Bearing, bearings, bearings, Who thinks they know the score?

wgaf

"Photo of a caged bearing, the surface of the actual balls is covered to a large extent by the cage and of course the races. For water or dirt to get at the balls it has to get past or through the cage."

thats where you said it …. im with kenny the curtain on this one … kaesae is right on some of his points but for the wrong reasons ….and on other points he is just being a complete tool. some of them defy beggars belief as to how he came up with them as being benifits

I'm guessing you've never actually run any top end bearings and you certainly haven't run any of my bearings. Good luck with the cheapo bearings.

Early in this thread (and infact when i made my post back on page 2) i was kinda on your side and thought the lynch mob were being harsh…but after this statement and others about the bearing sealing then i can see why they lynch you. You dont half have an arrogant swagger…not everything you say is right.
And yes i have used SKF and FAG bearings in pro2 hubs…neither last any longer than bog standard bearings from my local engineering place. Would you backup your bearings with a say 12 month gaurantee? How much is say a set of 6805 bearings? My £10/2 bearings last a year or so in the BB…just wonder how much a set (2) of your 6805 bearings are and how long you expect them to last?

Hey Tim.
The answer depends on a few factors. Firstly budget, the best bearings to run in a BB or Hub would be full black silicon nitride with a suitable cage made of a material that is self lubricating. I would also grease the bearings up with the right viscosity grease so that it lubricates them but also seals them from the ingress of water and dirt, whilst not affecting the rotational properties of the bearings.

Same thing for Chromium or Stainless steel bearings, Can you tell me the exact size of bearings you want to run and I'll see what I can do to replace them with something suitable but not too expensive.
Probably better to simply email me, Not sure if you can replace Faceface bearings with off the shelf bearings you might need to get them from the manufacturer.

Hello Stuart nicholson. Got a bit carried away with my gnat swatting.

Why skulk when you can swagger I always say and nothing I have said has been proven wrong yet.

As for me saying you haven't run Fag bearings or SKF in your BB, can you tell me how much they cost in the 6805 sizing?

Last time i bought a quality bearing was a few years back and they set me back (if i remeber rightly) around £12 per 6805. Og course that proves nothing as i could have quite easily got an internet price for the bearings.

And im not talking about skulking…you can be confident and back a product without being arrogent about it…you sound like you think your bearings are better than top quality industry leaders (like SKF).

Anyway,

just wonder how much a set (2) of your 6805 bearings are and how long you expect them to last?

Should add…max bearings are designed for radial loads. They wear under axial loading just as much as caged bearings however, caged bearings have the advantage of placing an equal pressure on all the bearings. For me there is no point in max bearings.

Hello Stuart.
Sorry I just find it funny winding up the handbag squad. A do get a bit carried away sometimes.

BETD/goldtec and the enduro max bearings they sell are good quality bearings and yes they are full compliment , they will by far outlast cheapo jap bearings or most other industry bearings. But they aren't the best by a long shot.

To be fair BETD are a great company and their bearings are far better quality than the junk manufacturers like specialized and most others sell.

I agree though from my research the full compliment bearing idea is fundamentaly flawed.

As for my 6805 2rs bearings you would be looking at about £6 per bearing fully pregreased, if you want SKF about £12 each fully pregreased. As for longevity I would be very surprised if they didn't last a year. However if you are using an external BB and the frames BB mounting shell isn't faced then a lot less than that.

give me a shout via email and I'll see what I can do.

I would only run the cheapo bearings if you can't get quality ones at a good price.

A couple of questions. You say that your BB must be faced. Why, if external BB's come with delrin washers that will take out the majority of the deformity? Why would that be a factor?
Surely any bearings, wether cheap or expensive, rely on the seals stopping water or dirt getting through? If you are removing the seals to add your super duper grease, aren't you interfering with the integrity and fit of the seals? Do you take into account the different temps grease has to work with when installed into a hub?
Have you tried cheap bearings with super duper grease? The only difference I can think of between cheap and expensive bearings are that the tolerances are better on the more expensive bearings.

Curly68 – Member

You madam are a troll!!!

Closer tolerances less ware, less ware they ware less, last longer yes! Savve?

In my opinion, pivot bearings do not need any high quality, tight tolerance bearings. They rotate at low speeds for maybe 30 degrees then back again. Once dirt gets in, it doesn't matter how well machined the bearings are, wear will accelerate rapidly. Seals are therefore most important, and packing the bearing with grease will help keep water out, but once the dirt is in there, the grease and dirt will form a grinding paste.

So my conclusion would be buy cheap bearings, pre grease them with good quality grease and replace them when done.

Just a quick question Kael, if using high quality bearings is so important then why do you even sell lesser versions?

Hey Andy.

Come on sunshine lighten up. oh hokey hokey cokey, oh hokey hokey cokey oh hokey hokey cokey knees bent arms stretched ra ra ra! My version of that old classic.

Bikers ask for stuff I get it for them, me I prefer working on bikes servicing and the like, but hey I dare to dream and chase one even now!

The frames pay for or did pay for my research and tooling. They also paid for the budget bearing range, which in turn paid for the performance range.

Not everyone can afford expensive bearings and I like to give bikers choices. The whole point of KaTec is to get resources and benefits into the lives of those involved.

The simple fact is the budget and performance ranges are still in their infancy, in terms of development.

Loose tolerances will cause accelerated ware, each individual bump will damage the races and actual balls. Although the amount of damage is miniscule it is accumulative, is it not andyl?

All my pivots have bushings

:finger:

ChunkyMTB

up your @SS

The bearing will be destroyed due to dirt ingress long before the wear caused by the rotation has any effect. Hence the tolerances make no real difference. Simple as that.

Think I might squirt some nice fresh grease into me zerks just for shits and giggles, it's been a while. Who needs bearing sellers eh?

Chunky… you mean I don't have to take out all those horrid bushes and replace them with performance bearings?

Phew…

;o)

😀

andyl46 – Member
The bearing will be destroyed due to dirt ingress long before the wear caused by the rotation has any effect. Hence the tolerances make no real difference. Simple as that.

Not rotation, haven't you been paying attention? the small impacts cause play in the bearings over time, which is part of the argument for full compliment bearings. Dirt ingress causes the bearing to seize and rust to collapse, However actual ware/damage to the balls/races causes play to the bearings.

As I said the loose tolerances on the budget bearings causes them to burn out quicker. As soon as there is a small amount of play the races and actual ball bearings will see accelerated damage or ware occur, will they not?

That's "wear".

loose tolerances? is that when bearings get the shits?

ballsofcottonwool

for a brain?

MEEHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA MEEHAHA laughs at own joke.

Translation into scottish please!

Come on Kael – bed time now.

If a bearing firm choose to use certain percentage of grease to each bearing for whatever reasons, why do you pop them open and over fill them? why not replace the seals with better quality ones?

MR mills NO not for me sunshine. Unless you're a good looking bird with an idiotic an taste in user names.
Try singlespeedstu, he might be interestd in the hard option and a bit of extra hairy @rse action.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/does-anyone-on-here-have-any-damaged-frames-lying-around-they-would-like-to-sell#post-1352929

martinxyz why not simply have them made with the right grease fill and seals in the fasctory?

😉 's @ mr_mills

No thanks!! I prefer gingers. Like Kael 😀

It was worth a shot. 😆

Kaesae – I think we've exhausted this topic now. Will you start another thread please?

(And this time make it wacky will yer?)

So the bearings now fail from impact damage on the races? Fine, use full complement bearings to spread the loads over a larger area and minimise this wear.

But you dont do you?

So they fail from another mode of failure, which in every bearing I've seen is down to the grease being displaced, corrosion occuring on the balls and races so the bearings become gritty or seize. High tolerence bearings will have no effect on this mode of failure. High tolerance bearings are only really needed in high load or high rotation speed applications, and mountainbike pivots are neither.

balls to this
cant believe so much cr@p can be spouted about greasy balls

did you do all your research on the internetz ….

and FWIW I've used these guys a few times and found their bearings great:
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/

: P

That's a lot of tags.

I honestly have no idea what bearings I use. They all seem to be hidden in the bike somewhere. Everything runs smoothly with no problems, so I guess they're quite happy. Threads like this make me worry about some people.

Threads like this make me worry about some people.

given the way I treat my bike I have to replace bearings quite often, so I'm interested. I'd be more worried about people who coddle their bikes for fear of wearing something out 🙂
Not coddling:
(that's a bridleway BTW)

Mr barns that is yet another superb photo and the focused but grinning face captures the whole essence of the biking spirit.

Do you do threads with reviews that show people where the best ride spots are including maps and travel info etc.

Will you do a couple Simon? show us where the ride spots are you go to, on the map and tell us what they're like?

hello Pierre.

What kind of bearings do you prefer also which manufacturer and how do you get the seals out and back in. Can you also tell me how you remove the old grease and install the new grease and what kind of grease you use?

Look forward to hearing from you or not!