might straighten got an adjustable spanner?? 😀

propper job .

anything bodily broken ?

Those pads must've been good!

saw something similar with another rotor last week, a few rotor bolts had gone walkabout and the rotor moved into the calliper causing a very similar looking fail. Was the damage to the hub a result of the accident of did the hub crack at the rotor bolts causing the fail?

Any idea which snapped/broke first - the rotor bolt mount or the rotor 'face' itself?

I've been using these (203/180/160) for a couple of years now with no issues.

Whats the burn marks on the tightest bit of the kink? Something weld itself to something?

They were Superstar pads 😯

Broken wrist and sore neck (smashed helmet obviously saved my bonce)

Rotor surface definately failed first, the ripped section was caused by the warped disk jamming on the underside of the caliper.

Think its just dirt and camera angle SBZ.

You going for compo from Ashima?

Na, call off the lawyers, shit happens.

looks like a good bit of modern art- id stick that on the mantle piece 😉 -

*later the missus would probably throw it in the bin 😉

id stick that on the mantle piece

I'll put it in the classifieds, still some life in it 😉

I think that's best described now as a 'trophy rotor'!

Hope you heal [b]quick[/b] buddy.

That rotor looks a state, eh?

I almost bought two of those 😯

decided against as I thought it looked a bit flimsy.

hope you heal up soon.

I would definitely return it to Ashima - they may be interested in such a failure, although they may well blame it on incorrectly torqued fixing bolts or other such bollo888. In their shoes I would seriously think about beefing up the spokes, as the whole braking surface has rotated around the hub fixings. Nasty. You should at least get Ashima to contribute towards a new hub.

Healing vibes though - not a good way to end the day

1st glimpse of picture 2 and it was obvious that rotor was going anti-clockwise.

Which would be the wrong direction IMO.

And looking at the arrow it was indeed going that way - is this one of the rotors with the arrow pointing the wrong way?

Looks to me like a perfect example of a lightweight rotor buckling due to rotating the wrong way - I've been warning people that would happen but people didn't seem to believe me. May I use your pictures in future to show people what can happen?

PS are you okay? Looks very nasty.

Aye, looking at pic 2 it does seem to be one of the older ones with the arrow pointing the wrong way.

Just one small point...

Which way round did you have the rotor mounted?

Looks to me like the rotor was fitted the wrong way round. ie. with the outside edge of the rotor "spokes" trailing the inner edges.

I know a while ago Ashima made a big thing about the fact the rotors should be fitted with the outside edges of the "Spokes" leading the inner as it rotated forwards. Seems that it might well have been for this very reason!

EDIT: Beaten to it...

See the post by Barbus here: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ashima-airrotors-anyone-tried-them

You definitely have grounds to take them to the cleaners I would say.

Feel free Andy, I always thought the arrow was counterintuitive to the design also but went with the manufacturers direction.

mboy, disc was fitted in accordance with direction arrow

Initially, Ashima had recommended running the AiRotors in a reverse direction in comparison to other rotors, so instead of the struts rolling against the direction of rotation they go with it. The reasons were that the AiRotors lightweight struts perform significantly better under tension, since under compression, they are subject to bending forces. After some more research and analysis, Wayne decided that the normal rotor direction performed better, so "reverse was worse".

[url= http://www.gramslightbikes.com/2009/10/ashima-pcb-first-look.html ]article[/url]

cheers. saved copies for future arguments! I might exaggerate your injuries, your widow said you were a lovely guy 😀

Do you have house hold insurance with legal cover? That would be my first call in the morning. Do you have a receipt? They really should have done a big recall on those - really is a potentially fatal/cripling mistake.

Have a reciept, it was one of the large online retaillers who supplied them, maybe old stock?

It feels a bit harsh to instantly suggest going the legal route instead of contacting them but this kind of 'error' really irks me and you (and they) were lucky (just reading about that rider killed in Scotland) and I'd want some advice on how best to approach them to get the damage paid for. Plus you also need to know who you approach first. I am guessing the retailer but I don't do legal stuff.

I saw some printed recall notices in EBC way back when, don't know how much they're obliged to do, although you'd think the retailers might have been a little more pro-active..

Dug, if you fancy some hillwalking with a fellow cycling convalescent then give us a shout.

if you fancy some hillwalking with a fellow cycling convalescent then give us a shout

I may take you up on that offer 😀

:0

Heal quick.
Scary light part on vital braking system fail....

disc was fitted in accordance with direction arrow

Have just looked closer at the picture, and so it was!

They did change the arrows on later rotors to point the other way I recall...

Really hope you heal quickly. I for one, even though I can't stand the "where there's blame there's a claim" culture would be putting in a polite email to them, followed up by a call to a solicitor, to at least find out where you stand on this. "Not fit for purpose" springs to mind, but seeing as we know they changed the design after the rotor that you bought cos they found they had problems, but did not recall the old ones knowing them to be defective, you have reasonable grounds to expect some compensation IMO.

P.S. Did you ever sell those Pro-Lite wheels you had in the classifieds a couple of months back? I sent you an email a while ago, but no response...

aye. just get yourself some advice on how to go about it. I would want to have my bike put back how it was before the part failure.

Not sure how they stand if they issued a recall - this is what you need proper advice on.

I did mboy, apologies, thought I responded to all the sale emails.

When they first came out a couple years ago I remember people complaining then of them bending, here's a thread on MBNW about it happening >>

http://northwalesmtb.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=kit&thread=2716&page=1

and a review of them on MTBR where it was stated in an update that they should be installed and run in the same way as other brake rotors, the opposite of the direction arrow on the OP's rotor

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ashima-airotor-review/3

Occams razor.

You change the pads. the brakes fail. Something that occurred during the pad change caused the failure.

Edge of pad catching n one of the holes?

TJ it was all double checked before I left to ride and the pads and retaining spring are intact so the failure appears to be disc related.

If you changed the pads and then the brake failed occams razor tells us that the changes you had made led to the failure in some way

occams razor ?

Not necessarily, the failure may have occurred anyway due to fatigue in the rotor over a period of time and todays ride was when it was going to give up regardless of pad replacement. (In fact the original Shimano pads were more powerful than the replacements)

Surely if we are looking for the simple explanation the fact that at some point in the past Ashima went "that isn't so good after all, we got it wrong, do it the same as everyone else" is the simple explanation. Sure, some new pads may have brought on the failure but if the head flys off a hammer when you hit a nail because it wasn't secured properly, the nail is irrelevant.
'course, it could have been something catching in the rotor, but that would be adding speculation...

Thanks for posting up the photos,I run a set of those and will be checking what direction they are running first thing .

Hope the wrist is a quick mend.

Thanks Fasthaggis, I really only posted this as a warning to other Ashima owners, if I had seen the thread that Russell96 had linked to I would have reversed mine and likely avoided the failure. I was lucky, my disc collapsed on a smooth local path close to home, if this had occurred over my weekends riding I'd likely be a bad state so I just wanted to alert others to this potential problem.

Brakes work Fine
I fiddle with brakes
Brakes "Brake"

I think unfortunetly there isn't really much of an argument against Ashima unless you can prove all parts where fitted correctly especially as its you Vs Zyro. I have the same rotors and have not been impressed really with them.

Sorry bout wrist.

new pads is a must not a fiddle.

It could have been me that it killed! Heal quick btw.

Good point sambob, last time anyone gets a go of my bike 😛

It wasn't me! I only tried it up hill anyway. I think i got the better deal on that one, you got the 31lb Specialized and i got the silly light Lynskey 😀

what ever you do.... Don't send them to Ashima. Then will definitely get lost somewhere!

exactly - new pads are not a fiddle. They are a consumable that the brakes are designed to to have changed.

The new pads will have a different characteristic - possibly more initial bite at lower pressure which could result in higher loads on the disc from the braking force but the lower pressure would provide less restriction to sideways forces making buckling easier - pure speculation but an example of why it could have occurred.

Or if you were bedding the pads in the discs may have got hotter than you have had them before.

I would say there is no doubt there is a design/installation instruction fault. The problem comes where they have issued instructions on the change and if it resolves them of any responsibility. Maybe there should have been an instruction sent out to the retailers to contact people who bought them?

I've got nothing against lightweight rotors or Ashima and have some on my lightweight bike. But they are fitted the correct way and I only use 160mm ones and they are a little bit chunkier than these ones. Same make though and they are fine. I personally wouldn't use them on a bike I do more serious stuff on though - jut the same way I wouldn't run the same brakes on the track as I would use on the car on the road.

exactly - new pads are not a fiddle. They are a consumable that the brakes are designed to to have changed.

I ment fiddle, as in change, alter, adjust.

The brake was fine, after it was touched,adjusted, it broke. Ashima could quite easily say pads where fitted incorrectly and jammed.

Ashima have a terrible track record. Look at the pancake brakes, recalled twice I think when they finally got released

TandemJeremy - Member
If you changed the pads and then the brake failed occams razor tells us that the changes you had made led to the failure in some way

First point - Occam's razor doesn't tell us that - it suggests that is the most likely reason. The simplest explanation isn't always the right one.

From your old friend wikipedia

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor)[1] often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae, translating to law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness, is a principle that [b]generally recommends[/b], when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions.

Regardless, I do actually agree here - the change of brake pads was likely the trigger but that doesn't make it the OP's fault - new pads often have more bite which could well have been the difference between the rotor being able to take the load and not.

If I was the OP, I'd be going back to the online retailer and seeing why they hadn't told people about the incorrect arrow. If they didn't know, I'd then be suggesting that they take it to whoever deals with Ashima/Ashima themselves to find out why they hadn't told the shops.

I'd be after some compensation in this instance at a minimum for damage to the bike and any direct costs incurred as a result of the injury. Only reasonable IMO - not suggesting claiming post-traumatic stress or anything else frivolous but the fact is that the only way some companies take consumer safety seriously is by being hit in the pocket.

Oo worried now. So which way is the right way round then? Any post a pic. Mine are a couple of years old and fixed in direction of the arrow

Occams razor = conclusion jumping for dummies

Has anyone managed to do this to their ashimas when running the rotors in the conventional direction?

also anyone seen other brake rotors do this? I can't remember seeing pics of other trashed rotors.

(just bought 1, not fitted yet)

I could believe that bedding in new pads can cause more stress on a rotor than normal riding, it's pretty much the only time I really jam them full on anyway so to me the fault is still with the rotor, it wasn't fit for purpose when fitted in the way the manufacturer instructed and failed when put under a high load (that's an accepted part of using disc brakes).

Yup,I agree Mr Wuzzy 🙂 Forget all that hokums razor guff .
The models ( with arrow the wrong way)that Dug had ,should have been recalled if there was a high risk of them failing when used in that direction.
I checked mine today and they are arrowed different ,but I now have less confidence in one being bolted to the front end.

I am sure there are a few mechanical engineers ( qualified ,not STW shed men )lurking on here that could explain what the difference in forces would be ,between the two directions.

DT78
Here is a [url= http://www.gramslightbikes.com/2009_08_01_archive.html ]link[/url]

scroll down and there is an article about them

Not a place I'd look to lose 60g to be honest.

Hi all,
I have seen a few catastrophic failures with these rotors. ALL where fitted the wrong way. Why would anybody fit a rotor around the wrong way?
Early ones had the etching on the wrong side, making the arrow face the wrong way. The situation is even worse as after a while the etching wears-off, so you have no way of proving anything if a failure was to happen.
It amazes me a company can get away with something like that, had that been a company in the 'developed world' I’m sure they would no longer be trading, Harsh I know, but probably true.
Its a shame, Ashima make some really good lightweight products. I tried to contact them via email with no success on several occasions. The website has no mention of the issue. Very poor in my view.
I have lost count of the number of riders I have seen with these rotors fitted incorrectly. Saw a picture some time ago of one of the Specialized Team riders with a similar looking rotor fitted the wrong way.
Someone is really going to get hurt by one of these.

By my reckoning this is the WRONG way round

http://singletrackworld.com/reviews/ashima-airotor/
[img] [/img]

I might be wrong but is there not an arrow showing direction of rotation on the rotor, that would show its on the right way?

Yep,
FITTED WRONG WAY ROUND.

Arrow indicates correct way but it is in fact wrong.

Exactly the problem with these rotors. As I said above there are literally hundreds out there installed like that.
Ashima have corrected the mistake now but that doesn’t help the poor folk that are riding a bike with the old ones totally oblivious to the pending catastrophe.

Right, thats it...
Mines coming off right now, shame as i've only just fitted it to replace the bent hope one.
I don't need any question marks over my front brake.

*Lights torch and sharpens pitch fork with uncast arm*

bit worried about mine now, had 'em a few years now I ran then the wrong way (as indicated) for a year then heard (word of mouth) and swapped 'em round to the right way (opposite to arrow)

still a little concerned, really don't want the disc folding on a decent one day.

OP hope you heal soon.

Cards on the table.
I changed my front ones for Hope ones a while ago for exactly these reasons. It was easy for me as has 160mm hope ones front and back on other bikes so just had a swap around.

Sorry, I should have said but didn’t want to put the frightners-up people running them already. I can’t see an issue with running them the conventional way but for me it was no hassle to change them so I did. As Dave said I really didn’t want any question marks over my front brakes.

Jesus not good.. do worry with these lightweight rotors.. have only just bought some of these and my first real set of lightweight rotors (pictured).. hopefully don't go like that!!!

Mend well fella!
[img] [/img]

I looked at those too. Also thought they looked a bit flimsy. Went for the alligators in the end.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/17162-115_ALIIW7-3-Parts-158-Brakes/Disc/Alligator-iWave-Rotor.htm
[img] [/img]

By my reckoning this is the WRONG way round

Agreed. The blades should scoop forwards into the caliper. Occam's Razor indeed...

CORRECT.

light weight rotors? bit silly imo

lighten your bike up where its less likely to cause death/injury

Just a thought, and sorry if it's been mentioned already (I haven't read every word above) but could the pad material be relevant? I recently bought some Shimano rotors which had "resin pads only" engraved on the side. So this might be their get-out if sintered were used and the rotor failed?