Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

Social media is the short term fix, the poverty and lack of opportunity are the longer term solution. Will take two generations. Invest in education, housing, social support now, save on crime, benefits, social services in 20-30 years time.

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

It is rather satisfying just how many of these “hard” men who have been caught are being described as ‘visibly upset’ or ‘sobbing’ in the description of their being found guilty in court

So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.

There’s a lot of posts above referring to education , schools were and are obviously vital but they are not the only source. Community centres , youth clubs, libraries etc were all sources of informal education,  family was perhaps the main source of informal education, now weakened by low pay ,poor job security ,etc.  There’s no quick fix  for this

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

And then contribute to the upcoming demographic problem of our collapsing birth rate too.

The news if full of people being sent down, one crying for his mum (29 yr old) as he was walking out of the court room and into remand.

Oh dear.

And rioting tonight knows what cost they might be paying so zero sympathy.

My lad has been told he might be called up tonight to go onto crowd control, it’ll be his first time. I can’t lie, I’m a little worried.

It is rather satisfying just how many of these “hard” men who have been caught are being described as ‘visibly upset’ or ‘sobbing’ in the description of their being found guilty in court

Isn’t it just?

They’ve probably been louts and local bullies for a long time in any case, so their removal from communities is likely to benefit everyone there, if only for a couple of years. The number of previous arrests and convictions will bear testament to that.

Leanne Hodgson doesn’t seem to have many fans in her local area.

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

Aye of course poor people are the root of the problem

Yes. But what do you do if the scrotes don’t turn up because they’re 3rd/4th generation scrotes and none of their forebears never went to school either?

Well that’s the big question isn’t it? How do you get people to buy back into a society they been left out of, one way or another? If we could answer that the problem would have been sorted decades ago.

Education doesn’t begin and end at school either. How about opening job centres back up but as part of a community hub? Job centre/community centre/library? Rather than shutting these people out we give them the opportunity to come back in.

Someone more cynical might suggest that compulsory contraception and incentivised sterilisation attached to benefits payouts would sort that problem out a lot quicker.

Ah yes, with careful eugenics we can just be rid of the untermensch within a couple of generations.

Karma

#lifecomesatyouquickly #effaboutandfindout

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-councillors-wife-arrested-over-33410117

It will be interesting to follow this and see if a two tier system of enforcement is actually in place. Though not the ethnic one the current agent provocateurs are referring to.

Someone facing jail for calling for immigrant hotels to be smashed up, let alone burned down with the residents still inside.

The amount of division caused by all this is impressive. Something to draw in almost everyone.

Rioters vs public

Rioters vs protestors with same cause

Rioters vs counter protestors

Rioters vs rioters of different colour

Any of the above vs the police

Uninvolved public vs the police

Any of the above vs politicians/gov

Anyone supporting/defending any of the above

The amount of division caused by all this is impressive. Something to draw in almost everyone.

Indeed, that was the gist of my previous point.

So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.

That’s their two tiers right there, the ****.

https://news.sky.com/video/birmingham-unrest-police-discuss-disorder-that-kicked-off-after-misinformation-spread-online-13192061

Heres your two tier policing

If we’re sterilising anyone I’d suggest it would be most productive that it be the rich; if the alternative is having nobody to pass their privilege on to they might find they have a stake in a more equitable society. ;-)

Quite a lot of folk heading home from the office early now, in case of trouble later, and most of my colleagues from non-white backgrounds worked from home today

They’ve probably been louts and local bullies for a long time in any case

Yeah but there will also be many who went along thinking it’d be a bit of a laugh, an opportunity get pissed with their mates and have a bit of a ruck. Peer pressure and herd mentality are very powerful emotions and lots of these guys will now be massively regretting it. I doubt many of them really understood the seriousness of what they were getting into.  Not that I’m defending them, they deserve everything they get, but it will also destroy a lot of lives. Jobs lost and families cast into poverty, futures destroyed, kids left without dads etc. I don’t see any good coming from it, and it’ll probably make the problem worse a few years down the line.

Quite a lot of folk heading home from the office early now

Yeah same here, an email has gone round telling people in the Manchester and Sheffield offices to go home early if they want. Can’t help but think it’s a bit of a hysterical knee jerk reaction. At the end of the day these ‘protests’ have only had a few hundred people on them so will be very easy to avoid. Doesn’t really send a great message either, allowing a city to shut down because of the actions of a few idiots.

So three years for punching a cop but 5 years for peacefully blocking a road   Right.

Not a massive amount of critical thinking going on in posts like this, and folks wonder at why discourse as got to a point where Facebook one liners are effective at encouraging infantile responses to complex issues like immigration to the badly educated.

Education doesn’t begin and end at school either. How about opening job centres back up but as part of a community hub?

A lot of kids just need someone to look up to who isn’t an authority figure. If your parents are pretty much lost causes and all you have in your community as an example of what it means to be a man or an influential grown-up is the hardest and mouthiest bloke around you’re on the wrong path to begin with.

I wonder if Islamic communities here do this kind of leadership and mentoring well or more commonly, at least compared than the typical British community where the church doesn’t play a part. Outside of that the options are sport/activity and creative spaces.

there will also be many who went along thinking it’d be a bit of a laugh, an opportunity get pissed with their mates and have a bit of a ruck

Pretty much the definition of a lout then.

Not a massive amount of critical thinking going on in posts like this

You think causing a bit of traffic disruption is worse than setting fire to hotels, burning out cars, terrorising people in their homes and beating up police officers and black/asian people?

Pretty much the definition of a lout then.

Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn’t normally get you 3 years inside. I don’t have any sympathy for them, but I do for their kids and families who will suffer from their idiocy.

Not that I’m defending them, they deserve everything they get, but it will also destroy a lot of lives. Jobs lost and families cast into poverty, futures destroyed, kids left without dads etc. I don’t see any good coming from it, and it’ll probably make the problem worse a few years down the line.

Same as so many other poor decisions people make. I think it’s interesting how the new Prisons Minister would approach this. Yes you’re jailing people but how to avoid that exacerbating the general issue long term? IE if you were interviewing someone and this was on their record .. It’s all in the lessons and the attitude from there on. Obvs there’s levels of ‘mistake’ but in this area, people can’t (and I think won’t) be made to pay for one mistake for the rest of their lives. They can certainly turn that mistake into something they compound negatively themselves though. It’s on them to decide.

IE if you were interviewing someone and this was on their record .. It’s all in the lessons and the attitude from there on. Obvs there’s levels of ‘mistake’ but in this area, people can’t (and I think won’t) be made to pay for one mistake for the rest of their lives.

Think you’re mistaken here. The vast majority of employers won’t touch ex-convicts with a barge pole, especially for violent convictions. One of my mates was sent down 20 years ago for various direct action activities and he’s struggled to find work ever since. This stuff stays with you for life.

One of the characters from my village – disappointed the sentences were suspended and that the charges with the racist aspect weren’t pursued, given what the protest was for.

BBC News – Woman sentenced after city centre protest
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgjv45pwv9no

Outside of that the options are sport/activity and creative spaces.

I feel like there’s precious little access to sport here: instead of funding facilities and resources in the communities where it could make a real difference the money seems to instead go into getting Olympic medals largely with the privately-educated. Creative spaces appear to have been terribly underfunded too.

My granddaughter had just been  sent home from work in Boro as police have advised them to close (GP surgery) due to rioting in a nearby road.

Bloody morons, next they’ll be wondering why they can’t get their regular parmos, kebabs and curries or a taxi. I hope there’s a lot of arrests and heavy sentences for the nonsensical violence.

money seems to instead go into getting Olympic medals largely with the privately-educated.

Risks thread diversion, but evidence for this regards the privately educated bit?

Absolutely agreeing with the wider point though, having seen the benefits of community groups to engage and develop young people away from a formal educational setting.

Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn’t normally get you 3 years inside

Tbf it can do when you commit violent offences when you were pissed and went looking for a ruck. These people are the arseholes who want to jump on someone with their mates so they don’t get a shoeing, or punch people from behind outside a nightclub, they know exactly what they are getting into when they choose to attend a demo against small boats or to protect our children – racist thuggery.

As to sympathy for their kids and families, sympathy that they are a victim of someone else being a tool but not much more.

Going back to education…. I used to work as a KS1 primary school teacher in some less well off areas. I had kids who didn’t have pens, pencils or paper at home, not even colouring books. I also had to do extra reading in breaks and lunch as kids were even been encouraged to read the minimal amount of reading with their parents they had to do. The parents called the TV guide a book, and literally didn’t have any real books in the home . Also relying on breakfast clubs and school dinners for their food.  Obviously some were great kids and tried very hard, but with no support or home role models how they did down the road I have no idea.

Absolutely, but being a drunken idiot doesn’t normally get you 3 years inside.

If you punch a copper then I reckon it does.

One of my mates was sent down 20 years ago for various direct action activities

I’m guessing that wasn’t just for holding a “meat is murder” placard outside MacDonalds?

“Heres your two tier policing”

For anyone wondering, its a video where the Police describe a protest being assessed as low risk, as opposed to a far right protest which is likely to turn violent. They may not have got it completely right but comes across as a perfectly sensible approach to resourcing allocation based on the intelligence they had prior.

It does good to remind yourself occasionally that the average reading age in the UK is that of a nine year old.

This blew my mind.

A fun bit of trolling that would be nice to see from the government:
Once the dust has settled a bit, someone should add up the total cost of all these riots. Not just direct damage but amount lost from people being off work, police cost, cleanup cost etc etc

Then an equal amount should be set aside for use helping immigrants and asylum seekers.

I don’t know why you left China, montgomery, the politics and human rights attitudes there must have suited you perfectly.

It does good to remind yourself occasionally that the average reading age in the UK is that of a nine year old.

It’s not quite so bad:

Health information: are you getting your message across?

https://literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/what-do-adult-literacy-levels-mean/

Still, I never knew it was even that bad! Blew my mind too. Explains a lot though ;-)

Risks thread diversion, but evidence for this regards the privately educated bit?

I have none, and should have qualified it as speculation. My apologies.

I’m guessing that wasn’t just for holding a “meat is murder” placard outside MacDonalds?

No it was much worse than that.

they know exactly what they are getting into when they choose to attend a demo against small boats or to protect our children – racist thuggery.

Yes the hardcore lot will have known. The random idiot locals who turned up out of curiousity with their mates after having 6 cans of stella and a line of coke probably not.

You think causing a bit of traffic disruption is worse than setting fire to hotels, burning out cars, terrorising people in their homes and beating up police officers and black/asian people?

It’s spurious to link the two cases. They’re not the same judge, the same court, the same defendants or anything. Nothing about the two cases is linked in any way. The line is an appeal to emotion that somehow we all “know” that the judiciary is biased towards giving longer sentences to environmentalist that to rioters, wink wink nudge nudge when there’s no evidence that’s true, and none is offered. Two minutes of googling will get the sentencing remarks of Rex vs Hallam, and anyone can read for themselves why he got 5 years, and don’t perhaps need to have someone else to put thoughts in their head on their behalf.

Part of this thread is wondering why folks fall for or believe the stupid things that Farage, Tommy Ten-Names and Tate say, well there it is in black and white; 11 people now liking a post that’s probably copied straight from a Tweet, that’s totally made up meaningless horse-shit, but makes for a slick one liner to get folks wound up

Think you’re mistaken here. The vast majority of employers won’t touch ex-convicts with a barge pole, especially for violent convictions.

It’s certainly an easy filter at applications stage isn’t it. I probably am wrong about ‘they won’t be made to pay for it’ but if so, employers are another area of society that can play a part in changing the landscape and has the ability to (responsibility to?). Edit, in a competitive job market, not likely though is it. Them’s the breaks?

tbh If I had a company it wouldn’t put me off interviewing someone. People who make mistakes can learn a lot and people who have easy lives can get by learning little.