They refer to god so often, yet I seem to remember from reading Dawkins the god delusion that the founding fathers were atheists.

As often as they make me cringe, I’m often impressed with their patriotism and pride.

Not sure the Pilgrim Fathers were atheists, they were Calvinists, and they travelled to America from Britain to escape religious persecution and to have the freedom to worship how they wished, and that has continued, afaik.

Pilgrims (US), or Pilgrim Fathers (UK), is a name commonly applied to early settlers of the Plymouth Colony in present-day Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Their leadership came from the religious congregations of English Dissenters who had fled the volatile political environment in the East Midlands of England for the relative calm and tolerance of Holland in the Netherlands. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America. The colony, established in 1620, became the second successful English settlement (after the founding of Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607) and later the oldest continuously inhabited British settlement in what was to become the United States of America. The Pilgrims’ story of seeking religious freedom has become a central theme of the history and culture of the United States.

From Wiki.
Dawkins talks bollocks sometimes.

Religion – An easy way to control the intellectually challenged

America – A country full of intellectually challenged people

Need I say any more? 😉

Don’t think Dawkins was talking about the Pilgrim Fathers but the Founding fathers i.e the guys who put together and signed the declaration of independence or the constitution. How many of the them were atheists though i have no idea but i doubt if it was all of them – isn’t there somehting about ‘One nation under god’

Need I say any more?…..

…..depends how stupid you want to sound 🙄

the Americans are so much more religious because they are far far closer to judgement day than the rest of the world..

Pilgrim Fathers aren’t the same as the Founding Fathers.

And OP: apart from the fact that “they” mention God “a lot” do you have any evidence that America is particular religious? It’s a country of three hundred million people. I’d hate to think you were making unfounded sweeping generalisations…

They may not be any more ‘religious’ than other nations, but their churches (of whatever denomination) do tend to play a more important role in their communities.

…..depends how stupid you want to sound

Well I’m not American, and I’m not religious… By proxy I’m doing well so far! 😉

The Founding Fathers – i.e. the men who crafted the original Constitution and Bill of Rights of the U.S.A. may not have been Christian in the strict sense of the word as it meant at the time, but they were most certainly Theists.
Whilst they did believe in a Superior Being they DID NOT believe in a State-Sponsored religion and all the orthodoxy that entails, which is why they were so careful both to enshrine the freedom of religious expression and the careful seperation of Church and State.
After all, it was State Religion they were all escaping from in Britain, the Netherlands, France etc.

Church attendance by country:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_chu_att-religion-church-attendance

UK 27%
US 44%

EDIT
can’t be bothered as it’s obvious that religion and personal belief is the only thing you can be prejudiced about here 😕

And OP: apart from the fact that “they” mention God “a lot” do you have any evidence that America is particular religious?

Something like 70% of them profess to believe in a “higher power”, I think the figure in the UK is less than 30%. It’s also telling that all presidential candidates (at least the ones with a vague chance of winning) make sure they go to church on a regular basis.

“the Americans are so much more religious because they are far far closer to judgement day than the rest of the world..’
Brilliant :0)

More stats here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm (seems it’s closer to 60% than 70% in the States…)

I think the real question is why do American religious fundamentalists obtain so much media exposure compared to other countries?
Why do these religious fundamentalists have so much disproportionate power compared to their numbers?

ok, 2 questions!

Why?
Because god loves them more.

Thomas Jefferson was a Theist, he even wrote his own version of the bible with all the ‘supernatural’ bits taken out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

70% of Britons identifies as Christian in the 2001 census.

I think that, as much as anything, it is because they can: Religion, or more importantly the freedoms protected by the constitution, has always been vital to american society and to practice it is an open expression that those vital ideals are still being adhered to.

After all, it was State Religion they were all escaping from in Britain, the Netherlands, France etc.

Quite ironic really! But then I also wonder what the founding fathers of America would make of it today given the state of the country today… Especially considering that as a certain act of defiance 10 years ago today proved, America has become the centre of any religious hatred for the entire world over, yet it was established as a country to be all encompassing! I would say that was ironic too, but I’m neither that stupid or insensitive.

EDIT
can’t be bothered as it’s obvious that religion and personal belief is the only thing you can be prejudiced about here

Haha, though you’ve forgotten the Orange 5, 29ers, fat bikes, what tyre etc though I’m afraid… 😉

Seriously though, religion is, was and always will be an effective way of controlling people who don’t question it, who want a better life for themselves and buy into the promises made, and those who like to think there is a higher purpose to life. Now we all know different religions have different methods of control, some stronger than others. What people chose to believe in is their own lookout, but if you don’t have the basic intelligence to even question your religion in the first place, well…

Me… Sundays are for mountain biking, or in summer the occasional game of cricket.

I think Church Attendance is a better indicator as people often claim to be things they’re not when asked – like honest, nice, conscientious etc. Then they get in their car, speed, jump red lights, use the phone, drop litter out the window etc…

But the US DOESN’T have a State Religion, in fact the Constitution effectively forbids it.

The problem is that some form of Christian belief is effectively mandatory for any prospective politician to garner votes. The American public may not all be religious fundamentalists but they are much more conservative in outlook than in the UK and Europe, this allows the fundamentalist fringe to swing voters who may otherwise not be interested in their message.

I’m not getting involved, but it’s clear that there are two sides to religous debate.

There’s the ‘nutters’, and there’s the ‘idiots’. `both sides will argue, get stressed and start shouting the odds.I’m of the opinion we should let everyone believe whatever they want to believe, and embrace their beliefs. WHo are we to ridicule?

Dawkins talks bollocks sometimes generally.

FTFY

Creationist views and charming folk like Sarah Palin dont help the perception.
😆 @ yunki

Americans – Why are they so religious?

God only knows.

Church attendance by country:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_chu_att-religion-church-attendance

UK 27%
US 44%

I assume 27% must include anybody who has attended church at least once in the last 5 years (including weddings and funerals). They are not exactly packing the punters in last time I looked in.

I think the real question is why do American religious fundamentalists obtain so much media exposure compared to other countries?
Why do these religious fundamentalists have so much disproportionate power compared to their numbers?

Guns are legal in America. I think that answers both questions.

But the US DOESN’T have a State Religion, in fact the Constitution effectively forbids it.

Absolutely, hence my quite ironic post… Perhaps should have qualified it by saying although there is no state religion and it is effectively banned, to get anywhere in the US, forget race, sex, upbringing or wealth, you need to be a practicing Christian and let everybody know that you are!

Forget Barrack Obama being the first black president being the big step in the right direction, when, if ever, will America have a president that is not a devout Christian, whatever religion (or not) they may have?

As far as I can see it’s time to get worried when they start growing beards.

Dawkins talks bollocks sometimes generally.
FTFY

Elfin, really? Surely you have the time to back that up…

Elfinsafety – Member
Dawkins talks bollocks sometimes generally.
FTFY

Thanks elfin, genuine mistake on my part. 😆

they also have something in their amendments about the right to arm bears, so it’s not just the god bothering/relative interfering/chinless/rednecks you have to worry about 😯

oh and IF JESUS LOVES AMERICA how come they have so many hurricanes, floods and paris hilton ?

One nonsensical statement by Dawkins please?

Oh come on elfin, countzero, qualify your anti Dawkins sentiment! I’m not a particular Dawkins fanboy, but previously the only people I’ve noticed refuting him have been somewhat on the zealotty side? You both seem relatively reasonable…

the Americans are so much more religious because they are far far closer to judgement day than the rest of the world ….. What a NUTTER

mmm… quite 8)

If by judgment day, he means the complete collapse of civilised society brought about by the ultimately unsustainable and ever widening rich poor divide, that is the product of a market driven (read; greed) near pure capitalist system, then he may have a point…

Just saying.