thats what i say

35000 people a year die from pollution in this country

either that or a 50quid a day congestion charge

i still blame borris for scrapping red kens 25quid charge for chelsea tractors

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10231389.stm

poor effort…

Yup, it would make all our cities much nicer places to live if just bikes, busses and taxi's were allowed in city centres, and all other urban roads were limited to 20mph.

It'll never happen though, car culture runs too deep.

Yup, there's a lot of people who really, really don't need to drive in town but do so because that's what they're used to. It is quite rewarding on those days when, say, there's a big problem on the A4 and the traffic is backed up to Knightsbridge from Chiswick and they're all just sitting there fuming.
I have neigbours who'll drive 400m to go to the shops! We walk past them on the way there, are in the queue before they've parked and leaving as they're in the queue and off and doing something before they're attempting to park back outside again.

Fine – then watch that City die on it's ar5e and the nearest one thrive.

i would vote on that one ! – youd just drive shops out the city centres though

Most crime is committed in cities too.
Ban cities.
Bulldoze every other square mile.
Turn them in to a checker board of villages again.

http://www.london.gov.uk/archive/surveys/aq_public_consultation_2010/aq_public_consultation_2010.htm

survey here, let borris know what you think

alegedly forcing shops out of town versus preventing 35000 deaths from air pollution

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

and most of my comute im dodging school run mums in chelsea tractors and ****ts in prestige cars with guts bursting out of their tailored shirts who are far to posh to get the tube

The only UK city where you could even consider something like that is London, and even then there are serious (im)practicalities surrounding it. It would be good, but won't ever happen.

£25 congestion charge for 4x4s would've been a great step though.

Fine – then watch that City die on it's ar5e and the nearest one thrive.

What? So if you had to pay 50p to catch a bus that runs every 10 mins into town, and is never late becuase there is no traffic on the roads, to do your shopping, that does not beat spending an hour in a traffic jam, sucking in traffic fumes, to pay £10 to park for a few hours, just to go to Primark?

People are so blind, so short sighted, so unimaginative.

A few years ago this would have started a 100-post rant-filled hate-thread (I know cos I posted it way back!)

I drive now, so no way would I ban teh cars 😛

So if you had to pay 50p to catch a bus that runs every 10 mins into town, and is never late becuase there is no traffic on the roads, to do your shopping, that does not beat spending an hour in a traffic jam, sucking in traffic fumes, to pay £10 to park for a few hours, just to go to Primark?

Does the bus leave from my house and go directly to the centre of the city?

What? So if you had to pay 50p to catch a bus that runs every 10 mins into town, and is never late becuase there is no traffic on the roads, to do your shopping, that does not beat spending an hour in a traffic jam, sucking in traffic fumes, to pay £10 to park for a few hours, just to go to Primark?

People are so blind, so short sighted, so unimaginative.

Believe me, people are just so attached to their cars. We are looking after the PR for a £1bn regeneration programme for a town in the South – parking comes up again and again. Remove car access and use Park and Ride and the next nearest big town gets it's revenue. It might not be "right" but it's the way it is.

Does the bus leave from my house and go directly to the centre of the city?

Probably not at the moment, becuase almost all bus services are overpriced, late and shit.

It dosn't have to be that way though. It could go from the end of your street into the city centre. Or P&R. Or get a taxi if you really can't lever your fat arse off the sofa.

Or I could pick you up in my rickshaw.

fine in principle BUt the government would soon tax you back on the road…

i try not to use my car but frankly trains are depressing overpriced places , buses smell of piss and ive had more hassle and confrontation with folk on buses – for no other reason than they want a fight and the one i need to get home from town goes through dodgy areas.

did i mention the cost of public transport.

i take my bike when ever possible. if i cant bike it the situation atm is that im forced into my car. if the government are going to do anything to sort that situation they need to fund better public transport AND tax/price folk out of cars in citys !

1. Ban cars in cities
2. Make people live within 10 miles of their workplace
3. Bring public transport back into public ownership
4. Include number of cars in people's council tax

next step involves soylent green !

Probably not at the moment, becuase almost all bus services are overpriced, late and shit.

It dosn't have to be that way though. It could go from the end of your street into the city centre. Or P&R. Or get a taxi if you really can't lever your fat arse off the sofa.
When the buses are there (another service that runs close to our house has just been cut) I will use them. The last time I tried to catch a bus it never arrived so I walk into town if time and convenience allows (ie, if I don't have heavy/bulky shopping to carry home).

Park and Ride only shifts the problem to another location – it doesn't solve it. Same goes for taxis.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

Does the bus leave from my house and go directly to the centre of the city? Yup – it does from mine – and every 3 mins – as quick as driving as well and no parking issues.

It all needs to be a part of a long term integrated approach to alter the way we use transport.

35000 people a year die from pollution in this country

hmm, not in the highlands they don't. I suspect that it's only the overcrowded, densely packed and deeply unpleasant to live in anyway cities where people die in their thousands because of air pollution. And all that does is free up more space for the next batch of mice who want to move in, so slowing the sprawl of the metropolis and keeping the rural areas that much less populated, quieter and greener.

More cars in cities I say. The bigger the better.

I'd make smug b***ards who don't have cars ride terrible bikes so their moral high ground was extra high.

If public transport worked properly, then yes. It doesn't, it won't, so here we are, exactly where we started.

one thing that seems to work well in nz citys – in auckland they charge 8 dollars an hour for parking at a cheap carpark …… there are always masses of spaces …. they have an excellent bus and train service in the city which is packed every morning with folk going to work

Yup – it does from mine – and every 3 mins – as quick as driving as well and no parking issues.

Well it is handy for you then. For me it isn't. Nor is it for my mum who used to have buses every 10 minutes from near her house into town. Now they go every hour and the service she got to ours no longer runs at all.

When the buses are there (another service that runs close to our house has just been cut) I will use them. The last time I tried to catch a bus it never arrived so I walk into town if time and convenience allows (ie, if I don't have heavy/bulky shopping to carry home).

It'll never happen though, car culture runs too deep.

Hey, this is blue sky thinking here. It dosn't have to be this way. Bus services could be good. Public transport in an integrate, well designed, successfully implemented could work beautifully.

It'll never happen though, car culture runs too deep.

I never use busses either. I live 4 miles from the centre of bristol. First bus are a bunch of profiteering bastards of the highest order. Bristol City Council fail at every juncture to hold them to account. Bus services in this city are illogical, overpriced and unreliable.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

Nor is it for my mum who used to have buses every 10 minutes from near her house into town. Now they go every hour and the service she got to ours no longer runs at all.

Cos everyone is drivin teh cars innit?

It will have to happen ADH – we simply will not have the cheap energy to waste moving 2 tonne metal boxes to move 80kg of person. 30 yrs I give it until the private car as we know it is no longer viable.

anotherdeadhero – that is why i say improve buses and tax the cars out the center TOGETHER

improving bus service wont work – as you say car culture is too deep

you need to force folk out their tin cans ! then the bus system could be given a chance to work like it used to !

It will have to happen ADH – we simply will not have the cheap energy to waste moving 2 tonne metal boxes to move 80kg of person. 30 yrs I give it until the private car as we know it is no longer viable.

Ach, as much as I'd like to see it happen, I think we'll just swap from oil to something else. Electric cars, hydrogen power cells, GM bacterial biocultures, fusion power, whatever.

Now people have had the taste of freedom and lazyness, they'll never go back. Its their right to **** the planet over.

Visionaries and driven leaders are too easily maligned, whatever the logic of the solutions the propose.

I never use busses either. I live 4 miles from the centre of bristol. First bus are a bunch of profiteering bastards of the highest order. Bristol City Council fail at every juncture to hold them to account. Bus services in this city are illogical, overpriced and unreliable.

If you never use them how do you know waht they are like? Its the classic argument from the public transport hater that it is rubbish – but they don't use it.

Sunday I will be going from Leith to morven ( one of the remotest parts of Scotland) by public transport. Bus. train. train. ferry, bus ferry. It will be a reasonable price and I have every confidence in it being all on time and no problems

TandemJeremy
Yup – it does from mine – and every 3 mins – as quick as driving as well and no parking issues.

Lucky you. I live 5 miles from the city centre. Mon-Sat buses are hourly, last bus home is 10:20pm. On Sun buses come along every 2-1/2 hours.

Buses contain poor people that smell.

If you never use them how do you know waht they are like? Its the classic argument from the public transport hater that it is rubbish – but they don't use it.

Well OK, I was being glib. I do use it, but I try not to, becuase the 2-3 times a month I do use it, its running late, or its gets stuck in traffic/accidents/delays en route. Now that isn't First Busses's fault, but the illogic of their routes, the extortionate price of tickets, the dearth of any sensible dicounted tickets, overcomplication and convolution of their various zones, dayrider tickets etc and their moronic, rude, unhelpful staff ARE their fault.

Even if I'm going out wearing 'nice' clothing, its easier to call a taxi, or roll one leg up and ride into town with the 2kg D lock that slightly reduces the chances of my bike being stolen. If you're not fit/slightly less anti-car-rabid than me, I can see why people drive.

If we could effect an overnight change, and just dump a good system into place overnight, it could work so well. It'll never happen though, car culture runs too deep …

Buses contain poor people that smell.

buses share common things with sardine tins !

i have a hatred for buses – but in an attempt to fit in in the city used them for a bit … 2.50 to make a 5 mile journey (9 miles on the bus) and it took an hour and a half …. on the bike i could do it in half an hour taking it easy or 15 mins melting it

a dam sight more than 12 people are going to get killed by cars of the next month….puplic outcry? i think not!
somehow it classed as an acceptable cost.
20mph limits in urban areas is a start and i like the council tax idea, there are people round here thar replace their garden with hardstanding just for there blinged up **** cars. hit em where it hurts.

Nah, I don't begrudge people owning cars, let them own them if they want them, I just dislike the way they clutter up city streets not designed for every household owning 2 cars. They way they reduce city street to longitudinal car parks, gum the streets up, choke us with smog, fill the streets with noise and no-go areas, reduce the effectiveness of alternative transport modes and destroy the planet.

They can have one if they have somewhere to put it, and pay the full cost of its existance.

They can have one if they have somewhere to put it, and pay the full cost of its existance.

exactly – and all the road markings and signs to try to get them to behave uglify the city as well. Edinburgh was just not built for cars. every street is lined with them and the traffic jams are not nice.

a dam sight more than 12 people are going to get killed by cars of the next month….puplic outcry?

Do not be so childish. Are we at school with inane comments like that?

TandemJeremy – Member

I never use busses either. I live 4 miles from the centre of bristol. First bus are a bunch of profiteering bastards of the highest order. Bristol City Council fail at every juncture to hold them to account. Bus services in this city are illogical, overpriced and unreliable.

If you never use them how do you know waht they are like? Its the classic argument from the public transport hater that it is rubbish – but they don't use it.

Tdj – adh is spot on, trust me, the bus service in Bristol in unbelievably apalling. I will often walk miles home across Bristol after a night out rather than catch a bus (and I'm too mean to pay for taxis). If Bristol ever gets a decent, cheap public transport system I'll use it… occasionally, as we made the choice to live 1.5 miles from the city centre so my wife and I both walk to work and the kids walk to school – and long may that continue.

OK gilo – Edinburgh has very good public transport so that is my experience

mastiles_fanylion – Member

a dam sight more than 12 people are going to get killed by cars of the next month….puplic outcry?

Do not be so childish. Are we at school with inane comments like that?

Its a pertinent point – just one people like to ignore. If anything else was killing thousands of our citizens each year directly and many more indirectly……………

Think about the fuss after a train crash? Some of the worst we have had are a few days casualty toll on the roads