

It would be relatively easy to pay in Euros using, say, transferwise to do the bank transfer at a v good exchange rate and then forward ship the bike.

On the face of it it’s a little bit inflexible, but you cant expect companies to re-price all the time due to currency volatility.

Would we all be offering to pay extra if the pound had got weaker?

It’ll be down to their uk operation – you used to be able to pay in euros. I can remember comparing the 2 rates when I bought my strive a couple of years ago, but it was only £20 or so difference iirc.
Obviously with a uk company to run there are costs to meet there so it wouldn’t do them much good to cut them out.

Ryan air £18 each way plus train/taxi from Frankfurt to koblenz

and conveniently, what Ryanair calls “Frankfurt” is actually closer to Koblenz than “Frankfurt” Frankfurt!

don’t know about trains from there

if you paid in euros from a uk a/c there’d be a fee remembering you may need to do that twice.

make it a holiday, and the price/savings merges in to the holiday price.

Interesting… I need to go to Germany for a few days.
Would they let you buy there and then ship it to the UK later? As I’ll not be back in the country for a few weeks.

I looked at buying a canyon years ago, just as they were becoming big

I’m pretty sure the GBP price changed daily according to the rates

You are their customer so I can’t see why they wouldn’t want to meet your needs. And going in any bike shop is cool and you get to size up your bike in person!

I’m pretty sure the GBP price changed daily according to the rates

They haven’t budged this year.

Can the germans legally refuse to sell to you?
Have a look/go at the french site, see what they could do?
A TOTR Strive is £500 more! Canyon UK can go **** themselves!

Probably what they consider
a) Pays for the UK bloke/office
b) What we’ll stand to pay

If you were feeling entrepreneurial, there’s a business to be run buying bikes in Germany and shipping over here if the price difference is that large.

If you were feeling entrepreneurial, there’s a business to be run buying bikes in Germany and shipping over here if the price difference is that large.

By the time you take a profit off the top, and set aside enough cash to cover any warranty issues (there would be no manufacturer warranty for the end purchases as they are technically selling second hand), I suspect it would be a pretty poor business.

Can the germans legally refuse to sell to you?

Yes, in the same way as any shop you walk in to can choose whether or not they wish to deal with you.

The whole currency exchange issue is a nightmare for businesses. One year a company I worked for had the whole of our UK profits written off by currency exchange losses in the US. You learn never to hedge currency, and just deal with it month to month.

So, Canyon UK management have made a seriously bad judgement is not run with current exchange rates. They were just trying to stabilise prices, and avoid higher UK prices if the rates went the other way. They now have to reappraise their decision and change it. They have to. An extra layer of distribution/magement is getting in the way of their sell direct ethos.

Wait, aren’t we in Europe too! This calls for joke:
If you’re American before you go to the toilet and you’re American after you go to the toilet what are you while you’re doing you’re toilet – You’re-a-peein’

^ Last place of work for the first year charged in $, salaries paid in $ so all ok.

Part way through the year government had passed a law stating that all companies had to charge in local currency for services.

Summertime came, and the local currency crashed losing 33% on the dollar.

Salaries still paid in dollars, school fees paid in local currency, oh dear, what a cock up.

Cost the owners a fortune.

been living in Aus’ for a couple of years – the UK still not joined the Euro? 😆

Yes, in the same way as any shop you walk in to can choose whether or not they wish to deal with you.

I believe it depends on the reasons though does it not?

Wrecker, I believe I can refuse to sell to you for whatever reason, such as I don’t like your face, (obviously difficult to make this judgement over the Internet but odds are good that anyone on the Internet is a fat balding socially reclusive 40 something male) the issue comes from what equality laws and the like that reason may breach rather than legal obligations to sell but IANAL.

As for

They now have to reappraise their decision and change it. They have to.

I’m pretty sure they don’t, almost everyone in retail hedges in this way, you appraise at worst case and if it gets *much* worse you reappraise but almost everything you buy in retail is imported somewhere along the line but the price doesn’t fluctuate, be it French wine, Polish sausage or German bikes the price you pay will stay the same month on month because they hedge when they price at the beginning of the year/month/whatever

Their prices won’t go up in the UK as we run toward the election and the pound losses ground against the euro either.

Also you should bear in mind they may have already bought and paid for stock for UK sale months ago when the rate wasn’t so favourable.

As the B&B owners who refused the gay couple the opportunity to stay, there are restrictions on the reasons you can refuse to contract with someone.

Every shop owner in the land has the right to refuse to sell something, but they can’t refuse to sell something only to transgender women, gay men, to a particular race etc under the Equality Act 2010. They could refuse to sell to anyone with an “E” in their name, but probably not to everyone with “Singh” in their name.

If you went to Germany, the sale would be a retail sale under German retail laws, so you’d almost certainly be asked to pay only the local Euros price. Whether they would happily ship to the UK from the store is a different matter, but as you say a sale is a sale.

Even better, go to Macedonia where it seems Canyon prices their bikes even cheaper!

Wrecker, I believe I can refuse to sell to you for whatever reason, such as I don’t like your face,

Sexuality, Creed, religion, Sex?
I’m pretty sure that one of the main pillars of the EU is the open market. If a German company won’t sell to you because there is a UK dealer then that makes a mockery of it.

Sexuality, Creed, religion, Sex?

I can’t discriminate on any [of those] basis but that’s nothing to do with my right to refuse to sell to you.

Your recourse on that would be that by not making a sale I’m breaching equality laws, not that I’m obligated to sell to you.

In practice the difference is probably null in the above instances but in this case the point is you’d have to prove my refusal was on the basis of discrimination not say “because someone else does that [country] and we’ve agreed not to compete”

dangeourbrain, don’t believe you have any actual experience in cross currency trading.

So, you reckon they have lots of stock of unavailable carbon fatbikes do you?

I believe I can refuse to sell to you for whatever reason,

Not trying to labour the point, but this is obviously not right.

Anyway, will Canyon Germany or France sell to UK customers or not?

So, you reckon they have lots of stock of unavailable carbon fatbikes do you?

Just because it’s not made yet doesn’t mean they haven’t bought and agreed the price to be paid for it.

In reality I doubt bikes are bought in the same way as gas or iron ore but that doesn’t mean they’re not.

Regardless of my experience or otherwise Brian I’d have to ask when in the last 12 months you’ve bought something with a published GBP price and paid more or less for it than the published list price because of currency fluctuations?

How the customer facing end of retail works isn’t the same as how most business works.

dangeourbrain, your so full of ……

Canyon business model is direct selling. Simple they sell direct. From Europe. At Euro prices, till now. They have screwed up and could you possibly post on subjects you know something about.

Actually, what must be really difficult for Canyon is that their bikes are probably paid for in dollars. Presume they do buy Far East production? The fall of the euro against the dollar could wipe them out. It is possible the fall % is bigger than their margins.

Ok, they may have hedge their currency, but it would have taken a big gamble to do so. There is simply no way to know which way things will go. After burning their fingers, as my company did, it usually reverts to no speculation and stick to a couple of months cover just to pay up and coming bills.

As I said, big currency fluctuations are a nightmare. When the Euro falls apart after the Greek exit and Putin goes to war to take over the Baltic States we might have more to worry about than the price of Canyon bikes.

Anyway, will Canyon Germany or France sell to UK customers or not?

A cursory attempt would suggest not, least ways not without picking up the phone or getting on a plane. The website defaults to destination pricing subject to your delivery address, regardless of my navigation in German/€ and from a non uk ip address.

To be fair, there are many ways that companies will organise their overseas selling. Some will sell at a transfer price to their local subsidiaries (often, cf Starbucks) in a way which transfers profits from one country to another for tax reasons. Or for currency exchange reasons.
I too doubt that Canyon (Ger) sell to Canyon (UK), either as stock bought in advance or as stock at all, Canyon (Ger) sells to customers directly.
But there is no obligation for a company to sell to purchasers in different countries at the same price. Nor is there an obligation for a company to sell anything under a pricing mechanism which is “fair”.
If they want to make an excess profit from Euro / GBP currency exchange, that’s their choice. In theory, all other manufacturers who are based in the EU can sell into the UK to retailers / distributors at a lower price now, so UK prices could fall. That’s then a commercial risk that Canyon are taking by keeping their prices unaltered. Their choice.

When the Euro falls apart after the Greek exit and Putin goes to war to take over the Baltic States

and could you possibly post on subjects you know something about.

Joys of the Internet huh?

The fact is, your company got burnt, they (on the face of it) have not yet. As you rightly say the $/€ rate is likely to hurt but that said assuming they were liquid enough to do so I imagine they’ll have bought their dollars in advance to cover most of the costs – I assume most costs bar labour in Germany are $ -components/frames/web services etc and this year with so many elections in the € zone it’ll be a volatile year for the currency – though I doubt most people expected it to shift so much so fast.

In practice if as I expect, their costs are largely $ their UK sales price will be pegged to that any how not the euro retail price.

In either case though they will charge a £ price, which is not directly equivalent to the euro price for so long as it’s not costing them too dear, just like airlines, car manufacturers and the rest who sell in various markets. If it harpenden that costs us more and makes better profit then they’re not likely to change unless it drives their sales down.

As sporticus says only a couple of years ago Canyon used to vary the price based on the exchange rate daily, or as near as dammit. A mate watched for a month or so before buying an Ultimate CF and saved over 100 quid, and a change for the worse meant I ended up buying a UK sourced Orbea Aqua rather than a Canyon Roadlite, as that plus shipping stopped it being competitive.

Anyone got a mate in Ireland they can order and pay in Euro’s.

What happens if you go to the German site, add a UK address (it changes delivery cost) and then try to pay?