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So its ok to break the law in a very specific and limited way. 🤷♀️
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1303311625643008000
I don't think it is a bluff. Whether it goes through or not, international credibility has been seriously damaged. I can't see the govt spending that sort of political capital for nothing.
D'you know, I thought a sort of resigned acceptance would have settled in by now, but I just find myself getting angrier by the day.
That’s because it isn’t “an event” to get behind us, it’s a process that is only going one way, for years, before someone can step in can try and arrest the decline. We are not looking at the end state now, there are years of things getting worse and worse in UK politics… because lies and promising to rip things up have been rewarded with the power to… keep lying and ripping things up. There are always more lies and wanton destruction to come.
So its ok to break the law in a very specific and limited way.
I have made a note of this for whenever I am "trespassing" somewhere.
D’you know, I thought a sort of resigned acceptance would have settled in by now, but I just find myself getting angrier by the day.
Me too. But this is all just the inevitable endgame of an utterly cretinous idea, that was achieved through lies and pandering to the worst inner prejudices many people hold. Sure, the real driving force is the sect that want instability for their own gain (financial, political, both) but they weaponized stupidity. At all levels.
Problem is that now the road is about to run out. Brexit always was and always will be a ****ing ridiculous act of self harm. Well, that harm is about to become evident.
No wonder these clowns are falling over themselves to provoke the EU, provoke Starmer, provoke the factions in NI, provoke anyone to br able to deflect some of the blame.
I really hope that the rest of the cast in this farce fold their arms, sit back and say to Johnson et al:
"No chance. This is all on you. Your mess. You aren't going to be able to hide in a fridge this time."
I also pray that enough of the public will finally see this shitshow for what it is. English nationalism and exceptionalism is shown for what it is and 'we' learn a lesson. What could come after is truly scary.
It's like the beast that can't be satisfied. You won the referendum, you're heading for a no deal / clean break, you're ripping up the withdrawal agreement you negotiated and passed into law and you are still not satisfied.
Where is it going to stop?
Where is it going to stop?
Sadly we are going to find out the hard way.
It is fascinating seeing how the previously ruled out is now the we were always at war with option.
I have made a note of this for whenever I am “trespassing” somewhere.
I was more thinking that if I rob the post office but don't actually kill anyone then it is a specific and limited crime therefore perfectly acceptable.
It's actually scary thinking where this will end up. The moment that lockdown became largely untenable was just after the Barnard Castle saga when the public basically looked at the lying little weasel and thought "well if he can do it..." and everyone promptly drove themselves off to the beaches and the hills.
Now the Government have just said that it's fine to break the law - not just any law but international treaties. I mean, they've been suggesting things like that for a while (using the Navy to intercept asylum seekers) but never actually said it in so many words. Now though... Seems that anything is fair game. Don't like it? Just make your own rules up, break the law.
Not everyone in government is spineless.
I dont think technically he is a member of government. He is a civil servant working for them instead hence why he isnt a spineless halfwit selected purely for loyalty to the glorious leader.
Another government lawyer just quit
https://twitter.com/PermSecGLD/status/1303438872651718661?s=19
I'll admit I didn't think they'd do it, but looks like the government are going to push for no deal
Ripping up the WA, means EU will have to walk away
Oh well, better get filling up those no deal emergency caches!
I was more thinking that if I rob the post office but don’t actually kill anyone then it is a specific and limited crime therefore perfectly acceptable.
Yeah it could be extended to that but since I have ethical issues with robbing places I will just keep it as an excuse for those things I dont have any ethical issues about. Its gives me a variant on the "isnt it silly" comment about not being allowed to cycle or walk somewhere.
I am not sure how much difference in reality it will make though. For those who pay attention to such things the attempt to prorogue parliament was pretty much the same dubious approach to the law.
kimbers, do keep up 😉
That was announced this morning.
Interesting read in Monday's Guardian...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/eu-has-powers-to-punish-uk-if-it-breaches-brexit-treaty-experts-warn
I wonder how tempted Barnier and Von Der Leyen are to say...boris, you are a congenital liar with no interest in concluding a deal with the EU other than on your skewed and unreasonable terms; this is not acceptable so...goodbye.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance.
The thing about the WA being tied to the ECJ and the "The EU is punishing us" narrative that might come is that the WTO has its own arbitration procedure "court" so we can get spanked by them if we're naughty too. The only way to not have some kind of court above you is to just be government of the whole world. Though I imagine the Vogons would take a dim view of our shenanigans.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance.
Thereby playing into the hands of this latest gambit.
Johnson and co don't want to own this cluster, so are desperate for someone to blame this on. Hence the news this morning that there is going to be a four day debate on this issue to 'flush out Labour's position on Brexit'.
Beyond pathetic.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance
Cue Boris and every leave voter claiming that the nasty EU wouldn't speak to us, that they had no intention of making the wonder-deal, and that therefore we are better off without the nasty EU.
Hence the news this morning that there is going to be a four day debate on this issue to ‘flush out Labour’s position on Brexit’.
An attempt to re-fight a war that's over - and will be seen as such.
Cue Boris and every leave voter claiming that the nasty EU wouldn’t speak to us, that they had no intention of making the wonder-deal, and that therefore we are better off without the nasty EU.
Easily de-bunked by reference to the facts.
The effects of Hard Brexit can not be avoided, so those that want it will put their efforts into shifting the blame for them rather that putting in the measures to try and reduce them. The damage of Brexit will be the fault of people who pointed out it was coming, and the EU and non EU countries who don’t (and can’t) give us the promised (by Vote Leave) trading arrangements that as an ex-member state of the EU are better for us than as a member. Trade will be harder from next year… everyone knows it, including those who sold the lie that the opposite would be true.
Easily de-bunked by reference to the facts.
That would be the first time in recent political history that the facts had an impact on the electorate.
The (conservative) MP who asked the question about the proposed bill which gained the response about it breaking international law was interviewed. He sounded flabbergasted that the government could even countenance such a move.
So there's definitely disquiet amongst Tory backbenchers about it, whether there's enough disquiet to lead to any such bill being defeated is another matter. Of course the government could introduce a three line whip for the vote, i.e. the argument is so weak we'll play the bully card.
Hence the news this morning that there is going to be a four day debate on this issue to ‘flush out Labour’s position on Brexit’.
Four days on trying to pin some of the blame somewhere else whilst indulging the frothing gammons?
Wow, at least they have got their priorities straight.
The first line of any Labour voice should be "It is highly inappropriate to be spending this much time on this issue in the middle of a pandemic, but...."
Over and over again. Emphasising what this rotten bunch hold as their priorities.
That would be the first time in recent political history that the facts had an impact on the electorate.
So true, sadly.
For the friends I have who voted leave, this was never about facts or even practicalities. The information and policy that is emerging this week therefore is 'fine' it's the way it has to be to have this idealistic Brexit.
I do feel that many in the government leave camp are now using the opportunity of Brexshit to bury other changes, to capitalise on the mayhem we find ourselves in. It's a bonfire of our rights and protections.
I've said it before, I worry for this winter and next year as the worst of Brexshit combines with the worst impacts of this pandemic to really wreck a lot of our economy and opportunity. 🙁
This rather handily makes protests less likely and gives an easy 'socially irresponsible' attack line.
Covid may well turn into a gift for these cynical crooks.
So there’s definitely disquiet amongst Tory backbenchers about it, whether there’s enough disquiet to lead to any such bill being defeated is another matter.
Pretty much any backbone in the Tory backbenches has been surgically removed by Cummings et al.
I have not heard a peep from my MP recently. He is still mainly retweeting shite about Northern Ireland despite not being the minister for it any more, so you would have thought that the current shitshow would be of interest to him. Utterly supine.
Easily de-bunked by reference to the facts.
^ Easily debunked by reference to the electorate.
Post-truth has a hyphen these days.
Bet this is going to be shit in a specific and limited way.
Bet this is going to be shit in a specific and limited way.
It will be utterly naff if it goes ahead. If it does, I expect a couple of clever types will subvert it in some way.
As always, the flag-waving morons won't get it, whilst the grownups will. However, once the morons have it spelled out to them, the clever types will have their homes burnt down and they'll have to go into hiding.
Maybe they can organise a book-burning event too...
This cover has got to be worth sixty five of your Earth pence. Magnificent.
I mean, it seems unlikely that this is the first time Boris Johnson has reneged on a withdrawal agreement.
Truly stupendous.
Classic one liner that.. and aslo lead me to this piece of farce:
Ha ha.
Nadine Dorries. What a prat.
It’s long past the point where the clown is revealed as a killer clown.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1303444107658956800
We are totally ****ed aren't we? Especially if the news papers ignore the fact the withdrawal agreement was written with this govt, then rushed through parliament without proper scrutiny, then try to blame anyone else.
I did think "ah, Nadine Dorres, remember her? She was shit. Wonder what she's doing now, column in the Telegraph?" Oh.
Lots of chatter in legal circles that the "Withdrawal Agreement bombshell" is as much about returning to the "Will o'the People vs The Courts/Law" narrative that worked so well for this team last year. Getting back on their British populism vs the liberal elite ticket to sure up their support. Might be a bit of (understandable) paranoia in that, but they can't look to Suella Braverman for reassurance, can they.
The problem with the above is that the unwashed masses that make up the brexit base don't pay much attention and therefore you trash your reputation for a small gain that will be long forgotten in 6 months time. In more learned circles this will not be forgotten or forgiven.
In more learned circles
Enemies of the people. All of 'em. Force them all to resign, or be scared of speaking out.
Interesting that my local ERG headbanger MP and local government minister, Simon Clark, has resigned "for personal reasons" today. Bit of a surprise, he'd drunk all the Brexit Koolaid and was a big Boris fan. Also a solicitor so maybe getting out in time?
Just seems like a completely chaotic government. The previous minister in his role lasted months, and now he's proud of all the great work he's done since he took over the role in Feb 2020. When he got the role he was giving it large about how he can drive the regeneration of the north etc. etc but obviously not arsed enough to stick it out more than 6 months.
but obviously not arsed enough to stick it out more than 6 months
Scared of constituents coming a-knocking when there are no 'benefits' as they see them accruing next year, only pain.
There will be a few more like this. The ones who know full well what is coming.
I imagine he will resurface after a bit of time off playing golf as a non-exec director of an outsourcing firm, or perhaps providing them advice at consultancy rates.
Irish politician on channel 4 news now just reiterating that if the UK government go ahead with this breaking of international law then they’ve already received assurances today that the US Congress would never ratify any subsequent US/UK trade deal, as it would be seen as undermining the Good Friday Agreement.
It really is stupidity on so many levels. Ensuring no deal, then making sure that as well as the EU, nobody else will be remotely interested in doing any trade deal with a totally untrustworthy Pariah state that the UK has become under these shysters
This from Biden's foreign policy adviser
@joebiden is committed to preserving the hard-earned peace & stability in Northern Ireland. As the UK and EU work out their relationship, any arrangements must protect the Good Friday Agreement and prevent the return of a hard border. via
@NYTimes
Here's one from last week
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-brendan-boyle-good-friday-agreement-trade-deal-warning-a4542621.html
It seems that this latest bill, when Cummings said ‘Take Back Control’
He really meant it.
It completely undermines the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies and centralises power at number 10. Their contempt for parliamentary scrutiny and accountability is already well documented.
They’re accumulating all this centralised power, but ultimately power over what?
A bankrupt and fractured UK, that’s a pariah on the world stage?
Nancy Pelosi has just said that reneging on the Withdrawal Agreement will not be accepted by the US Congress because of the threat to the Good Friday Agreement and any proposed trade deal will be dead in the water.
I would have thought that johnson, his world class cabinet and genius spad would have recognised the power and influence of the irish-american vote in the US.
They haven't.
Neither have they recognised that the UK is nothing more than a fading, former colonial power - a description I've used frequently; a haemorrhoid on the EU's anus which they wish to excise for their benefit.
C'mon johnson, you're doing so well - keep it going.
May and Major are openly critical.
Dissent on the back benches is increasing.
If it wasn't so serious I would be laughing my socks off.
^^ I think they do realise it would mean no trade deal with the US. Not that I'm crediting them with any intelligence,mind you.
If we assume they did/do know this, then it just adds weight to the Bill/posturing just being an empty bluff for domestic consumption (looking good and Brexity) and just setting up Boris for the climb down... which will be marketed as a last second victory again all odds/ the evil EU.
Of course it also means the EU likely believe in the impending climb down too. They have to play the game though. They won't care if Boris climbs down and calls it a victory. They will have got the deal they need and he can grand stand all be likes.. It matters not one jot to them.
I would expect some well disguised bad news later this year if you are a UK fisherman and thought these chancers actually have a **** about your fishing rights..
^^^
I now sway quite violently between opposite extremes on this.
If I am having a good day I tend to go with the notion that Johnson is just grandstanding and he really is just the cowardly lion and that events will have to cause some sort of sense to prevail eventually. This is what would happen if things were in any way 'normal'.
But if I am not having a good day I think that this freewheeling rabble really are mad/stupid enough to burn this country to the ground and try to blame covid. Brexit has already done so much irreversible damage, I wonder if they just view the next damaging event as another necessary step.
It is utterly incomprehensible and mental. That is why I can never accept Brexit. I can't allow myself the doublethink. It is genuinely crazy.
I now sway quite violently between opposite extremes on this.
Excellent post that sums up my thinking. They can't possibly be that stupid. And yet they keep demonstrating that they are.
I was never a huge fan of the EU, but voted remain as it was clear that there was no credible plan if Leave actually won. Even my ardent Tory, pro-Brexit dad concedes I was right.
It’s crazy isn’t it? We’re left where the only hope of avoiding economic Armageddon is whether or not we can depend on the cowardice of the charlatan presently masquerading as PM.
On my better days I remind myself that he’s a complete shithouse and this will all be a bluff.
But what if it’s not...
I think they are so out of control, they don't know if its a bluff or not. The country is victim to chance at the moment.
I am just widly oscillating between anger, fear and resignation to fate at the moment.
Lord Peter Lilley on R5 there, just said that he feels the chance of Boris's new withdrawal deal going ahead is now '50:50 in favour of going through'... I kid you not.
Lord Peter Lilley on R5 there, just said that he feels the chance of Boris’s new withdrawal deal going ahead is now ’50:50 in favour of going through’… I kid you not.
If it does they can stick their ****ing rule of six up their shitpipe.
Gatherings of 7 all round. Even if you hadn't got any planned. Seven is breaking the law, but in a specific (one person too many) and limited (only one person too many) way. **** this bunch of criminals.
^^^
I wouldn't, of course, but if a government is prepared to openly break laws why can't individuals?
I think they are so out of control, they don’t know if its a bluff or not. The country is victim to chance at the moment.
Prisoners of their own lies. It was always going to come to a day of reckoning. The real question is how much are they going to let the country fall apart before admitting it. Or not admit it at all and possibly plunge us into some dystopian nightmare....?
Tories would be quite happy at the EU suing the UK at the ECJ
That 40% base are going to start noticing the epic incompetence of Johnson & co at some point
Populism needs a bad guy
Also heard lilley on 5live.
He was floundering, incomprehensible, incoherent - other than saying a trade deal is 50/50.
Aye, he was dreadful Frank.
Also heard lilley on 5live.
He was floundering, incomprehensible, incoherent – other than saying a trade deal is 50/50.
Pissed or tranquilizered up to the eyeballs probably. I think a lot of them are most of the time.
Lord Peter Lilley on R5 there, just said that he feels the chance of Boris’s new withdrawal deal going ahead is now ’50:50 in favour of going through’… I kid you not.
Do we know when this vote will be taking place?
Very keen to see if my MP votes for it
Pissed or tranquilizered up to the eyeballs probably. I think a lot of them are most of the time.
ditto Bernard Jenkin last night on Newsnight. He had the glassy eyed stare of a religious zealot/ serial killer / cult member / tranquilizer addict / insomniac
got a hard time off Emma Barnett.....which was nice
death cults R us
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Do we know when this vote will be taking place?
Very keen to see if my MP votes for it
Well mine is Rees Mogg, I'll tell you how he will vote...!!
Lord Peter Lilley on R5 there, just said that he feels the chance of Boris’s new withdrawal deal going ahead is now ’50:50 in favour of going through’… I kid you not.
Could be worse though, could be 50:50 against a deal going through!
Did you hear the Polish MEP on before him? What a difference 🙁
Mine is property empire king of Angelsey Rossendale MP Jake Berry so another one I already know which way he's going to vote
I think they do realise it would mean no trade deal with the US. Not that I’m crediting them with any intelligence,mind you.
I don't think they care about a trade deal with anyone, anywhere. Their free market fundamentalism is guiding them to open up the UK to a virtually no rules based trade system in the belief that other countries will reciprocate...only it will end up with one way traffic.
Either way, the Uk will operate as a tax haven and rinsing facility, everything else, be it manufacturing and services are expendable. Remember 'F*ck business'. When someone shows you who they truly are, believe them.
That 40% base are going to start noticing the epic incompetence of Johnson & co at some point
The tories can still win a majority on less than that, and the question some of those who voted for them at the last election will ask themselves at the next election will be to do with loss: Will I have less to lose voting tory or for someone else?
if a government is prepared to openly break laws why can’t individuals?
They really haven't grasped the "leading" part of being leaders, have they?
Have you seen the latest pie-in-the-Sky Brexiteer nonsense?
Cummings and Bozo want to use a no deal Brexit to then use state aid to set up trillion pound tech giants in the UK.
I think they’re not just pissed, they’re smoking crack!
https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1304006231389024257?s=21
All going well I see...
I think they’re not just pissed, they’re smoking crack!
No, they want to divert your tax money to their friends, clients and backers.
Just look where they've been spending the millions earmarked for Coronavirus.
It's a heist.
Cummings and Bozo want to use a no deal Brexit to then use state aid to set up trillion pound tech giants in the UK.
Step one: Give Dido Harding $1,000,000,000,000
Step two: ????
Step one: Give Dido Harding $1,000,000,000,000
Step two: ????
Step 2: ensure that you own / manage / consult for a company that can apply for some of that money.
The PPE train has long since left, this is just the next step of that; they've seen that you can get away with giving hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of pounds to companies with no assets and no experience so why not do the same with IT?
Maybe Jennifer Arcuri is back giving technology lessons to the PM and she'll need paying off a bit as well.
I heard Bernard Jenkin on R4 a couple of days ago, sounded like a fundamental nutter, the ERG are full of like minded souls. Like a cult, start drinking the Kool Aid.
What timescale does cummings see for these tech behemoths to come into being, doing what and how long would it take for them to achieve any worthwhile scale?
Any tech company outside of the US or China which shows real growth potential will be targeted for acquisition.
Seems to be a great way to export technology.
But, hey, what do I know when compared with the omniscient cummings?
We had one, it got sold
Fintan O’Toole in the Irish Times has always been one of the most coherent writers on Brexit, with that degree of separation in viewpoint. Today’s article is a good one, pointing out that Johnson is so slippery, dishonest and duplicitous that even as he signed the agreement, he knew full well he would do this. He never had any intention of honouring the terms of the WA
Boris Johnson's 'oven-ready' Brexit had a secret footnote: we'll rehash it later
What’s particularly terrifying is the quote from Dominic Cummings from March 2019, when May was still PM
“dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”
That man really is like a cancer in our society
They already staffed half a billion $ in buying One Web, a bankrupt satellite communication business in the vain hope they can somehow use the technology to build a replacement GPS systems - the considered opinion is they're trying to re-invent betamax.
pointing out that Johnson is so slippery, dishonest and duplicitous that even as he signed the agreement, he knew full well he would do this
Several ERG types claimed AT THE TIME that this was the case, and said that was why they could vote for it, because Johnson had promised that it would be dumped long after we signed it... the media chatted about it as if Johnson was lying to the hardline hard Brexit MPs in private, but telling the truth to the public.. in public. No idea why they thought/claimed that, given his track record when it comes to telling us the truth.
technology lessons
A great new euphemism for 'noshing off'.
In a statement published after Mr Sefcovic’s talks with Cabinet Secretary Michael Gove, The commission said Brussels will “not be shy” in bringing court proceedings against the UK if the PM drives ahead with the bill, which it believes breaches the Good Friday Agreement.
And quite correct too.
The Americans won't deal with us an the EU certainly won't if boris rips up an international peace treaty and the already agreed withdrawal agreement in one fell swoop.
What actually is our governments game plan? ... There isn't one that I can see, unless it's grab a bit more cash for their chums and quickly scarper offshore like the true believers in our country that they are.
I did initially think they'd go the USA way with substandard food etc. Just to secure some sort of 'lip service' deal so they could at least say they've struck some sort of trade deal.. But it seems they have burned that bridge too...
Wtf
They were pushing for a quick USA trade deal, and had rolled back on promises about food and farming standards… but once we’d shown we were willing to do whatever it takes… USA stopped talks on a deal with us… but carried on with their tariff reciprocation talks with the EU. If we are desperate to do anything it takes to get a deal with the USA now… they are astute enough to know they can get something even less balanced next year or later… the USA deal is off for now.