In Harrogate the bus company almost doubled their fares to 'pay for all the coffin dodgers' (after free bus passes were given to all OAPs to use all bus networks nationwide – and those were the exact words of the bus driver when my brother challenged it). But correct me if I am wrong – aren't the companies re-embursed for this by the Government anyway?

So a 4 mile journey costs something like £3.50 each way. So when he comes into Harrogate for drinks with his mate, they get taxis there and back – costs them around £22 return (door to door) as opposed to the £14 on the bus (which still means a 20 minute walk from his house).

TdJ – many cities do (I recall Sheffield's bus service as being excellent), which makes it all the more depressing (and slightly baffling) that Bristol's is so, so p!ss-poor.

First Busses's…and their moronic, rude, unhelpful staff

Oi ! 👿

Its a pertinent point – just one people like to ignore. If anything else was killing thousands of our citizens each year directly and many more indirectly……………

If someone deliberately killed 12 people by running them over it would be greeted with the same shock and horror as by shooting.

Accidental road deaths cannot and must not be compared to the tragic murder of 12 innocent people.

And well you know it.

Think about the fuss after a train crash? Some of the worst we have had are a few days casualty toll on the roads

Any major incident is treated in the same way – be it a rail crash, plane crash, boat sinking or major pile-up.

A single death on a road, although tragic for those concerned, is not national news unfortunately.

MF – the point is cars kill far more people than are murdered in all forms – and its rarely a true accident – normally someone is at fault.

Thats the point – we ignore the toll of road deaths simply because they are so commonplace – they are not treated in the same way as other deaths

not being childish, im deadly serious. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to take anything away from what happened yesterday, its is truly terrible. Its just that society seems accept the number of deaths on our roads….its an obscene figure if you think about it.

The car is king, they are here for good.

Nar, I like driving to work, you get the bus

MF – the point is cars kill far more people than are murdered in all forms – and its rarely a true accident – normally someone is at fault.

I accept that many people are killed each year on our roads (something like 3,000 a year I believe). But the vast majority are accidents and irrespective of someone being at fault, they are not deliberate murders – a deliberate and pre-meditated act.

The definition of 'accident'…
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.

So even if someone is driving in a dangerous fashion (and therefore to blame), they still were involved in an accident as the crash was unintentional. (Unless, of course, they deliberately ran someone over, then it could be classed as murder).

…it was more accurate to say that the impact of air pollution was a reduction of seven to eight months on everyone's life. "If we were able to eliminate poor air quality tomorrow, we would not have a reduction of 12,000 to 35,000 deaths a year.."

Don't ban cars, innovate.

Fuel cells, traffic management systems, integrated safety systems & increased survivability. Legislation forcing manufacturers to produce more efficient engines, engine off when idle etc.

Last time I checked, all the above is being done right now and has been for some time now, complete with high MPG Golf's driving far better than old school era supercars.

Yup, it would make all our cities much nicer places to live if just bikes, busses and taxi's were allowed in city centres, and all other urban roads were limited to 20mph.

Yes sure and what about people that can't take buses on their own?

juan – Member

Yup, it would make all our cities much nicer places to live if just bikes, busses and taxi's were allowed in city centres, and all other urban roads were limited to 20mph.

Yes sure and what about people that can't take buses on their own?

Very good point Juan.
I hate having to drive to & from work as its quite a nice ride.
But my wife has MS and now can't walk without aid, she has frequent falls, today I had to dash back from work to get her off the floor and changed into non soiled clothes 🙁 this took 1/2 hour in the car but it takes just over an hour on the bike or 1 & 1/2 + hours on public transport (which is well served but disjointed here).

This journey includes crossing Liverpool & the Mersey. On days like this I get really depressed that I'm not on my bike but not all of us live the dream eh!

Oh and I can confirm the Bristol posters are correct about the utter crapness of their transport system as my father in law operates a coach company just north of Bristol & has to change the timetables monthly for his stage services due to the hideous traffic & BCC's inability to organise a piss-up in a brewery.