Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

Tate is a xenophobe (as revealed by his dreary YT monologues), and prejudice based on nationality is no better than prejudice based on race.

This is an interesting poll, only 4% of those asked seem to have any sympathy for the “protestors”,  88% apparently didn’t have.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/05/a3217/1

Pretty sure telegram isnt end to end encrypted, the poor little flowers.

This is an interesting poll, only 4% of those asked seem to have any sympathy for the “protestors”, 88% apparently didn’t have.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/05/a3217/1

A true silent majority.

Most people really are generally decent but the nasty or easily lead are bloody loud.

Pretty sure telegram isnt end to end encrypted, the poor little flowers

Yes….. it seems pretty trivial to identify and round-up the people coordinating the violence – but I wonder if the EDL and it’s various offshoots being declared a proscribed terrorist organization would change the terms of engagement for GCHQ?   I’m sure these days it’s the work of an afternoon – particularly as these people don’t seem to be criminal masterminds.

More likely those “targets” are just made up crap to try and cause more scenes like those seen in Birmingham last night. Armed thugs on the streets is never a good look and plays right into those who try and sow division.

I have finally discovered why Stephen Lennon calls himself Tommy Robinson, it turns out that it’s to stop people recognising him. I did not know this.

He also told the channel that he adopted the pseudonym Tommy Robinson because people wanted to “murder” him, adding: “My real name is actually Stephen Lennon.

“Yes, I did use a pseudonym. Because if you want to speak about Islam, people want to kill you.”

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/i-havent-fled-the-uk-tommy-robinson-hits-out-at-comments-he-is-on-the-run-after/

Edit: I had thought that it was because the leader of the English Defence League did not want his supporters to be reminded of his non English immigrant roots.

I saw the people from a mosque in Liverpool who engaged the knuckle dragers with kindness and consideration, on the news.

It is brave and humbling response to violence and hatred.

Just shows, doesn’t it. Here’s another heartwarmer from 2013:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552#:~:text=About%20six%20people%20turned%20up,mosque’s%20response%20was%20%22fantastic%22.

Did they turn up in Bradford then? Can’t imagine it would have gone well for them, which I guess is what their ringleaders actually want.

No, false information coupled with community nervousness I guess. Thank goodness nothing happened, but people in the Asian community are very nervous. Some of my partners work colleagues are not leaving their houses.

Yes….. it seems pretty trivial to identify and round-up the people coordinating the violence – but I wonder if the EDL and it’s various offshoots being declared a proscribed terrorist organization would change the terms of engagement for GCHQ?   I’m sure these days it’s the work of an afternoon – particularly as these people don’t seem to be criminal masterminds.

Doubt they’ll ever be classed as a terrorist organisation, and GCHQ don’t tend to ignore anything as it is, they will monitor and surveil everything that comes up and pass it to the appropriate agencies.

Pretty sure telegram isnt end to end encrypted, the poor little flowers.

Pretty irrelevant anyway isn’t it, ‘cos you can set up a dummy account, join the group and monitor what is going on anyway.

Can’t the authorities triangulaate mobile phone data down to a pretty small area nowadays?

These dimlo people causing agro could be identified by their phone provider. Eg ,A big list of active phone phones in the area , cross reference with known offenders , people on benefits, plus a quick trawl of fb and insta would give you a list of likely offenders.

This is so **** depressing.

BBC finally trying to give a little balance to the ‘doom scrolling’: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx66dkx3wlo

Scum be scum but they’re not the majority despite what Facebook says.

Can’t the authorities triangulaate mobile phone data down to a pretty small area nowadays?

it would just show they were nearby, maybe just visiting a friend or having a nice quiet meal when it all kicked off and they couldn’t get out. However, alongside recorded footage it would an evidence.

No, false information coupled with community nervousness I guess

If I’ve understood the reports properly, Birmingham last night was similar – counter protesters turned out for a non- event.

Wonder if they are trying to provoke minority communities into doing something daft that they can use to “justify” a response to? Are they even that clever?

Easy to say, but those communities feeling threatened need to stay calm and control any hotheads amongst them.

Birmingham looked quite intimidating last night, with videos showing zero police attendance, which of course plays into the two-tier policing stuff. One assault and damage reported by West Mids police.

https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/news/2024/august/large-gathering-in-birmingham-but-no-clashes-with-members-of-opposing-groups/

It’s ironic that some people here are bemoaning the use of social media, on an internet forum…

Worth remembering that it’s that same social media that is now being used to inform people of possible targets for far-right terrorism, so that decent folk can gather and hopefully prevent the fascists from causing more harm. If you want to be part of protecting our society from these scum, then get down to wherever your local anti-fascist demo is happening; show solidarity and overwhelm the fash with sheer numbers. Show them that they are in a minority and will not succeed.

If I’ve understood the reports properly, Birmingham last night was similar – counter protesters turned out for a non- event

If the knowledge that many, many more will turn up to challenge fascism deters the scum from gathering, then that in itself is a success.

If the knowledge that many, many more will turn up to challenge fascism deters the scum from gathering, then that in itself is a success.

There was some aggro last night, though, which IMO isn’t a success and gives the idiots material to put on social media. CCTV of the assault at the pub was very quickly circulating – which in itself hints at which side of this the pub owner is on.

It’s ironic that some people here are bemoaning the use of social media, on an internet forum…

it really isn’t.

Nothing’s perfect but a pre and post Musk Twitter is your case study. The only epoch on here was the great hack of 2009.

An intellectual heavyweight explains the situation…

It’s pretty EXACTLY the same! ??‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/qXeAcz3GS5

— Jason Manford (@JasonManford) August 6, 2024

If I’ve understood the reports properly, Birmingham last night was similar – counter protesters turned out for a non- event.

There was footage (you can find it easily enough) of a group passing a pub where EDL had been rumoured to be gathering. Someone came out of the pub and gave it a bit of ‘come on then’ and promptly got a shoeing by one of the group. Some more of the group then piled on and it looked nasty for a moment, but one of the group (may even have been the original shoe-er) then stood over the now on the ground ‘come-on then’ bloke to stop him getting properly **** up.

Can’t condone either – bloke coming out of the pub to have a go or the group that should have turned the other cheek.

What’s not on footage is apparently shortly after the muslim ‘uncles’ *turned up – and told the younger group in no uncertain terms to **** off home as they are not doing any favours. And then righted the kicked over tables on the patio, and went into the pub to apologise and reassure the pub go-ers this is not who they are.

* my understanding is these are the elders of the community that rather than specifically uncles, and they carry as much clout with the young as any parent. Shame that the English uncles are in many cases egging on the trouble instead of playing the same role

An intellectual heavyweight explains the situation

Bless. They can always leave if they don’t like it.

No, false information coupled with community nervousness I guess. Thank goodness nothing happened, but people in the Asian community are very nervous. Some of my partners work colleagues are not leaving their houses.

Shit, isn’t it? My daughter is nervous of working in Liverpool City Centre and she’s not black. These scum are terrorising the entire community, not just their ‘targets’.

it really isn’t.

It really is.

Social media itself isn’t the cause of trouble. It can act as a catalyst, but as I said, it can also be used to counter trouble. Of course there are issues with Twitter, but that’s down to the owner of the company, not the actual app. If you got rid of Twitter, then it would be replaced by something else, etc. Blaming SM for the recent violence is like calling for all knives to be withdrawn from sale because someone got stabbed. Shut down SM and you deprive countless millions from using it for positive purposes. Those using it for nefarious reasons are still in a very tiny minority. Many businesses now use SM channels as a means of communicating with large numbers of employees and clients etc. The solution isn’t to ban SM, it’s to fix society. An impossible task, I accept, but it’s society that’s broken, not SM.

There was some aggro last night, though, which IMO isn’t a success and gives the idiots material to put on social media. CCTV of the assault at the pub was very quickly circulating – which in itself hints at which side of this the pub owner is on.

So evidence of violence and hate crimes are being disseminated via SM, which is already leading to the arrests (and hopefully convictions) of many people. I’m actually wondering if some of those filming apparently from within fascist groups, are in fact ‘undercover agents’ who are bravely gathering information and evidence. Of course, it could just be that those filming are too thick to realise they are helping to incriminate their mates, but it is at least a possibility.

@formermountainbiker Did you only join STW for this thread?

may even have been the original shoe-er

It was. He was shielded from the rest of the group by the original person who confronted him.

Didn’t stop the usual suspects spreading misinfo that the guy at the pub had been killed. They’ll jump on anything and the lie does its job long before any police statement comes out.

@formermountainbiker Did you only join STW for this thread?

No. Did you?

I’m trying not to follow this too closely for my own sanity. The above BBC article is quite good at trying to put this into context – it’s pretty visible on the news but still a tiny minority of people. But it’s still demonstrating a significant issue that needs addressing. In no way am I suggesting the government caves and changes it’s policies to appease these idiots but somehow we’ve got to find a way to re educate them or…something. Or re-purpose the Bibi Stockholm. That’s a bigger issue than clearing up the damage and the sweeping the streets. We’re breeding a bunch of degenerates who are afraid of people who are not just like them and are entitled enough to believe their own failings in life are not in facts theirs at all but the fault of others. We have to live amongst them, so we need them changed for society’s sake.

On a personal upside – my father in law, the dick*, who has crept right politically since Brexit and been very vocal about Farage being a good guy of late is refusing to discuss or have mention of the riots on their little whatsapp family group. He might be a pig shit thick bell end, but I suspect he’s still got just enough about him to appreciate he is aligning his world view to be very similar to these rioters. And even he can see that does not reflect too well on him and given him pause for thought. Maybe that is the silver lining – this is the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain moment for those beige middle Englanders tempted right.

* He’s starting using the term “the coloureds” of late. He didn’t used to – he’s only 75. That was the language of his father’s generation. His wife tries to correct him every time but he still does it – it’s almost like he’s trying to be offensive and get a rise. That or  he is emboldened by the rise in acceptance of openly racially hostile views he doesn’t feel he needs to hide it any more and to do so is ‘woke’.

which in itself hints at which side of this the pub owner is on.

That, I think, in this environment, feels an ill-thought comment.

Of course there are issues with Twitter, but that’s down to the owner of the company, not the actual app

surely these cannot be decoupled from an outcomes point of view. Since taking over he’s pulling all the levers  in the name of free-speech agitator and it’s evident that bots are running riot

surely these cannot be decoupled from an outcomes point of view. Since taking over he’s pulling all the levers  in the name of free-speech agitator and it’s evident that bots are running riot

Well of course they can. The app isn’t the problem; it’s Musk.

His own daughter thinks so:

https://x.com/IamHappyToast/status/1820706222510604445

* He’s starting using the term “the coloureds” of late. He didn’t used to – he’s only 75.

Be thankful for small mercies. My dad has started using the phrases ‘pak*s’ and ‘darkies’ again. I’m due to go up for a visit next week for his birthday and seriously not looking forward to it. It’s basically going to be two days of arguing about how white men are being oppressed and their villages taken over by invading hordes from Syria.

Well of course they can. The app isn’t the problem; it’s Musk.

If you ask me the best thing Starmer could do right now is to use his massive majority to pass emergency legislation to take twitter/x offline and threaten the other platforms with the same action unless they start removing content which incites violence or hatred.

On a personal upside – my father in law, the dick*, who has crept right politically since Brexit and been very vocal about Farage being a good guy of late is refusing to discuss or have mention of the riots on their little whatsapp family group. He might be a pig shit thick bell end, but I suspect he’s still got just enough about him to appreciate he is aligning his world view to be very similar to these rioters. And even he can see that does not reflect too well on him and given him pause for thought.

Probably fighting the cognitive dissonance he feels when he sees that the people throwing bricks are from the ‘underclass’ that his favourite Daily Mail columnists have also been demonising for decades.

If you ask me the best thing Starmer could do right now is to use his massive majority to pass emergency legislation to take twitter/x offline

Enforcement action is just as likely to come from the EU. Twitter has been toxic on this issue in the ROI recently, and I’m sure is working its magic in other EU countries.

https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musks-x-probed-by-eu-for-failing-to-curb-toxic-content/#:~:text=The%20European%20Commission%20on%20Monday,hate%20speech%20from%20spreading%20online.

That, I think, in this environment, feels an ill-thought comment.

Agreed, apols. My take was a business putting that video online was ill-thought out. I was impressed with the IHG restraint, just saying the safety of their customers and guests was paramount and urging calm in today’s statement.

If you ask me the best thing Starmer could do right now is to use his massive majority to pass emergency legislation to take twitter/x offline and threaten the other platforms with the same action unless they start removing content which incites violence or hatred.

I agree with you, but the problem with that, is that you then fall down into a dark hole of state control of ‘independent’ social media. Which gives more fuel to the far-right ‘free speech’ shills. Plus various prominent far-right figures know exactly how to stay just on the ‘right’ side of the law regarding hate speech. And of course; Twitter can still be used to post viral videos of Eunuch Powell etc. So it can also still be used as a weapon against fascism. A true double edged sword.

 it’s society that’s broken, not SM.

Society isn’t broken imo, SM helped create some cracks it in the first place and works against it getting better. It distorts and biases everything to suit itself. Net negative imho.

All the evidence you might want is out there on how FB. Youtube and Twitter algorithms use anger, fear, negativity and division to increase engagement and how open it is to abuse by groups like Cambridge Analytica. It can be used for good by a charity or a cause but tbh I think that’s the minority, the majority effect of it is somewhere between increasing the pointless crap you’re exposed to and clearly damaging influence on our lives. What’s worse is that most of us haven’t grown up with the habit as a norm. Just wait 15-20 years and see if we think SM is still ok then.

Eg ,A big list of active phone phones in the area , cross reference with known offenders , people on benefits

I’m not sure what checking the middle class wheezes of furlough and eating out help out or PIP, or Motobility, or free childcare, or the child tax allowance, or the state pension have to do with extremism.

Or was it just not not “those” sorts of benefits.