Right I want an Espresso Machine and I have a £400 budget.

We already have a great grinder and a number of coffee devices but want a reliable simple machine.

Any suggestions?

a porsche

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-32764548

Sage barista express – had lots and but this one is simply amazing. Slightly over your budget but worth it if you like good coffee.

At £400 budget this is the one to go with your grinder.

Rancilio Silvia V4 2014 Edition Espresso Machine @ Incl. Tax: £369.00. (not sure if they improved on the auto filling before steaming and you need to make sure you don’t steam too much at any one go – burn out the steam pump apparently)

I bought my grinder from Bellabarista good service.

From Bellabarista

Otherwise, it’s Gaggia Classic II for around £300++ (sale price £220) the latest version.
Coffeeitalia here

Both reliable

Obviously Sage barista express is fine too if you can stretch your budget.

I have Gaggia Classic as I bought it at a good price many years ago during sale think it was 6 or 7 yrs ago. As I prefer Americano this is perfect for me as I normally drink 2-3 cups per day. I can easily brew 2 to 3 cups of Americano easily when friends visit.

🙂

Gaggia Classic. Hang out on eBay and you’ll find one that was used 5 times and put in a cupboard.

Have the standard STW Gaggia Classic here and it’s great. Will likely last forever too as it’s so simple inside and easy to service. If you’re after reliable and simple then it definitely fits the bill.

Though if I was getting another I would be very tempted by a La Pavoni or similar.

The Classic – add the Rancillo Wand and its elegantly simple.
As for the grinder – you have one apparently so good to go.
Reminds me I need to talk to the guys in germany about the shiny, new grinder they sent me….. I could run Costa off it 😯

I have a feeling I’ll end up buying one of these…

Though if I was getting another I would be very tempted by a La Pavoni or similar

This is what I have. Not sure why anyone would need to bother with a machine with an electric pump. I guess the difference between a lever machine and something like the gaggia classic is the difference between a merkur and a gillette mach 3 in the shaving world. Which is why I’m always surprised the gaggia is the stw default answer with so much shaving snobbery!

Only thing about the La pavoni is that it definitely makes a better cup once the machine is properly warm with a hot group – and that takes a good few mins (best turned on in the morning before you shave with your merkur 😉 )

Interesting comments about the La Pavoni. From what I’ve read (e.g. this over at coffeegeek) it does sound harder to get a consistent product out of it, with more things to consider like pre-infusion. In terms of warming up, no different to any other proper coffee machine there. Which do you have convert?

Which do you have convert?

The default base model La Pavoni Europiccola EL picked up for not a lot on ebay few year ago.

There is an element of skill to getting it right but nothing that can’t be learnt in about half an hour. It’s a bit tamp pressure and grind temperamental but again not hard. I just have to fine tune how hard I tamp and move the grind knob a little between batches of coffee but by now it’s entirely unthinking – i.e. I don’t procrastinate about how to tweak, I just do it virtually subconsciously. I think part of it is that as you are providing the pressure you have slightly more affinity with it so feel the need to fiddle, rather than with an electric pump your only real feedback is the flow rate/time taken to pull a shot.

rather than with an electric pump your only real feedback is the flow rate/time taken to pull a shot.

Sounds pretty good. Though you can get a lot more feedback from a Classic with a bottomless filter. Well worth it in terms of getting the right grind, distribution and tamp.

La Pavoni is hardly a one button consistent shot and has smaller extraction volume than a pump machine. They are great when you have them dialled in but with their foibles not for a beginner wanting consistent shots.

The Gaggia Classic changed recently and I’m not sure if they have a 3way solenoid any more? I would do some googling. You can usually pick up a pre phillips model for £100-£150.

the Sage machines are excellent if you can stretch your budget.

If there’s one thing that would really improve something like the Silvia (and the other machines recommended here) it’s to go dual boiler. The single boiler is fine though faffy if you want to make a mixed round of drinks.

To the point I (da da da daaaaa) nuke the milk for my latte rather than piss about heating the Silvia up for a bit of frothing. Not an option if you’re cappuccino beast.

When I buy again it’ll be a dual boiler machine or….. two Sylvia’s 😀

Will I get shot down in flames on STW if I suggest a £200 (or spend £400 on a posh one if you want to) nespresso machine for someone who just wants a reliable simple machine to turn out a coffee in the morning?

Mines about 4 years old, never missed a beat and turns out a brew or 2 every morning with no mess, fuss, or twiddling and tamping. Coffee used to be a weekend thing with my old machine.. I’m a converted heathen 😉

Yes you will. Peasant. 😛

New dual boiler for £400 is there such thing?

If I were to upgrade it will be Expobar Leva (dual boiler) that comes with rotary pump and tank reservoir (also with ability to connected to main water) including low water indicator for the tank reservoir. Hope they can make those slight improvement as it is not really much to ask.

At the moment their rotary version has to be directly connected to water source … arrghhh …

I think if they can make those improvement then it will a machine that is very difficult to beat.

😀

I’ve got a Delonghi Magnifica S Plus, makes a decent coffee with a single button (plus a second button and a knob for frothing). Very consistent, but noticeably better results with decent beans.

Oooh Chewk, you shouldn’t have…

spooky_b329 – Member

I’ve got a Delonghi Magnifica S Plus, makes a decent coffee with a single button (plus a second button and a knob for frothing). Very consistent, but noticeably better results with decent beans.

That’s a nice machine too if you like it automatic.

boblo – Member

Oooh Chewk, you shouldn’t have…

I doubt I going to upgrade for sometime … 🙂

That expobar looks like a PID machine, there’s plenty of choice out there With the E61 group from Rocket, Bezzera, Izzo etc

MrSmith – Member

That expobar looks like a PID machine, there’s plenty of choice out there With the E61 group from Rocket, Bezzera, Izzo etc

Yes, it is PID machine. It is also the cheapest amongst the ones you mentioned above with dual boiler if I am correct.

🙂

La Pavoni Europiccolla Professional here, wonderful machine but can be a little challenging if you don’t take the time, as Convert says I adjust my grind, tamp, etc more or less subconsciously now but it took a bit of practice. It was an ebay bargain but needed some work as the previous owner was mechanically challenged.

A friend has the Gaggia Classic and its very nice but it lacks key features like a massive brass eagle on top of the boiler.

MrSynthpop – Member
La Pavoni Europiccolla Professional here …

I was very tempted by it’s simplicity at one point but decided, due to laziness for morning coffee, I went for Gaggia Classic.

One suggest I would give to La Pavoni, especially the smaller ones, is to have some sort suction cup to stablise the unit when pulling for a shot.

A friend has the Gaggia Classic and its very nice but it lacks key features like a massive brass eagle on top of the boiler.

The massive brass eagle will be useless to me coz I don’t have space to fit on top of my kitchen worktop. 😮

Save yourself a stack of money and buy an aeropress for 25 quid. Seriously it’s the best coffee I’ve ever had! Don’t be put off by its low price and simplicity.

Aeropress is great. It doesn’t make espresso though.

.

@mrsmith . A sandwich toaster is great too, but that doesn’t make espresso’s either.

@johndoe good point, I totally overlooked that, sorry. 😳

I bought a barista express before child was born, used it daily for two years.

dead good.

I just went through the same process.
From “start to finish” :
-Gaggia Classic : ok if you can get the older model
-Rancilio Silvia : brass boiler vs ali on the Gaggia
-2ndhand, refurbished Bezzera BZ99

and finally decided for a refurbished Pontevecchio Export Lever machine.

I already have an Aeropress as well as a V60 but I wanted the cheaper Espresso machine to see how much I will use it over the other methods.

I have been toying with the idea of the new La marzocco machine but wanted to make sure I will use an Espresso machine enough to make it a worthwhile purchase.

Had a play with a linea Mini but the reality is I don’t need a machine of that size and the paddle is just an on-off not like on the pro machines, would rather go for a cheaper londinium L1 and have a thermally stable lever machine with a bit of control on pre-infusion and take up less worktop space.

Lotta love and good reviews for the Sage Blooming Hestonwotsit. Is it good vfm versus a Classic and a decent grinder?.

Was an Aeropress fan but since getting an espresso machine I’ve only used the Aeropress a few times.

Lotta love and good reviews for the Sage Blooming Hestonwotsit. Is it good vfm versus a Classic and a decent grinder?.

I’d get separate bits. Reckon it’d be easier to sort in case of problems. For vfm a classic is hard to beat given how easy it is to service, can’t see how they wouldn’t last forever. Though I can see why you might want something that looks fancier, is more integrated, has a giant golden eagle on top, etc.

They’ll all do the job, quality of the espresso I reckon is more down to what you put in (decent, fresh beans, stored properly) and how you make it (getting the grind, distribution and tamp just right – get a bottomless basket as this quickly shows up problems.)

Thanks Mrblobby…. So given a budget of. £500, and £220 spent on the Classic2, which grinder completes the ensemble?

Again, standard STW answer is Iberital MC2 and it’s the one I have.

For me it’s great as the knob allows for very fine tuning of the grind. I’m always just grinding for the Gaggia and I usually stick to the same beans. You get small variations between bags so need some fine tuning (just going between bags can need up to about a dozen turns, the tuning is that fine.)

If you like to try loads of different beans and want to grind for espresso, filter, etc. then it may be a pain as changing from one to the other would need a lot of knob twiddling. Probably best get something else if this is you.

I got the following grinders recommended :
Eureka MCI, or cheaper : Bezzera BB005

The same people told me to get either a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic, or a new Rancilio Silvia instead of the 2015 Gaggia.
Don’t know what could be wrong with the 2015 Gaggia though..

Don’t know what could be wrong with the 2015 Gaggia though..

Read some things about a lower power boiler, and taking a bit of time to heat up. May be an issue, especially if you are making a lot of espresso (probably not for my one or two a day!) or use a lot of steam. Would be a shame if they’ve messed with it.

Just checking out some reviews, one thing they do say against the Classic is that it’s very focused on espresso. So if you want to make fancy coffee milkshakes you might want to try something else. Can’t really comment as mine is only used for espresso but I can see why those comments apply.