lifting your dead up

hooli may have quote of the day 🙂

I like to have a good mix of pure grumpy days and some with a brigther outlook, generally I’m thought of as grumpy though, although more often than not I’m just quiet and it is taken as grumpy.

Kryton isn’t depressed, he’s just a miserable sod today.

That’s what you think, you just don’t know me well enough. I went through proper diagnosed depression in 2001 after some serious issues of which I still bear mental scars. That (in my mind) has lead to my glass half empty and indecisive – not wanting to do the wrong thing – view of the world, but I’d like to change that.

I’d like to change that.

That might be unattainable. It might just be a case of learning to manage it effectively enough to get on with the basics.

Grumpiness and happiness are mutually compatible though. Complimentary even. I find its my general all round grumpiness that makes me happy

kryton57 – have you ever had a course in CBT? Talk to your GP about it. I found it very useful, even if only from the insight it gave me into the kinds of feelings I get, how common and well-recognised this mental state is and how you can challenge your thoughts.
Telling people to look on the bright side does not work I fear.

I can highly recommend SSRIs, I used to be quite tense and neurotic 24/7, but for the last 6 years have been far more chilled about everything, mainly down to one 20mg pill I take every day. Bloody brilliant invention…

Kryton
It’s a tough gig when you are wired different.
Find a plan that will work for your schematic.
Stick to the plan.

Good luck

I also think you need to look at your life and find the things that make you unhappy and do something about it

+1

Life is too short to just exist and be unhappy. If your marriage is a mess, either sort it out…or get divorced. If your job does your head in day after day, sort it out…. or get a new job. If you have a friend who continually lets you down, talk to them about it and try and change things… or move on and find new friends.

Sounds drastic perhaps, but often the things we endure and complain about are within our control to change, if we want to. Short term pain versus long term gain.

fasthaggis – Member
Kryton
It’s a tough gig when you are wired different.
Find a plan that will work for your schematic.
Stick to the plan.

Good luck

Thanks for the sentiment but lets nor feel sorry for me in this thread – I am very very fortunate in life generally and so much more than a lot of other people. I shouldn’t really be feeling this way at all but

wired different

well yes, maybe as Teasel says its just a cross I have to bear to balance the good things in my life.

The hardest thing in modern Western life is to just ‘be’.

You hit it on the head. I figured this a long time ago (14 yrs now) and slip back and forth between an unredeemed life and a fulfilling one depending on where my head is at. The one constant indicator that something is wrong and I need a ‘reset’ is when I start thinking of/fearing the future and regretting the past.. Whenever I’m not in the moment (just ‘being’) then unhappiness and malaise is waiting eagerly to fill up my glass. Along with this is an increased worry about the World in general, I heap it all on my shoulders. Cynicism, self focus (unhealthy) and materialistic concerns mount up in a bad way. It’s like losing al your senses, like you can never experience the world as a child again, you see new things but think you know all about them so never actually experience new things. Half my family are depressive and have been medicated (self included) at different times. I have many friends who are depressed. Unhealthy self-focus is a feature in all.

I found a book recently via serendipity. I scoffed at the title but reading it felt like an old friend.

‘The Power Of Now’ – Eckhart Tolle. Can’t recommend highly enough.

Some people reeeally don’t get it, do they?

I also think you need to look at your life and find the things that make you unhappy and do something about it

The list will never get shorter, no matter what you do.

Spend quality time, without distractions, with your family.
Avoid materialism.
Make/fix stuff with your own hands.
Ride your bike.

Won’t work.

What you’re doing is the equivalent of telling a colour blind person to simply pick the red one instead of the green one. It’s obvious, isn’t it?

Riding a bike helps. I still find it impossible to be unhappy on a bike.

Unless of course it’s a road bike. 😉

Molgrips is right.

Malvern Rider – Member
The hardest thing in modern Western life is to just ‘be’.

You hit it on the head. I figured this a long time ago (14 yrs now) and slip back and forth between an unredeemed life and a fulfilling one depending on where my head is at. The one constant indicator that something is wrong and I need a ‘reset’ is when I start thinking of/fearing the future and regretting the past.. Whenever I’m not in the moment (just ‘being’) then unhappiness and malaise is waiting eagerly to fill up my glass. Along with this is an increased worry about the World in general, heap it all on my shoulders.

I found a book recently via serendipity. I scoffed at the title but reading it felt like an old friend.

‘The Power Of Now’ – Eckhart Tolle. Can’t recommend highly enough.

An excellent description in parallel with how I feel – not just me then. I’m halfway through that book – thanks for reminding me of it/the content, it certainly is very helpful.

footflaps – Member
I can highly recommend SSRIs, I used to be quite tense and neurotic 24/7, but for the last 6 years have been far more chilled about everything, mainly down to one 20mg pill I take every day. Bloody brilliant invention…

footflaps – How you can just recommend them like that with no reference to the downside is pretty irresponsible in my view.

Very happy for you that you’ve found them helpful but people should know that it can be as addictive as crack cocaine and has frightening side effects. My Mum went through a bad patch due to external issues around 20 years ago. Seroxat helped her through that bad patch which only lasted a few years but she has found it impossible to get off them and so 20 years later she is still on them with several long term side effects that she is living with.

SSRI’s should be an extreme last resort and make sure you do your research. Don’t listen to your GP that just hands them out like smarties (and definitely don’t listen to a random person on an internet forum…).

I am very very fortunate in life generally and so much more than a lot of other people. I shouldn’t really be feeling this way at all but

It has nowt to do with your wealth and everything to do with your health.

I also think you need to look at your life and find the things that make you unhappy and do something about it

The list will never get shorter, no matter what you do.

I’m sorry mate, but that is utter, total and complete cobblers!!! 😆

Some people reeeally don’t get it, do they?

Quite.

If you’ve never been clinically depressed yourself or lived with someone with clinical depression, please, for the love of god shut the **** up about it, you haven’t got a **** clue.

I’m sorry mate, but that is utter, total and complete cobblers!!!

It depends on the root cause, binners.

If there are external things making you unhappy, then fine, fixing them will make it stop – this is very obvious.

However, it’s not always external things. Sometimes it’s your own brain doing it to you. This is what the thread is about.

Riding a bike helps. I still find it impossible to be unhappy on a bike.

Unless it creaks.

footflaps – How you can just recommend them like that with no reference to the downside is pretty irresponsible in my view.

You can’t just walk into Boots and buy them. As for downsides, there is always someone who has a bad reaction to any drug. You wouldn’t discount antibiotics for an infection just because some people are allergic to penicillin.

(and definitely don’t listen to a random person on an internet forum…).

You do realise that applies as much to you as me…

Riding a bike helps. I still find it impossible to be unhappy on a bike.
Unless it creaks.

😆

Today you’re annoyed at the guy with the keys, something beyond your control. Only worry about things you can do something about. And do something.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo4OnQpwjkc[/video]

OP – It might be a coincidence/reading too far but could be a clue in the word you chose to describe a state of happiness as ‘bumbling about’

bumbling
?b?mb(?)l??,?b?mbl??/
adjective
acting in a confused or ineffectual way; incompetent.
“he’s a bumbling fool”

As soon as I realise I’m

Bumbling about being happy with a general sense of well being

, I immediately start getting paranoid about what I’ve missed, or about whats going to trip me up and land me flat on my face and destroy everything I’ve worked hard for.

Spend quality time, without distractions, with your family.

They’re absolutely the last people I’d want to spend time with for my mental well being.

Avoid materialism.

As a rule I do, but ultimately a lot of things/experiences that are worth having, cost money. Therefore you have to work hard (= stress) to afford them. Case in point – owning a house. Lovely. Except I need to find £1500 to get the chimneys rebuilt, and next spring I need to have £2k spare to get the pointing done. That’s most of last years savings gone, just to stay level pegging, never mind actually improving stuff.

I’ve always thought that the people who say they’re happy to be poor, either have never been properly poor, or have no imagination.

Make/fix stuff with your own hands.

Great until you’re stuck underneath your car in the dark and pissing rain at 5 o’clock on a Sunday evening (having been there all day on a “5 minute job” and you’ve just snapped the Thingummy, all the Thingummy shops are shut and you absolutely 100% need the car working at 7am the next morning. There are parallels in all forms of making/fixing stuff.

Ride your bike.

Great if you’re riding well. One of the worst, most depressing things ever (for me anyway) if I’m not on it. The money (must be £100k+ over the last 20 years), the months (years?)of time, the aggravation, the filth, the lost opportunities to do something else, and I’m still shit?? How is that even being to be allowable?

So that would be me being a half empty person then…

I’m in a pretty good place compared to most, but god’s it feels like I have to work at it – even to maintain the facade that its all OK…

That (in my mind) has lead to my glass half empty and indecisive – not wanting to do the wrong thing – view of the world, but I’d like to change that.

Sometimes there is no right thing or wrong thing, it just a choice of one thing or another. CBT is helpful with this stuff.

If you’ve never been clinically depressed yourself or lived with someone with clinical depression, please, for the love of god shut the **** up about it, you haven’t got a **** clue.

I wouldn’t go quite that far, but I agree with the sentiment. Depression is incredibly misunderstood, even by those who have it and those who live with those who have it. Those who have no first hand experience of it have very, very, little chnce of understanding it.

Therefore you have to work hard (= stress) to afford them

No… no… you really don’t

I also think you need to look at your life and find the things that make you unhappy and do something about it

This is an easy trap to fall into. I walked away from my career because I thought I would feel better if it wasn’t for all this grief/stupid people etc etc but I didn’t feel better, I felt worse.

Some people reeeally don’t get it, do they?

We are talking about different things here. There are people who are clinically depressed and these people need professional help as they cant “snap out of it”.

There are also those who are feeling a bit meh/stuck in a rut/dis-interested and these people can help themselves by removing things that make them unhappy and improving their outlook.

You are doing a dis-service to mental health by presuming people in the second category are the same as the first.

acting in a confused or ineffectual way; incompetent.
“he’s a bumbling fool”

Ah, I see you’re acquainted with Kryton, then…

🙂

You are doing a dis-service to mental health by presuming people in the second category are the same as the first.

I think, from what Kryton said in his OP, that he is in the latter category although not currently clinically depressed.

The question is why he feels miserable when there is a bright side and he even knows what it is? It’s because of his brain, in my opinion.

We are talking about different things here. There are people who are clinically depressed and these people need professional help as they cant “snap out of it”.

There are also those who are feeling a bit meh/stuck in a rut/dis-interested and these people can help themselves by removing things that make them unhappy and improving their outlook.

You are doing a dis-service to mental health by presuming people in the second category are the same as the first.

It’s not a black and white boundary though, we all sit somewhere on a normal distribution of ‘happiness’, with some people born innately cheery no matter what and other clinically depressed etc. Our position on the curve also moves about a bit based on circumstances.

Where the line is drawn between ‘clinically’ depressed / just pretty miserable is always slightly subjective and some people will spend their whole lives wandering around that boundary.

CBT / Drugs can help people move their steady state position a bit (and in some cases a bit more), but you’re never going to go from one extreme to the other. And if you’re at one extreme you’ll never really have a clue what it’s like being at the other…

Remember guys, life’s short and hard – like a bodybuilding elf

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceVpDjYd4k[/video]

I live in Australia 😀

Great if you’re riding well. One of the worst, most depressing things ever (for me anyway) if I’m not on it. The money (must be £100k+ over the last 20 years)

😯

radtothepowerofsik – Member
I live in Australia

Thats OK mate, you can always move but I am not sure what you can do about the accent 😀

I concur with weaksy completely.

challenging year that tested PMA but have turned things around in a huge number of ways. Now considering options over jobs which will make significant changes to life and the future potentially.

footflaps – How you can just recommend them like that with no reference to the downside is pretty irresponsible in my view.
You can’t just walk into Boots and buy them. As for downsides, there is always someone who has a bad reaction to any drug. You wouldn’t discount antibiotics for an infection just because some people are allergic to penicillin.

(and definitely don’t listen to a random person on an internet forum…).
You do realise that applies as much to you as me…

You’re right you can’t just buy them from Boots but you can get them free from your GP without too much of a struggle.

You recommended people take a drug that can be as addictive as crack cocaine without any warning of the downsides, I only recommended people do their research before going down that road.

You recommended people take a drug that can be as addictive as crack cocaine without any warning of the downsides, I only recommended people do their research before going down that road.

All drugs have side affects and some pretty innocuous ones can kill some people. So your mum had a bad experience, millions don’t. Get over it.

I’ve had depression for about as long as I can remember, it has, at several points in my life, had a very destructive and negative effect on both me and the people I love. It was only when I began to understand that my mind is just a part of me that I began to feel better. I still have existential panic attacks on a regular basis and fear and unhappiness are always in the background, but I don’t try to hide from these feelings. I try to live in the moment at all times, find beauty in every situation and when I feel low or depressed, I don’t hide from it, I confront it, I share it with my beautiful wife and we move on from it. I find comfort in the meaninglessness of the things we tend to worry about.

I also don’t watch adverts or the news…

Try meditating (never thought it would be something I would do, but it is excellent) and remember that we are only here once, so try to appreciate every moment in the moment, which is the really difficult part…

Sorry, sound like a proper hippy, just think this is an approach which can work.

You are not “wired” in any particular way, there are glass half full and half empty people, their attitudes are learnt from people and experiences. If people wish to change they can. Its not easy but possible. The brains thought patterns and even physical shape can change with the right training.

Medical drugs can help but I have had good and bad experiences and they are no magic bullet. Great if your in the throws of a serious nervous breakdown but not so good else where IMO.

The balance of happy chemicals Serotonine, Dopamine and Norepinephine do control how you feel and to an extent how you percieve life, but your brain controls the hormones that allow the creation of these chemicals.

CBT can help change thought patterns and many people find it helpful, certainly the world would be a calmer place if this was taught in schools! I don’t this this is all you need to know.

Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy http://mbct.co.uk/ I am finding very useful. Using this you can control the feelings you get. This is subconsious telling you you have not done enough, could have done more or better or different!

To answer the OP the feeling of contentment I believe is attainable, some lucky people already have it. No doubt making physical changes to your life helps, making changes to the way you handle life is also a key point. My current thinking is how you choose to use your brain is crucial. Trying to break negative thoughts and patterns and replacing them with good ones. Along with staying positive, down time with people you love, riding and fixing my bike.

Doing things like riding does help me to stop thinking, they also release the feel good chemicals so a bonus all round, just dont over exercise if you objective is to just feel good.

I’d agree that consumerism is not good for a happy state of mind, it hooks into the need to have part of the brain, as soon as you get it you want something else.

As I think someone has said, to get to the state where you are just “being” rather than “doing”. To get the brain to stop going round in circles, thinking this and that. Just being content is a state of mind you can train yourself to attain.

There are lots of books written about MCBT, I have recently read this and found it very informative, plenty of humour and science.

Apologies for the monolog.