Ergo, my point being is that Christianity is used as an excuse to justify crimes perpetrated against people who have so far been Muslim

Sorry – you used Kosova as an example of Blair’s Christian wars in this regard. You are presumably ignorant of the fact that the UK’s role in Kosova was to assist a bunch of Muslims separate from a Christian nation and ethnically cleanse the minority Christians (and, as always, Gypsy/Roma) from the land. If there were war crimes committed in the “liberation” of Kosova, they were predominantly against Christian civilians: those living in Belgrade and Novi Sad who were killed in nato’s aerial attacks, or those living in Kosova who were killed, assaulted and cleansed on the ground.

Id wager that terrorist activity significantly correlates with religiosity, when was the last time you heard of an atheist suicide bomber?

[url=http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/10/18/it_s_the_occupation_stupid?print=yes&hidecomments=yes&page=full]Ahem[/url] they reckon its occupation of your country that’ll drive you to blow yourself and others up rather than religion.

Sorry – you used Kosova as an example of Blair’s Christian wars in this regard. You are presumably ignorant of the fact that the UK’s role in Kosova was to assist a bunch of Muslims separate from a Christian nation and ethnically cleanse the minority Christians (and, as always, Gypsy/Roma) from the land. If there were war crimes committed in the “liberation” of Kosova, they were predominantly against Christian civilians: those living in Belgrade and Novi Sad who were killed in nato’s aerial attacks, or those living in Kosova who were killed, assaulted and cleansed on the ground.

Do you not think our involvement in Kosovo was partly driven by Blairs naieve Catholic view of “just war”.

Ahem they reckon its occupation of your country that’ll drive you to blow yourself and others up rather than religion.

The evidence that I’ve seen is that religious violence is mostly linked to social deprivation, I guess a lot of occupied countries experience massive amounts of that. I’ll have to read the research presented in your link before I make any further comments.

Religious Hostilities Reach Six-Year High

I guess if Cameron regards “harrasment” as persecution, then he might be on to something.

The first factor is social distance between the occupier and occupied. The wider the social distance, the more the occupied community may fear losing its way of life. Although other differences may matter, research shows that resistance to occupations is especially likely to escalate to suicide terrorism when there is a difference between the predominant religion of the occupier and the predominant religion of the occupied.

Religious difference matters not because some religions are predisposed to suicide attacks. Indeed, there are religious differences even in purely secular suicide attack campaigns, such as the LTTE (Hindu) against the Sinhalese (Buddhists).

Rather, religious difference matters because it enables terrorist leaders to claim that the occupier is motivated by a religious agenda that can scare both secular and religious members of a local community

*cough* Religion is an enabler of violence *cough*

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge45R9qoW_Y[/video]

😀

Do you not think our involvement in Kosovo was partly driven by Blairs naieve Catholic view of “just war”.

That’s different from what you said before:

Christianity is used as an excuse to justify crimes perpetrated against people who have so far been Muslim

But in any case you’re just as wrong with your second attempt as with your first because the answer is still no.

But in any case you’re just as wrong with your second attempt as with your first because the answer is still no.

“Tony Blair viewed his decision to go to war in Iraq and Kosovo as part of a “Christian battle”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-courage-our-conniptions/201007/does-religious-belief-make-you-more-racist

and

http://www.policymic.com/articles/29397/religious-people-tend-to-be-more-racist-study-finds

“all religions offer a moral group identity, and so across world religions — including Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim, Judaism and Christianity — the religious in-group is valued over out-groups.” This notion is perhaps a basic human tendency, to value familiar social constructs over foreign or competing interests, often the driving force in tribalism and nationalism.

*cough* Religion is an enabler of violence *cough*

I never claimed religion was blameless, merely that you don’t have to believe in fairy stories to be convinced to get all explodey.

Religion does offer a group identity, yes, but so do other things. So given that people seek out group identities it seems reasonable to argue that they would find something else in the absence of religion.

If religion isn’t the main driver in convincing people to get all explodey…. then explain why occupations where by the differences between religious attitudes are not that great, have a tendency to not get so explodey.

Religion does offer a group identity, yes, but so do other things. So given that people seek out group identities it seems reasonable to argue that they would find something else in the absence of religion.

Then explain the relative calm experienced during the occupation of Japan and Germany? The 95 percent figure quoted by one of the above articles appears to me, to be related to the fact that we’ve mostly occupied very religious nations that have different religions to our own. If we’d invaded some Christian or less religious countries then we’d have a better control group for comparison.

Religion does offer a group identity, yes, but so do other things.

Which is why some cretins get all fighty about football. Luckily the tattoos are a warning signal to stay clear.

WWI and WWII were quite explodey iirc.

Then explain the relative calm experienced during the occupation of Japan and Germany?

By whom? The allies?

Yes, by the Allies. Also why have countries like Chechnya more violently opposed Russian influence in comparison to say Poland and the Ukraine etc during the cold war? There were the Lithuanian partisans but that’s all I can riff off the top of my head. That’s actually a question as I’m not sure of the answer myself.

Who knows why the allies occupied more peacefully than some? What is your point? Not sure here because there have been plenty of violent secular occupations and invasions. Not sure where you are going here.

Do you not think our involvement in Kosovo was partly driven by Blairs naieve Catholic view of “just war”.

It sounds a bit desperate to me to blame the Catholic Church for Blair’s behaviour in an attempt denigrate all religions.

Western foreign policy towards former Yugoslavia was molded by geopolitical considerations. Five weeks into the NATO bombing of Kosovo the head of the Catholic Church expressed serious reservations about the on going military operations.

“It is with profound affliction that I see the tragic situation that exists in different regions of Yugoslavia, and especially in Kosovo, worsen every day,” the Holy Father wrote.

Pope John Paul II denounces ‘ethnic cleansing’, rejects war in Yugoslavia

And in the case of Blair’s warmongering adventure in Iraq the leadership of the Catholic Church could not have been plainer in their opposition.

Pope urges Blair to avoid war

The Pope has made clear his opposition to war and recently met the Iraqi deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, and United Nations general secretary Kofi Annan.

In contrast many atheist British politicians fully supported Blair’s drive to war.

Today Blair’s single most outspoken critic on the international stage is Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who constantly harangues and criticises him and calls for his prosecution for war crimes, while many atheist world figures remain silent.

Blair should face war crimes trial over Iraq, says Desmond Tutu

By all means denounce Blair as a vile and loathsome warmonger (who incidentally had huge support from the non-church attending British population) but it is frankly ridiculous to blame organized religion for that.

And btw try to remember that Blair wasn’t a Catholic when he was PM.

Good post Ernie. Cheers.

Also why have countries like Chechnya more violently opposed Russian influence in comparison to say Poland and the Ukraine etc during the cold war?

Chechnya was never a country and the basmachi were marginal. Chechnya is exceptional as being an irredentist region and it can’t be explained by religion when many more Russian republics and subjects of the federation have majority non-Christian populations and did not rebel.

You’re facing the poverty of your one-eyed analysis.

Ernie, the gist is lost because he can’t get over

Chechnya was never a country.

You’re wasting your time mate. You can’t reason with these non religious radicals. 😆

Christ on a bendybus! He’s at it again!

In his third effort this week to highlight his own strong faith, the prime minister said he wanted to see a bigger role for religion in Britain as a Christian country and urged fellow believers to be more confident in spreading their views.

I believe we should be more confident about our status as a Christian country, more ambitious about expanding the role of faith-based organisations, and, frankly, more evangelical about a faith that compels us to get out there and make a difference to people’s lives

Well you’re certainly making a difference to peoples lives. Most really really wish you hadn’t though 🙄

Interesting isn’t it, you can be a “vaguely practicing” Christian “full of doubts” yet also evangelical about it. How does that work, you doorstep people, but only on major religious feasts and you say “Are you interested in hearing the word of god, well, I say god, actually maybe there isn’t actually a god, but I do like the hymns…”

Is Cameron not just playing politics he has rightly had a kicking from the church because of his anti the “nice but hard to do” bits of religion stance, i.e. his attacks on the welfare of the lower earners with benefits cuts bedroom tax etc his support of the usery of wonga and non tax paying companies. So he reaches out to the middle class church goers with this trite rubbish .

Are there many middle class churchgoers? Who exactly is convinced by this pish?

Perhaps he’s trying to rally some form of army in an attemp to have a few people that will put some backbone into defending what will be left of this country after Muslims have become the only people allowed to openly show their faith in schools, places of business and other public places.
After all, now all traces of Christian based influence have been removed from most of those areas and Islamic based practices are introduced in places like Birmingham while the population balance tips. We need some sort of plan. Obviously politics, the big society and integration aren’t working.

Perhaps he’s trying to rally some form of army in an attemp to…..

He’s forming an anti-Muslim army to fight against the islamification of Britain ?

But it already exists gears_suck :

Perhaps you could join ? You sound concerned.

Concerned about stupid people? Yes. Religious preferences, no.
You sound more concerned tbh. I was merely forming a hypothesis for debate.
Hope you’ve enjoyed being able to make your snide remark though. Well done!

You sound more concerned tbh. I was merely forming a hypothesis for debate.
Hope you’ve enjoyed being able to make your snide remark though. Well done!

What do I sound concerned about ?

And TBH I thought your claim that Britain is turning into a Muslim country which is banning Christianity was quite a “snidey” remark.

Well there you go…….funny ol’ world – innit ?

You can be arrested and put in prison now, just for saying you’re English.

Lol. I don’t think we are quite there yet grum. Funny ol’ world innit! All in the perception I suppose.
Edit: You sound concerned about edl and the like ernie. And so you should, but to label me in in that context? Yes that is ‘snide’ and frankly, offensive.

1. We have an established church in England and Scotland – the CoE and the CoS
2. Easter is the most important festival of both churches
3. The PM is recognising and respecting 1 and 2

What is the problem? Perfectly proper IMO. I would expect the head of a Muslim state to respect Ramadan etc ditto Yom Kippur etc in a Jewish state

Anyway a blessed Easter to all

(Much better than the council who apparently tried to ban a Passion Play on grounds that it might be a sex show!)

Obviously if you share his faith you will think it good.
If you dont you wont

What is the problem?

our leader believes an ancient myth that is not true is the main problem

The secondary one is he gets guidance from this non existent myth/entity in times of trouble.

People are free to believe what they want as thankfully you no longer kill us, well at least here, for not believing.

What is the problem?

It’s a bunch of ****, and doubly so coming from Cameron.

Ok, I see.

He said (reportedly): He told BBC Radio Norfolk he wanted Nancy, Arthur and Florence to understand that the festival was more than just “chocolate eggs”.

So he should have said (if I understand correctly): He told BBC Radio Norfolk he wanted Nancy, Arthur and Florence to understand that the festival was nothing more than “chocolate eggs” and day off work.

So much better…..let us bow to the altar of consumerism and leisure…..

What troubles me about what I see here from time to time is the intolerence and lack of respect for the views and beliefs of others. We happen to be in the middle of one of the most important Jewish festivals as well as one of the most important Christian ones. Let us respect those who are celebrating both and who find strength in their respective faiths at this time

1. We have an established church in England and Scotland – the CoE and the CoS
2. Easter is the most important festival of both churches
3. The PM is recognising and respecting 1 and 2

What is the problem?

1

1. We have an established church in England and Scotland – the CoE and the CoS
…
I would expect the head of a Muslim state to respect Ramadan etc ditto Yom Kippur etc in a Jewish state

You’ve rolled between these two statements like they’re the same thing; they aren’t. We have an established church sure, but we are not a Christian “state.” Our state allows freedom of choice of religion.

Rock up in an actual “Muslim state” like, oh, Saudi say, tell them you’re an atheist and you’re going to observe your tradition of drinking half a pint of Scotch on a Saturday night, see how far you get.

now all traces of Christian based influence have been removed from most of those areas

Can you give me an example of where this has actually happened, outside of scaremongering Daily Mail headlines? Only, whenever I’ve looked into these stories where local councils have reportedly renamed Christmas “wintereen” or some such so as not to offend Muslims, they’ve turned out either to be a all-conceived mistake which quickly got repealed, or a complete work of fiction.

even better cougar – makes you proud to be British.

we allow freedom of choice – tick
we have established church – tick (whether that is a good/bad thing is different story)
head of gov respecting the above – tick

All fine an dandy – as Jambalaya said +1

Time for a hot cross bun with coffee – now what is that cross there for?

What troubles me about what I see here from time to time is the intolerence and lack of respect for the views and beliefs of others. We happen to be in the middle of one of the most important Jewish festivals

What troubles me is the concept that someone’s belief systems should automatically command “respect” if only they really believe it a lot. Respect the person, sure, and tolerance follows naturally from that. But if someone thinks their Lord Nelson I’m not going to respect their belief, I’m going to think they’re a crackpot and suggest they go to see a mental health professional (or at the very least give them a few photographs of the Admiral and a mirror).

But anyway. That’s something I never quite understood; the Jews seem to be about the most hated demographic there is. Other groups over the years have gone after them time and again (I think I heard somewhere recently that the Russians are trying to build a master register of them all?) How come? What have the Jews done to piss everyone off? They always seemed fine to me, and the Orthodox Jews have the coolest dress sense (-: Why all the hate?